Nightjet Services To Amsterdam From Vienna & Innsbruck

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by driverwoods#1787, Jun 11, 2021.

  1. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Hi it's Driverwoods 1787 and I have a question about the Nightjet routing from Vienna and Innsbruck to Amsterdam CS. Can someone here answer this question as to why those sleeper trains run on Main Spessart Bahn Lohr-Aschaffenburg-Frankfurt Am Main instead of using Westbahn Salzburg Munich Railway HMA SMS Riedbahn? By having the Innsbruck-Amsterdam CS cars couple at Salzburg to the Vienna Amsterdam sleeper cars. Doing so they could arrive at 07:58-08:58 in Amsterdam CS from Vienna & Innsbruck Hbf. SMS is the abbreviation of Schnellfahrstrecke Stuttgart Mannheim. The website used is OBB Nightjet Amsterdam-Vienna/Innsbruck
    Maps
    Nightjet Main Spessart Bahn Section & Full route Amsterdam-Vienna/Innsbruck
    Screenshot (260).png Screenshot (261).png Screenshot (262).png
     
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  2. julia#6956

    julia#6956 New Member

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    Good question!
    My educated guess would be that Nuremberg is the place its most convenient to split and combine trains in the middle of the night, while being stopped. Keep in mind, Nightjets are long trains, usually combining trains to/from multiple destinations. For example, the Amsterdam sleeper is combined with the Hamburg and Brussels sleepers towards Innsbruck and Vienna. Its geographically the best spot to combine/ split up all those wagons, basically. Also those trains dont go much above 160 km/h (not sure wheter some of them actually hit 200 km/h) so they don't often go on high speed lines in Germany. Of course you could probably optimise the timetables, but you'd probably be delayed regularly and youd also make those trains more expensive because you'd need another loco to haul more seperate trains, and its not really that needed for a sleeper train to arrive that much earlier, in my opinion.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
  3. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Is that the reason why they avoid Schnellfahrstrecke Stuttgart Mannheim and the future Schnellfahrstrecke Stuttgart Ulm. Even though on the map above Schnellfahrstrecke Hannover Würzburg is used between Würzburg and Lohr via the connector line. Playing the Nightjet on Main Spessart Bahn Aschaffenburg-Lohr will be a Challenge because towards Nuremberg & Wien Hbf from Amsterdam Hamburg and Brussels via SKA you are going to encounter heavy freight services the 831xxx & DB 89xxx services. That means the ÖBB1116 Austrian DB BR182 will be held at Heigenbrücken and Laufach to let them through. However you're going to need a Banking locomotive attached on the back on the Return Trip from Amsterdam Hamburg and Brussels due to the length of the train and weight at Laufach.
     
  4. julia#6956

    julia#6956 New Member

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    pretty sure at that point a db br 101 would be pulling the train. they swap those out later for öbb 1116 (db br 182) later on. also on the stretch of track youre referring to its only the amsterdam, and on certain days the brussels part, the hamburg part joins up later towards vienna/innsbruck, at nuremberg. so it isnt that long a train yet (think 10-15 coaches), and im pretty sure even the 101 could handle it. I could maybe see DB putting two of the locos from the Amsterdam and Brussels sections in front if they were very concerned. Also the sleeper would still have priority over freight services, the freight services would be the ones waiting. I can see it being fun in Game though, provided the right Rolling stock would be available.
     
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  5. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    You do have a point there and
    In actual practice ÖBB1116 Nightjet sleeper service Wien Brussels and Innsbruck Amsterdam travels as a combined train to Köln. At Köln Hbf nightjet is split The Innsbruck Amsterdam has a Dutch NS BR193 which will go all the way to Amsterdam from Köln Hbf via Duisburg Oberhausen Arnhem Railway. The Brussels Nightjet becomes the 07:13 Köln Hbf 07:58-08:00 Schnellfahrstrecke Köln-Aachen train provided an ÖBB route gets built.
    Videos

     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2021
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  6. LodeStar

    LodeStar Member

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    Running services on highspeed lines is a lot more expensive than running on regular classic lines...it would make the journey too expensive to be cost-efficiënt! That is the only reason...
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2021
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  7. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the answer but these night jet services use Schnellfahrstrecke Hannover Wurzburg to Amsterdam from Wien & Innsbruck Hbf. Even SKA has one too via Main Spessart Bahn Aschaffenburg-Lohr and Schnellfahrstrecke Hannover Wurzburg connector to Lohr.
     
  8. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I'm fairly certain it's the other way round- freight would be held to let passenger trains by.

    As for helper engines at Laufach: a thing of the past, a new tunnel was opened in 2017 completely bypassing Heigenbrucken and the Spessart Ramp, and eliminating the need for banking.
     
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  9. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for telling me about this and I'm used to the United States and Canada practice of Freight Service first then passenger. Since Main Spessart Bahn was set before June 2017 when the long tunnels at Heigenbrücken were opened this combined nightjet Dusseldorf Wien Hbf/Innsbruck would have required the Banking locomotive attached due to it's weight which would have included car transporters Dusseldorf Wien Hbf/Innsbruck. This is likely seen at Aachen Hbf where the Nightjet Brussels Wien Hbf needs one since there is a steep ramp towards Belgium
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2021
  10. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Having travelled on the Wien Brussels sleeper last September I can confirm no banking locomotives were added at any point although at that time the service was only 1 sleeper, 2 couchettes and a standard/reclining seat coach.

    Regarding why nightjet dont use highspeed lines is because they dont need to travel at speed and the service was extremely well padded (for example 20 mins in Koln, 45 mins in Aachen) and although I dont know know for certain regarding German HS rail operations the vast majority of countries (UK, Japan, France & Italy certainly) have a complete shutdown of the highspeed lines overnight for maintenance and daily safety checks, Id imagine German would be the same?
     
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  11. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Certainly no need for a sleeper to rush, since there's no point in arriving at oh-dark-thirty.
     
  12. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for telling me and your train went via Aschaffenburg Laufach Heigenbrücken then the Schnellfahrstrecke Hannover Würzburg via Lohr Connector which was actually discussed in the forums. From what I read on a 2007 trip report by europeantraction DB City Nightline Hamburg-Paris via HRR and Aachen a DB BR232 was attached at Aachen Hbf for Ronheider Ramp Aachen Süd then a SNCB 22 at Liege for Steep grade at Ans.
     
  13. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Freight operators are obliged to give Amtrak priority whenever possible, otherwise they might risk getting fined.

    Of course we all know Amtrak in the US is not exactly like Moses splitting the whole freight traffic and have priority over everything, but it's not like it's Amtrak that gets stopped at every junction.

    The fact that freight always has priority over Amtrak always seemed a bit of an exaggeration, maybe pushed by Amtrak themselves, whenever something seems to go wrong to Amtrak the first thing that happens is everyone just jumps at the freight operators, it surely has an impact, but I'm 92% sure it's not as bad as Amtrak or popular opinion would lead you to believe.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2021
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  14. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    You are absolutely correct but in actual practice it ends up being a Freight Train first then Amtrak since Freight railroads ignore that rule of Amtrak trains first over freight trains was taken directly from this Amtrak blog. Apply that to Oakville Subdivision Canadian national most of the time you end up being ahead of Amtrak Maple Leaf. Apply the logic on the Amtrak blog on horseshoe curve dlc you're going to see it as Norfolk Southern freight train going first then Amtrak Pennsylvanian
     
  15. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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