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Ns Pittsburgh Line: Altoona To Johnstown

Discussion in 'Route Suggestions & Proposals' started by Cold Warrior, Sep 12, 2019.

  1. Cold Warrior

    Cold Warrior New Member

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    The famous Pittsburgh Line now days owned and operated by the Norfolk Southern Railroad. The entire historic Pittsburgh Line runs between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh Pennsylvania. The famous Pennsylvania Railroad started the route in 1846 and completed in 1854. The route was on by the Pennsylvania Railroad until 1968. When Pennsylvania and New York Central merged into the Penn Central who own it until it's bankruptcy 1976. From 1976 to 1999 it became part Conrail. In 1999 the Pittsburgh Line became part the Norfolk Southern Railroad who still owns it today.

    The Altoona to Johnstown portion I suggested should be short enough to include in TSW. This rural mountainous portion of the route is filled with steep grades, sharp curves, and some famous landmarks. Including the famous Horseshoe Curve and Gallitzin Tunnels. The less famous Bennington Curve site of the infamous Red Arrow Train Wreck in 1947.

    This route an average 70 trains a day. Most is Norfolk Southern freight service. With 1 only Amtrak passenger train each duration a day.
     
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  2. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I would also love this route. It would be fun to be the role of the SD40E helpers pushing trains up from Altoona.
     
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  3. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I want to make this post active again. This route would be great for TSW due to the variety of activities to do on the route. It has heavy freight, helpers (pusher locomotives), yard switching, and (although extremely limited) passenger services. Plus various places to railfan from.
    I would enjoy the challenge of taking the big heavy Norfolk Southern trains up and down the steep grades.
    I also feel that NS needs it’s turn in TSW.
     
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  4. jedi247

    jedi247 Well-Known Member

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    NS is cool, but I'd like the route set in the 1950s with PRR steam and early diesel or maybe in the 70s-90s with Conrail.
     
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  5. elyonpc

    elyonpc Member

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    Then basically, you want the Horseshoe Curve made for TSW?
     
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  6. Big Papi34

    Big Papi34 Well-Known Member

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    The horseshoe curve IS ON the Pittsburgh line. It says so in the thread. That's the point of the thread is to get the HSC and rest of the line made.
     
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  7. Big Papi34

    Big Papi34 Well-Known Member

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    I 110% agree with this. To bad TSW (or really any train simulator) doesn't have realistic derail functions. The back to back centerbeam incidents would be a perfect scenario.
     
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  8. brodeyness4

    brodeyness4 New Member

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    Awesome Idea, keep pitching it at them every month or so that away they keep seeing this idea
     
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  9. NSMotherSlug#881

    NSMotherSlug#881 Member

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    You understand that there's NO STEAM Locomotives in game so how would that happen,guess you didn't think of that.and as far as Steam Loco's DTG hasn't spoken anything as of when they will add Steam in pointless to say 1950's Steam then
     
  10. NSMotherSlug#881

    NSMotherSlug#881 Member

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    Love the idea I first posted the same idea back in 2017 for 3 months and never got and answer back ever,the only problem with making a scenario as a Helper being a Pusher on the rear of the train is it really wouldn't work do to how its done in real life.You understand the lead Locomotive talks to the rear Helper Locomotive the whole time there pushing or using there brakes down grade on radio so the Helper knows what the Lead Locomotive is doing at all times.Now with knowing that that's why I honestly don't see that happening like comeon DTG can't even give us players real to life working Railroad crossing gates or even road traffic.
     
  11. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    They have road traffic now. ;)
     
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  12. Big Papi34

    Big Papi34 Well-Known Member

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    That's the point of the suggestion. So they could make it. "You do realize there were no diesel engines until train sim sim world released." See how dumb it sounds.
     
  13. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, and BNSF as well, since the only freight trains seen in tsw are UP and CSX
     
  14. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    There is a problem with that. DTG can’t sell content with BNSF outside of the United States.
     
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  15. zsmonostori80

    zsmonostori80 New Member

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    Too short. It is very, very annoying how developers get away with less and less content, Give them a run for their money - our hard-earned money - and do demand longer routes! It is ridiculous how sub-40 mile routes have become tolerated by the community! I find it outright shameful.

    While to route OP mentioned is a nice one, a great suggestion - Horseshoe Curve certainly has to be featured in TSW at some point - I would want it from either from Pittsburgh to Altoona or from Johnstown to Enola Yard.

    Bought TSW earlier this morning, decided to give it a chance. While the game itself looks promising, it is devastating how laughably short the featured routes are. Wish there was a decent competition to DTG, shaking up the genre. If the trend continues, routes will be ever shorter until eventually, developers will release single station add-on "routes" that feature a line section from the entry to the exit signal with one station in between, and the users will even clap their hands to them.

    I call on Dovetail to develop longer routes, even if it takes more time to build. Short routes where you need to terminate your "journey" at unrealistic locations, often in unrealistic ways are total immersion killers.
     
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  16. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    TSW routes take longer to make than TS routes. They have deadlines to have the DLC done. As they get more efficient, then the routes will probably get longer.
     
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  17. zsmonostori80

    zsmonostori80 New Member

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    More recently even TS routes developed by DTG have gotten shorter and shorter. Which makes sense from a business point of view, who wouldn't want the same profit for less work? But it's not necessarily ethical and especially does make the game less interesting, especially to those who really got hooked up by the "simulator" in the brand name. Obviously one cannot expect the developer to model hundreds of miles of railroads on every occasion but sub-50 mile route sections (unless it's a shortline modelled in full) are pretty annoying. A prime example from Train Simulator is the Semmeringbahn. DTG released this 40 km (25) miles of ridiculous offering a while ago. The least I would expect is that this route starts at Wiener Neustad or even better, Wien Hbf. (Vienna) itself, ending in Mürzzuschlag, but preferably in Bruck an der Mur. But starting in a middle-of-nowhere village such as Gloggnitz is a spit in the eye. You can't simulate operations realistically this way, most trains don' even stop in Gloggnitz, just rush through it. So what options do you have? Spawn into the game as a running start or simulate waiting at a red light or come up with some silly story to explain away why you pick up your train at Gloggnitz where under normal circumstances a train would not even blink. The whole TS is full of routes like this, starting and ending points that make no sense. I would expect modelled line sections recreate actual crew change points on both ends. This should be the norm. For the sake of simulation. Because this is supposed to be a simulator. Isn't it? Instead, we have pretty menus, pathetic railfan modes (joke of the century) and other nonsense, meanwhile switches still do disappear like 10 years ago, or consists bounce when you approach them with your train.

    Today I decided to give TSW a try although I promised myself I won't support this company anymore. I was actually very glad when they decided to cancel their intentions entering (and degrading) the flight sim market by spamming it with low quality, rushed, quick-cash thrash. Nevertheless, my first impression of TSW is quite positive. But since I know it's DTG behind I am very careful and for a good reason. Overall, I find TSW very enjoyable, having spent the majority of today on it. Visually it is pretty decent although the untextured distant scenery (mountains) is still very ugly. I'd expect much better distant scenery rendition, more objects in the faraway distance. But it's a new toy, hopefully, improvements are to come. I found the 40-car US coal train consist unrealistic too in one of the timetable runs. 100+ cars would make more sense. Simulation, right? I couldn't make the wheels slip. Seems like wheel slip is not in the game yet. Or maybe it is there but I just did not encounter it? Snow cover is nice, but as you reduce snow cover in winter using the slider, instead of getting leafless trees, you end up with green summer foliage. Not all trees in the Pennsylvanian TSW route (Sandpatch) are evergreen as one can easily notice, and those should lose their foliage in the autumn. Therefore, in winter seasons, if you remove snow, you should have the evergreen trees without snow cover and the rest with no foliage whatsoever. Instead, they still have their leaves on, the only thing that changes that they turn white. Not good enough. But again, as it is a relatively new game, I am optimistic that it will be improved on. Things such as scenario and route editor are sorely missed too. On the positive side, I found that the locomotives and their features are more consistent, unlike in TS where one locomotive has ditch lights modelled, the other does not. Here, the three US locomotives are pretty equal in terms of modelled features. Also, I like the way how one can interact with stuff such as climb up and down the ladder, open doors, and walk around. Nice. Also, I do like the schedule mode. I believe there is definitely hope, that one day this may be a decent train simulator but DTG needs to seek ways to improve the very core, and not the menus and screenshot-taking features, really. Would love to see smart AI trains that know how to act when a player train or another AI comes their way, I would love to see precise speed limits, not the usual mess where speed limits change with no warning whatsoever (typical rushed DTG thing, especially on their German TS routes), I would love to see hump yards (maybe already available, didn't check yet), would love to see a more dynamic environment with more variables because right now if you do a certain run once, it will be the same always. Weather, that changes by itself according to the season and interacts with the track and train. Wildlife and people that occasionally step onto the tracks forcing you to use your horn like crazy or even apply the emergency brake or collision may happen (just please leave me alone with the pathetic political correctness that it's not nice to simulate accidents). Even the prehistoric finding MSTS had these in a simple yet interesting form. There are so many ways to make it a lasting and enjoyable train driving experience. I believe TSW is built on a solid foundation and is a surprisingly good platform, didn't expect this from DTG. Let's hope they won't mess up, and finally return to the roots, where the key is simulation.

    But routes need to be longer. Sure it takes effort to build them but remember, they have tools that automate scenery object placing and many assets are already available so it is not a good enough reason to rule out longer routes. I would say 100-mile should be the norm with real-world shortlines obviously are fine or routes that start and end at actual crew change point even if shorter than 100 miles. The TSW Sandpatch route should have been build all the way to Connelsville, which is the western crew change point. Instead, DTG made it to Rockwood, a middle-of-nowhere place halfway through, where thru trains don't even blink, let alone stop.

    Anyways, I give them a chance with this new sim, let's see how things develop with the coming releases.

    Happy new year to all of you!
     
  18. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    The trains in CSX Heavy Haul all have unloaded weights. Trains aren’t longer because they would cause the sim to lag too much. The tree issue is a bug that DTG is aware of.
     
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  19. zsmonostori80

    zsmonostori80 New Member

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    Do you mean DTG knows that trees in winter do not lose their foliage? That is a good sign if they acknowledged this. Fingers crossed, a fix will come shortly...
    As for the long trains, weights and lag, they should find a way to get these sorted. While I do understand there are limitations, I can't help but think of FSX or Prepar3D (flight simulators) where there are obstacles and limitations pretty much anywhere you look given a 15+ years old engine yet 3rd parties managed to come up with workaround and develop unbelievable stuff and trust me, flight simulation with all its complexity is a much more demanding territory. I don't want to compare the two though, just want to highlight that this is why there are developers, to develop, to pioneer new ways and get things fixed. If too many cars cause lag, find a way for them not to cause lag. But if it is a simulator - which it wants to be and this is how it's marketed - then a US coal train that usually consists of 120+ cars should not be set up with a laughable 40 cars. Otherwise, we cannot call the game ready. And if a game is not ready, then it should not be released. The problem is the target audience though. People accept whatever crap they are offered and even clap their hands for the "generosity" that they are given. This is not right. There has to be a quality standard and it is not only about how it looks but should involve every possible aspect of the product.
    Anyways, just finished my 3rf full run on the Sandpatch route and I have to admit I do like it, despite its shortcomings. It is visually great and I can see this as the future of train simulation, but only if DTG is willing to change their attitude when it comes to quality. Let's see what tomorrow brings.

    I'd love to see the missing half of this CSX route from Rockwood to Connelsville so that the two bits combined would give us the crew change points in both ends, and then we could truly simulate operations on the line.
     
  20. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Matt knows about the trees. It has to do with the dates in timetable mode.
     
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  21. zsmonostori80

    zsmonostori80 New Member

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    This makes sense. When DTG created the timetable "scenarios" they probably also set a date for each of them. Just because we change the season in and add snow, they preset date is still probably unchanged from what they initially chose. So basically what we need here is the option to set the actual date for a given scheduled run or something like this. Anyways, it's definitely positive that DTG are aware of it and acknowledged the problem.
     
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  22. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    Well, why can't DTG do the same thing with what they did with Maria's Pass, and the new Montana route: make the logo show only for US customers? Also the same with NS?
     
  23. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    People don’t want unbranded content.
     
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  24. NSMotherSlug#881

    NSMotherSlug#881 Member

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    WOW that's your come back lol so I guess dovetail should have made a walking the rails simulator then lol
     
  25. NSMotherSlug#881

    NSMotherSlug#881 Member

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    All I can say at this point is I just stopped playing TSW uninstalled it done for now because it's the same thing over and over go from point A to point B call's for some boring gameplay. I mean its called Train Simulator world " Simulator " what part because besides the timetable there's No sim in this game. I mean you can turn on the heater or air in cabs on they do nothing pointless interactions, when they should make a difference to the atmosphere in your cab,which shows the cabs have No atmosphere like come-on flight sim has atmosphere in there cockpits, everyone turns on there heater in the winter to stay warm and defrost there windows but not DTGs lol really.

    That's just like in CSX Heavy Haul lets put a hump yard in but lets Not make it work No brake retarders like wtf DTG.

    There are more things you can find wrong with a game that call's itself a simulator than good things SAD I call that.

    I honestly don't care anymore done with it you'd be a sucker if you think its going to get better thinking DTG will add the editor or multiplayer that they told everybody that played the beta to the game. Yeah the editor that they showed off a year ago but yet still know were to be seen in game, that should tell you something about DTGs
     
  26. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    You can use the hump. It is possible. ;)
     
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  27. Big Papi34

    Big Papi34 Well-Known Member

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    What that I said that the point of a suggestion is so they will look over it? Also, what's your definition of"sim". You want to be able to use the toilet while on an iPhone while your trains sitting idle lol.
     
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  28. NSMotherSlug#881

    NSMotherSlug#881 Member

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    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
  29. Big Papi34

    Big Papi34 Well-Known Member

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    Make my day lol. I ain't had a good fight in a while.
     
  30. Big Papi34

    Big Papi34 Well-Known Member

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    I have a feeling this is the next route.
     
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  31. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    What makes you think that? I know Matt was talking about American freight action in TSW on discord (hence another thread), but there are so many options, not just the rail giants UP, BNSF. CSX, and NS, but many class 2s and short lines (Montana Rail-Link, FEC, etc.)
     
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  32. awstasch

    awstasch New Member

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    The Altoona to Johnstown route would be great as I believe one of the most iconic portions of the American east coast rail lines in the Horseshow Curve. With a rail yard near Altoona - lots of Norfolk Southern scenarios are available.

    Longer routes would be great too. And a natural termination like Harrisburg makes sense for a passenger focused route (Amtrak Keystone Service) Harrisburg to 30th Street in Philly is 104 miles with several stretches at 100+ mph.
     
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  33. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    That’s too long.
     
  34. awstasch

    awstasch New Member

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    Easily
    Broken up into sections on several updates (2 or 3) would be just fine with me. Lancaster as a mid point would just about 1/2 the effort. I say make the entire route the ultimate goal and phase it in. As others have suggested 100 miles is not so unreasonable.
     
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  35. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    It would be really expensive...
     

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