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Opinions Of The Tsw2 Q&a Stream...

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by Ben_Broomfield, Jun 11, 2020.

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  1. Ben_Broomfield

    Ben_Broomfield Active Member

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    First off, hats off to Sam. I appreciate the more ‘stricter’ approach to the responses on the stream. More straight to the point & less of the pointless waffle we normally hear from DTG. In my opinion, your so far being a brill Community Manager and it’s what we’ve been needing for a while!

    Anyway, I’ll cut to the chase and say I’m pretty damn disappointed by the responses in the stream.

    I though, appreciate the transparency (It’s what we’ve needed for a while, instead of being lead on this long winding road); TSW2 at the moment (in my eyes) is just a new engine upgrade, plus 2 new routes. No real game changing features at all, that some of us where expecting from this “NEW” game. Most the “no” answers sounded or conveyed the impression as if DTG either can’t be bothered, in all honesty. Especially after the years of content that is inconsistent.

    But, if this engine ‘upgrade’ does mean we get higher, consistent quality content as a result from now on, then I’ll be happy. If not, then this (in my eyes) ain’t the future of Train Simulation. It’s the lack of proper, decent features in TS2 that indicate no substantial progress has been made, again.

    And I hate to say that.

    But it’s the first Q&A out of many to come, so I can’t criticise too much without seeing anything. Although what I saw today was quite disappointing and has given me second thoughts on TS2.

    Again, I think Sam’s manner & strict approach is a step in the right direction for DTG. I personally wanna see more of that.
     
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  2. c.b.gonzalez

    c.b.gonzalez New Member

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    Really disappointing, indeed. The worst part, to me, is their "one size must fit all" approach to PC vs consoles (this was used, for example, to justify that the scenario and livery editors won´t be able to generate shareable content).
     
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  3. Ben_Broomfield

    Ben_Broomfield Active Member

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    Agree indeed!

    I think DTG have fully restricted themselves and the players by doing the idea that ‘one size fits all’ thing. That’s why (to me) it feels like a arcade game and not a simulator. Because the standard/quality ain’t there due to them having to be ‘fair’ to every platform - where in reality it’s just killing the game. But that’s just my opinion...
     
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  4. Amtrak131

    Amtrak131 Active Member

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    I think we will never get the editor simply because the consoles could never get them and that won't be viewed as fair to the others and to the point of "One size fits all", and everyone should be on equal footing.

    I like the honesty, and the answers were hard to hear but to its one of those wait and see moments. Watching the gameplay may change mind's about the direction. I'm going to toss my preserved collection. Its useless if I'm getting a new game which the new features can't be access. I don't have any routes from TSW2020 that I want to hold onto. Just mad they don't get upgrades. Hopefully with TSW2 content they will be upgraded as the game progresses.
     
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  5. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Yeah they basically said "we want to make things consistent", so they made everything consistently bad. Anyone remembers the part where they said they removed the animated and working level crossings even from the only route that had them, so it's finally consistent with the rest of the routes?
     
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  6. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Guest

    Im hoping that the next iteration of TSW will be targeted at the next generation of consoles (although that may well be a forlorn hope given where we are coming from)..
     
  7. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

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    But that wouldn't be fair on current console owners and DTG is all about fairness to all communities. /s
     
  8. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Guest

    Ahh yeah, I'd forgotten about being inclusive ;p
     
  9. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    This wouldn't bring the features people want. A full editor, ability to share content and scenarios... The limit isn't the hardware it's the policies of the console makers who restrict such things. No problem on PC of course, but DTG has stated (for ages) that they want the experience of TSW to be equal on all platforms

    So yeah it should be platform optimised as far as graphics and glitches etc are concnerned, but the people used to TSx and PC modding are always going to be let down by TSW given the restrictions of Sony and or MS
     
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  10. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Guest

    Completely agree. I'm a pc user myself but unfortunately this seems to be the reality in which we find ourselves. In that context next gen consoles is the hope, if not the new reality that will unfold.
     
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  11. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I'd of liked Sam to have pushed Matt a bit further as to why most of the answers were 'No'.

    Take P.I.S. for example I'd of really pushed him, like 'OK, is this because of a technical issue, time limits?", afterall you said assets were in place on the original GWE for TSW and that it had just missed release, along with ATP for the HST by the way"

    I turned off the stream in disgust of pure let down after an hour, was anything mentioned about the possibilities of route extensions in TSW2?
     
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  12. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Community Manager Staff Member

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    If we'd asked why each no was a no you'd have taken away a different perspective and been more optimistic. This is not what we were trying to achieve, we wanted to give you total clarity of what is and what is not.
     
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  13. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough, you did a very good job BTW.
     
  14. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Stream would've been six hours rather then one lol
    I'm actually quite surprised at this one as it doesn't seem to be the hardest thing to get working to some extent, especially as the possible endpoints are somewhat known when they release the routes / trains etc and it's an animated texture after all
    I was pointed out twice on routes specifically that there will be more streams, and at least one is going to be dedicated to routes, why routes were chosen, etc etc. So not specifically extensions, but yes on more info on routes generally, but later
     
  15. Ben_Broomfield

    Ben_Broomfield Active Member

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    As I said, I do appreciate the clarity Sam. It makes a real change indeed and I think having you in the community will get us somewhere.

    But just because we had a “no”, in a way, it sounded like you can’t be bothered. If there was a reason - like a genuine proper reason for why you can’t to such & such then I’d be more understanding, but it was just a No. Which to me i just have to interpret as you can’t be bothered, given the attitude towards TSW content quality & it’s support and TSW2 ‘new’ features/improvements etc.

    I can understand why you decided to say no, to stop people thinking otherwise - but for me as a member of the community since the original Railworks, just isn’t good enough. And it questions more on ‘why’ you can’t do it.

    That’s all. I’d rather have the proper answers to why it can be done now, than having to interpret. But that’s just my opinion...
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
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  16. ZR Leigh

    ZR Leigh New Member

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    I appreciated the honesty and clarity of yes/no answers but think that at times it felt like Matt was being given a row by the headmaster for saying maybe. It’s clear that Matt is very passionate about TSW and it’s future and wants to put everything into it.

    I’m sure some of the smaller things that were given a no answer yesterday may become a yes in future.
     
  17. BigMountain555

    BigMountain555 Well-Known Member

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    I thought the stream was great. CF was direct with his responses to the same old questions. It really did come across as much more open and transparent.. avoiding answers that may lead some to believe things that may or may not happen are definately happening. Good turn of events. Yes and no are better than maybe... too many people take maybe to mean yes and then hound and hound and hound the person who said maybe.
     
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  18. Typhomat

    Typhomat Well-Known Member

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    The stream to me was great, and changed some of my perspectives of things. The "no until otherwise announced' mentality, thought disappointing, was good. In applaud both Matt and Sam. With that, I just am concerned about the health of old content. I get why a new game is being pursued, and although the changes aren't huge, they are new and it's at a very reasonable price. Just held out for the day some routes would be improved, like NEC's signalling. Hope that the no is more that it can't be promised rather than it's not something that might happen, but we shall see.
     
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  19. Trooper117

    Trooper117 Active Member

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    I like the idea of openness, however, I don't like the idea of ''if we don't know the answer to something count it as a no''...
    As an instructor of several trades in the army, we were always told ''never lie or bullshit your men, if you don't have an answer to a soldiers question then you tell them straight, 'I don't know the answer to that question, but I'll find out and get back to you.''
    You then make sure the next time you see them you have the correct answer, and if you still don't have the answer, you tell them to 'wait out' until you have one...
    I followed that little nugget of advice for 30 years and always had a great rapport with all ranks that I was instructing...
     
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  20. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Saying "I'll get back to you" when it's someone under your command is very different than saying "Maybe" to the baying pack of wolves which portrays to be the train simulator community
    For many "Maybe" means YES, and that leads to questions which lead to further maybes (yesses) and then people get uptight

    Much better for DTG to say "not something we're doing" and leave it at that, but then I'm a pragmatist and deal specifically in what's right in front of me rather than what might happen down the line
     
  21. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Community Manager Staff Member

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    We knew the answers to all the questions that were asked on the stream (you'd hope so, we'd had time to prepare.)

    The point of saying no is to remove all uncertainty and to deal with speculation. Let's take passenger information screens as a singular question. Are they coming in TSW2? No.

    Would we like to add them? Sure. Are they on several of the devs' "I'd like to work on that" list? Absolutely. Are they being worked on? No. Therefore, they're not coming. If that changes in the future, we'll talk about it, but TSW already had a turn around the block where desirable features were intended/hoped-for/considered (pick your own word) and then didn't materialise. There was no intent to be misleading last time, but we ended up being inaccurate with what was talked about. This time we're only talking about what is actively being worked on for inclusion in the game.

    Any woolly answer (maybe, might, could, possibly) will be interpreted as a solid YES or NO by those reading it (depending on which they want).

    [THIS IS AN EXAMPLE] "Will the next train come in the next 5 years? - We've no plans for this at all, but it could happen." (Interpreted as yes)
    [THIS IS AN EXAMPLE] "Will the beta program be only for select people? - We want it to be as open as it can, but it's possible the numbers are restricted." (Interpreted as no)

    That's human nature.
     
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  22. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

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    An all too accurate description of a significant proportion of posters on various forums. :D
     
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  23. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    Sam, if you want, I can create a small app to handle these questions automatically. The person asking only needs to type what he/she wants. Answers can be generated more or less polite depending on the number of times it has been asked. The app would come with some nice text packaging questions and answers. :)
     
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  24. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Community Manager Staff Member

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    We're trying to lock down question themes ahead of the stream so that we have as much information as possible. Yes, it allows us to get ahead of the more tricky questions, but as we showed in the first stream, that wasn't so we could duck the answer.

    I appreciate the offer Rudolf, but we already have a remote question system (we use it inside the company) if we want to go that way.
     
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