Northeast Corridor Feedback Thread

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by Anthony Pecoraro, Jul 23, 2021.

  1. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    While I get what you're getting at, surely that just pushes part of the problem onto someone else, as Jamie (or other) would then be having to do all the camera work and show off all the toys on the cab and drive the thing as well, all they'll not be doing is speaking - I think that's where some of the issues, as far as driving is concerned, laid yesterday.
     
  2. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Dovetail doesnt have a partnered twitch account - so if I stream at 6k 60fps 1080p, there's a good chance it wont have transcoding and be largely unwatchable by some people. On my own streams I always stream at 60fps - but thats because im a twitch partner and know people can transcode to lower quality if they cant see it at full bitrate. System itself is fully capable, it's more about making it accessible to everyone. One of the downsides of streaming on multiple platforms - youtube can do it all the time, twitch can do it if you're a partner, and if you're multi streaming you cant be a twitch partner :)

    C'est la vie :)
     
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  3. Good point. If someone manages to steal a train IRL using TSW and it goes on the news, train operating companies will be even more reluctant to collaborate with game developers and we'll all be doomed, so guys, please behave yourselves.
     
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  4. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Nope, wasn't Amtrak - it is as straight forward as the team just didn't get to it. Honestly the cab signalling systems on these trains have commanded a LOT of time and attention.
     
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  5. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    But the NEC New York freight Locos has the ATC signal system.
    So why it’s not recycled for the Route?
     
  6. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Nope, they dont. Are you sure you're not confusing it with the TS1 NYNH CSX locos?
     
  7. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    It is pretty hard to steal a train :). *Usually* both the brake and reverser handles are removed from the console in most modern (post 1950) locomotives and are either locked in a cupboard on the train or they are issued to the engine driver at the depot. and returned afterwards.

    With the most modern locomotives you have to login to its computer and it will check that your training is current and that you're qualified to drive it before it will let you do it! Even if you did get it going the operator can shut it down remotely.

    It wouldn't be all that hard to steal an older locomotive, while you *should* go through a set procedure to make sure its ready for the day, someone intent on a joy ride isn't likely to care if it has enough oil, coolant, sand, etc. They're just going to gun it and go in the same way your average car thief is going to do it.

    It would be interesting to put a TSW trained person into a real loco training simulator and see how they do, I've seen where MS Flight Sim people have flown large passenger aircraft in a real training simulator well enough that they would live if they flew a real one.
     
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  8. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Outgoing bandwidth comes into it too... I've got enough to stream 2k at 60fps but if I actually did that my family would kill me because there would be none left for them :). Besides, according to YouTube Creator Program it seems most people still watch at 1080p so there's not that much point pushing it out at more than that.

    Paul
     
  9. Gae14

    Gae14 Active Member

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    One of the main things I look forward to when a route releases is it's accuracy compared to IRL. What stood out for me watching the stream was the fact that the no longer in use Pawtucket/ Central Falls station seems to be completely missing. I find it odd considering it could be considered as a 'landmark' of the route and it can't be missed either since you're going under it.

    The station itself 1024px-Pawtucket-Central_Falls_station_from_Barton_Street_(2),_August_2015.JPG

    I reckon it should have been right there
    Screenshot 2021-08-07 at 13-22-24 Train Sim World 2 Rush Hour Boston Sprinter Preview - YouTube.png
     
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  10. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

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    Gae14 I have seen DTG members referring to routes as dioramas which is different than a model layout that is meant to be true to life.
    With this in mind, no route that they made is true to life, and very likely that it will remain like this for upcoming routes as well.
     
  11. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    The build crew probably don't know about it since they're not locals and it wouldn't be on the route maps. I agree it would be like having major London landmarks missing from the Skyline of Bakerloo... oh wait they do ;)

    Paul
     
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  12. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    The trouble is we expect too much from the devs.
    Sure the routes could be more accurate, but are you willing to pay €100 per dlc which would only run on high end machines.
    Fortunately I’m acquainted with only a few of dtg’s routes in real life so I don’t feel the need to fret about minor accuracies or compromises.
    Happy to live with my illusions :)
     
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  13. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

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    It's ok to be complacent, absolutely ok.
    Keep in mind though that without enthusiasts and curious people we would still be riding horses to work, walk on muddy streets and probably need to carry a weapon to defend ourselves, if we survive to reach the age to carry a weapon.

    Games can surprise you. Some are fantastic, some disappoint. Do you why does this one disappoint? Because TS is still better than it in certain areas and TSW was supposed to be the evolution. This is not something expected by the players, is something the developer states publicly.

    Almost all decisions they take are out of convenience. Never for passion, commitment, love or to match the product description.
     
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  14. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I must admit I find myself goi g back to a ten year old game still at times. It pains me but the scenarios just seem a bit better
     
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  15. kevin.charb81

    kevin.charb81 Well-Known Member

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    Understandable of the limitations when streaming live. How about a short service 15-20 mins pre recorded with performance cranked up so we get a feel for the full potential?

    You guys could speak over it and answer questions from the chat as we get to see the game run at its best, or upload it separately.
     
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  16. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I don't expect complete accuracy from a SIM that costs less than $30 ( or $10 in this case), just a decent representation of the landscape and cityscape of the route. I've been to Boston many times, lived near it in fact, but I still couldn't tell you how accurate the skyline is in the route. It doesn't much matter to me. On the other hand, people who live in Boston or it's environs would miss such a memorable landmark as Pawtucket/Central Falls. There's a closed station near where I live and, if DTG modeled that line (very unlikely) and omitted that station, it would feel very strange to me. So it depends on your point of view. But in the end it's a simulation not a movie or photograph of reality.
     
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  17. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    The general feel and some key landmarks are always welcome. The first one is more important to me - I don't live near the existing TSW routes :) It usually meets my expectations. The upcoming DLC, set in winter scenery, stimulates my imagination a lot.
     
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  18. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Plainly you don't live in Detroit or Oakland
     
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  19. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

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    Simulation - the act of imitating the behavior of some situation or some process by means of something suitably analogous (especially for the purpose of study or personnel training)
    A simulator is a near-perfect replica of reality which is something this game is too far from and does not set the premises to get closer to it either.
    It is a casual train driving game, as much as this will upset people.
    I'm not after a simulator, I don't think it is a fun experience gaming-wise, but when you start building a route in an era you choose to do the homework and research properly, allocate resources and create it faithfully.
    How many times we've seen "Guys, we've finished the planned route ahead of time and we decided to add some extra features as we had time until launch to give you something extra to enjoy"?
    How many times we've seen "We have to deliver the route with fewer features than promised for running out of time"?

    solicitr I was referring to a long-gone era and no, I don't live in the US actually. :)
     
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  20. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    As I said before in the specific context of Riesa-Dresden, DTG desperately need to re-examine their project resource allocation. Their dev man-hour requirements crystal ball is cracked.
     
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  21. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    I used to live in Oakland. I never had any problems :).
     
  22. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    No need to give Detroit a bad rap either. I was there recently, just before the pandemic, and I found it to be a unique city. The downtown is one of the best I've seen and there's lots of history there. Sure, like any city in the world, there are areas you should avoid, but I never felt uncomfortable.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2021
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  23. epsilonniner#1403

    epsilonniner#1403 New Member

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    I have never been on a MBTA train irl, does the F40PH operate the same as Caltrain's?
     
  24. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Would definitely like to understand this more so we can improve the scenarios!
     
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  25. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    We need a burning Loco that we bring back to the Yards.
     
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  26. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Hi TrainSim-Matt

    It's a weird one to put my finger on. I think there's potentially a couple of things at play here. I've used ECML a lot and I'll be honest an element of it will be familiarity running the PBO-KGX journey for years. It's like doing the commute still during the pandemic. That's going to be a draw

    I think the second thing is they just seem a little better written, small things like stopping to pick up a guard etc. I've always wondered whether the scenarios could be more interactive, dynamic even in that if I achieve objective A this happens, If I do B then I get a failure on the train or I have to be diverted onto a harder, slower line for example. Appreciate there is a lot of work in that.

    It could be down to the way the briefing is delivered at the beginning of the run on TS , even if it is similar to TSW, might be the big grey box I need to click past to begin which sets the scene.

    There's been some really good scenario in both games but curveballs would be good, can they be more interactive in anyway in addition to here is your schedule to adhere too? Its a hard one knowing a lot of driving is a-b so perhaps some failures, line issues, little more story telling in them.

    Appreciate you asking the question, hope that helps a bit?
     
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  27. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    I'm always interested to hear when people say they find content in TS1 more engaging than TSW because it means we can learn something to help improve TSW that perhaps we've forgotten or dropped back on.

    Looking at your points:

    Looks like a clear favourite of a route there with the KGX/PBO line! We don't have that in TSW and probably not much like it at the moment, closes would be SEHS but that's still not the same beast as the ECML. Until there's an ECML - there's not much I can do about this issue though really :)

    Stopping to pick up a guard etc - we've thought about putting that stuff in, but where as in TS1 you really can't add dynamic assets and therefore the lack of them is really not a problem, having you do something in TSW and then having no visual match for it seems more out of balance. We do have something similar though - in Cathcart circle there's a scenario where you have to pick up another train and its operator, who is on the platform when you get there and then he jumps in the back cab as you reverse the train out to guide you.

    Dynamic variation would be ace but... really quite difficult at the moment and can't be done in either sim.

    The briefing at the front - we added this in to TSW to provide more context on services, and use the VO subtitle prompts in Scenarios to provide more context there. Are you thinking that perhaps the initial pop up briefing would be good for scenarios also perhaps?

    If you see a scenario in TS1 that you think exemplifies your points by all means point it out to me, and equally if you see something on TSW where you're either thinking "yes more of that!" or "here would have been a great place to do X or Y to make it feel more real" - ping me a note :)

    Same for anyone - I am wide open for gameplay feedback! (well, anything really but we're talking gameplay here ;) )
     
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  28. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    What really makes scenarios great for me is a combination of two factors, story telling and uniqueness compared to the timetable services.

    Story telling can be quite great, and I recall playing a scenario (on RSN or MSB, can't remember out of the top of my head), where you had to be diverted, as another train in front of you had to stop for a fallen tree, but you only got to hear so last minute. That also ticks the second box, uniqueness compared to the timetable services.

    Many of the more recent scenarios are very much like the timetable services, but sometimes with switching cabs (so just two timetable services stitches together), or adverse weather conditions. Personally I don't find these scenarios particularily interesting, as aside from the text popups, I could do the same with timetable services.

    However, there are many scenarios that do have a really unique element. Dealing with broken down trains in front of you, or like on HHL, towing another broken down train, or like with the 363, coupling wagons to an incoming train. These are all things you really can't do in the timetable, so it makes a scenario a lot more interesting to me. The more unusual, the more unrealistic. Many more things, like having to slow down for a broken crossing gate or being diverted due to track works could be really interesting.

    Having a bit of stabling or shunting included also makes it feel a bit more like a 'full experience', but this might make the scenarios too long for certain players (although I'd love it). Taking the HHL scenario where you drag a broken down train for example, if you had to shunt that broken train into the yard backwards (with some text from another railway employee at the rear of the train, like on the LGV scenario) and than uncouple and stable your own locomotive, that would add even more.

    Having some unique scenery, like workmen around the tracks near a broken down train, fallen trees or just around the yard also helps scenarios to feel more interesting to me.

    I hope some of this feedback helps, but maybe it's a good idea to start a new thread where people can talk about the scenarios they like, and give feedback as to why they're fun.
     
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  29. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    TrainSim-Matt
    How about a ICE 1 scenario to change the Head and drive without the Waggons like on this photo.
    upload_2021-8-9_23-1-46.jpeg
     
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  30. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Can more be done in the yards.

    what about some start ups like these where part of the battle is getting it running? Loads of smoke and flames, maybe a real cold start for hardcore players and option to turn prompts on if needed.



    washing train by hand with a hose perhaps for weathered ones.
    Driver walkarounds

    I think as per above it’s making them more unique than just weather (unless it’s flooded lines or fallen items)
     
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  31. stijn.claessens

    stijn.claessens Active Member

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    I'm more a tsw player than ts now because i like the 24h timetable.
    But the best scenario's are the ones where you do a cold start. Drive into the station or pick up wagons and then get going.
     
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  32. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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  33. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Yes, fully bringing a train into service would be really fun, as it is also more like real life.
     
  34. dcnine#5410

    dcnine#5410 Well-Known Member

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    I recall one of the 101 scenarios was really enjoyable- in it you had to go to Bochum in bad weather, while getting reports from the signaller to watch out and such. Then, when you arrive at Bochum, you get a text telling you that the line is closed, and you will have to take the S-Bahn line with your next train. The signaller then fills you in more when you get back in the cab, and you drive your IC on the S-Bahn. This does a couple things well: 1) uses the text box to give good exposition for the scenario, and 2) provides a very different experience from timetable mode.
     
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  35. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    There was a scenario I liked on TS21 on the Hudson Line route. Severe snowfall had closed the line and you were one of the only trains to get through. There were lots of speed restrictions and workers were also on the track looking to clear the snow.
     
  36. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I agree with what everyone else is saying here. Another TSW scenario I felt was great was on RRO. While driving a double headed train, one loco develops a malfunction on the way. You have to re-power your loco on the move and later shunt the malfunctioning loco to a siding in a yard. That scenario was great - a malfuntion is something that just doesn‘t happen in service mode but it‘s great to have to deal with.


    That was really good. Fantastic scenario :)
     
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  37. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    I just like things that are unusual. Face it, service mode is basically a job that does nothing productive and you don't get paid for. Interesting uncommon things that are like real life are fun.
     
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  38. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    What maybe could be added: If you do a scenario with scenario planner, there could be the possibility to write a briefing text by yourself, which then appears in front of you as soon as you start the scenario. This could be a major improvement, especially for the PC community who like to share their scenarios with other people. As there is no arrival time in the selfmade scenarios, the author of the scenario could write the arrival times into that briefing text (as many people do in TS-scenarios).

    You could also then give additions infos like the PZB-mode to use; if there's a train in front of you; if you have to stop at a certain point etc. etc. etc.

    This would be a very cool addition to scenario planner 2.0. I hope this can be looked into, as we're still far away from scenario planner 2.0 :)
     
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  39. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    I recall there is a marshalling instruction in TS1 that is not yet present in TSW, this would be a good addition. The TSW scenario I really enjoyed was on NTP and called Red Bank Rotation.

    In general scenarios where there are some empty stock that you need to shuffle and arrange for another service to pick up is always an enjoyable change from driving from A to B. I think the 363 might have a scenario where you prepare a rake of Dostos and that is the only time you can couple and uncouple them? But then there isn't another service that comes along as a light loco and picks them up. Putting these elements in and joining them up would be great. In general being able to uncouple and re-couple everything even MUs would be great.

    Finally, on SEHS I encountered at Gillingham a 375 sat idling in the sidings and it wasn't due to depart for its next service for about 5 hours. I would like to have to shut it down when putting it there and then later start it up again in order to be more realistic, but I believe the AI don't currently know how to do this which is why they are left running?
     
  40. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    This is all great feedback, keep it coming :)
     
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  41. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Could random incidents happen in the scenarios. There’s a few shopping services. What if it random popped up that passengers were rowdy, you have to use the radio to call ahead and then you see the police go on and collect and remove passenger.
    It’s the random unknown bits that aren’t scripted I’d love to see .
     
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  42. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Matt, I have a question. Do the Amfleets in this route have brake sounds? I didn't hear any on stream.
    Here is what they should sound like:
     
  43. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    For better Scenarios we need also longer routes and more different Trains with all the Yards and Depots included a Werkstatt with is open like the ICE München Werk
     
  44. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Relevant for me:

    - plot context, some introduction (more than now)
    - the beginning and end of the task outside the train cabin (increases immersion)
    - more dioramas
    - more custom scenery elements, e.g. MOW equipment, railway workers
    - more interactions (even simple ones) like talking to a dispatcher in one of the CC scenarios (simple 'press E' was more fun)
    - more spoken lines (there used to be some in the SPG)
    - higher difficulty level (medals, well-thought-out scoring)
    - variable weather conditions
    - unusual gameplay elements (e.g. custom speed limits)
    - prototypical inspirations
    - non-linear task model (e.g. set the wagons on that track, without detailed instructions on how to do it, step by step - switches)
    - etc, BR o7
     
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  45. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Plot context is a really good point breblimator - if you want immersion you need to understand why you are doing something. I really like the ones like take this Gronk and go fetch this broken down train. Interaction with NPC's is really good too - I very much like that one on Cathcart where the second person jumps in to help.

    It would be great if your second person would get up to operate switches to throw over the points.

    A scenario element that kills realism for me - without a second person giving hand signals or radio calls there is not a chance in hell that a driver is going to reverse a train a any distance - yet so many scenarios want us to do this - please change ends instead of reversing!!
     
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  46. Luke8899

    Luke8899 Well-Known Member

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    The worst scenarios are those which are effectively 'Run a timetable service... But in bad weather!', less of those please!

    Engaging scenarios have a story, some context that means this is not a normal A-B run, and events along the way that confirm how different it is from a normal timetable run, be that a diversion onto another track, more passengers at a particular station, having to couple up to another train, dynamic weather, etc. These things instantly make the game more engaging and create immersion. Similarly things like starting from outside the loco and having to go and fire it up from scratch, or having to refuel or shut it down. As I remember NTP was quite good for scenarios, and the heavy freight pack, there was a lot of back and forth and contextual information and it at times felt very immersive.

    Something else good might be an 'advanced' scenario toggle, where you can select a check box to receive minimal instructions, so virtually no on-screen prompts or instructions on where to go (you might be able to do this now but only by changing the master settings and therefore applying it to the whole game). It would be good to have a story introduced with context, and then instructions given assuming you are a driver and know where to go to get your loco and where to contact the signaler, and where to go to reach the objective etc, without having markers for them.
     
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  47. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    And that one, yes, that was so good \o/
     
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  48. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Doesn’t need to be complicated.
    Now and again we finish our route, then check all the carriages to ensure they are empty, before running it back to the service siding and shutting down.
    Again randomly starting in the service siding before using the train wash and beginning the normal route.

    Not every time but every fifth or sixth run.
    It’s the small variations that are important.
     
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  49. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Since you have thought of small dioramas.
    How about occasionally having an inspector in the cab for a check ride :)
     
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  50. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    I have an idea for an upcoming London Commuter (BML) scenario, admittedly this maybe too late to implement, but how about a New Year-themed scenario? With London one of the most popular cities globally to attend NYE celebrations, would be great to have a busy, full timetable between Brighton-Victoria around 11pm to 2am. This would be something completely unique to the timetable mode, which is normally empty this time of night.
     
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