Out Of Memory Crashes - Page File Problem?

Discussion in 'Technical Reports' started by 749006, Jun 2, 2020.

  1. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Like a number of other people I have been having Out of Memory crashes with the game and like many other my computer spec is enough to run the game without a problem.

    Another crash and a BSOD and a chap on another forum suggested looking at the Page File System.
    In theory Windows 10 should not need to use the Page File but these games seem to run better with it.
    As the game used to run ok up to a month or so I wondered if a Windows Update turned the Page File Off?

    I followed the instructions here and was surprised to find the Page File was set to OFF !!!
    https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/news/how-to-manage-virtual-memory-pagefile-windows-10,36929.html
    I selected "System Managed Size" then Set. - You have to re-boot for it to apply

    On a route which would crash at the busy areas I did a full run without a crash and the FPS recorded 95 at one point. :o

    I'm still watching it but I might have found the answer to my problem
    It might be worth a look if you are having a similar problem

    Peter
     
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  2. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Peter, I will take look at that. Peter
     
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  3. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Let us know if it works for you - I noticed you had been having a number of OOM problems

    Peter
     
  4. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I will do thanks. I have had a few, mainly this problematic homemade scenario which will not open and a few in the scenario editor, where it always loads again when I restart the sim. Thankfully so far I haven't had any which causes the sim not to load at all.

    I shall try and take a look at it this evening.
     
  5. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Yeah - this is useful. As I mentioned on another thread, Win 10 has been pushing a few "feature updates" recently, and knocking out settings like audio, screen management, etc., so it doesn't surprise me if it has nosed into your pagefile settings.

    NB: I tend to match my real RAM with the same amount of virtual RAM, so my old PC has 8 GB RAM, plus 8 Gb pagefile. Some people will run with x3 pagefile... but if you do this you are really accepting that you need more real RAM..., and real RAM is better than a slow HDD... and if you start relying on HDD space to bolster your RAM routinely to support multi-tasking, then your PC will slow down viciously.

    But... if your primary storage is SSD... then extra pagefile can work extremely well.
     
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  6. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Hi Peter, mine was set to off too so I have set it up manually, not that I really had a clue as to what I was doing, I have 8gb of ram so I set it to match it as per PP above, however I notice it said to set it at 1.5 times your real ram so not sure whether to change it to that.

    It still wouldn't load that scenario but I suspect that isn't an OOM problem but I will see how the sim performs over the next few days.

    Thanks for your advice and for finding the Toms Hardware instructions.
     
  7. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    You could go for x1.5 pagefile. Some will go for x3. I'd go with x1.5 if I only had 4Gb RAM, because Win 10 really needs 4.5Gb (of preferably real RAM) to tick over, so a 4Gb system will always be dipping into virtual with Win 10, so you might as well give it a bit more breathing space on your HDD.
     
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  8. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I shall be daring and give it a go!
     
  9. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately I still get the odd Oom crashes (just had one in fact which prompted me to post this) though they are few and far between thankfully.

    My Page file is on (my Win10 didn't alter mine maybe because it's the Pro edition Idk.) and is as follows..

    Image2.jpg

    Don't know if there's any point in increasing it or not tbh?
     
  10. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    The pagefile should be set to 1.5 or 2x RAM, and since Vista MS have always buggered it up by setting it automatically at load up and then not managing it after

    The pagefile is generally used to store things which are "open" but not being used right now, and was designed to enable to faster RAM to be used for what you want immediately rather than hogging it with things which run in the background. Most people's machines have a lot more things running in the background than they even think about so having a large VM is a good thing

    On this point, I have noticed recently that windows 10 was slamming my main HDD, as in it was running on 100% use at all times. Turning off services and taking things out of boot didn't fix it. Then I noticed a folder called windows.old on my main drive, and this was in use constantly. Looks like the last update of windows before the current one was a real resource hog, and caused my machine to slow down so much it was basically unusable.

    To clear this up:
    Go to the search bar on your start bar
    Type in "disk cleanup" and run this from the options given
    Click OK when asked which disk. It doesn't matter which you choose at this stage
    Let the scan run and you'll be given the main cleanup window
    Click "Clean up system files"
    NOW when asked select your system (windows) drive and click OK
    Let it scan
    On the next screen select "Previous Windows installation(s)" and nothing else and then click OK
    It will take a short while (mine took 20 minutes) but this will clean the old windows installation and you'll regain your disk space as well as unload the old dross

    My machine now runs smoothly!
     
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  11. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Here you can see that you have 16Gb total RAM, with 4.7Gb consumed by Win 10... leaving you a massive 11.3 GB of real RAM spare. Not much software will use that much RAM - you'd have to have a monstrous spreadsheet in the background, or maybe you could be doing some rendering/compression for a very long movie... (If you drop long videos on YouTube, then a further 16GB of physical RAM would come in handy to save time in your work-flow...).

    I'd personally keep your virtual RAM where it is, matched with your real RAM, at 16GB. But you could tinker with it.... you might find that some software (maybe TS1) will run faster if it isn't ever allowed to dip into virtual RAM - you could maybe even try reducing the virtual RAM, as an experiment.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2020
  12. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    This is a brilliantly useful post for anyone that has "upgraded" one or more machines from Windows 7 (or even Win XP) to Windows 10. I'd first ensure that you have a backup of your data (if you want to be totally cautious).

    Anyway - thank you - a truly super idea....!
     
  13. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    They do with major revisions within windows 10 as well.
    e.g. when the windows version "goes up a hundred" it's actually a major update and will create windows.old which can cause problems. The update released on 27th May went from 10.1909 to 10.2004 (or OS build 18363.836 to OS 19041.264) so as you can see, all the numbers went up a major revision. In other words this could be windows 11 or 12, but MS has said they will not change the number ever again, so Windows 10 it is
     
  14. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I have now just done this on my ten-year-old "productivity" desktop.... and it cleared 4 Gb of junk. And it is now slightly more spritely... ;-)

    I routinely defrag my PCs, especially after large file moves and uninstalls, but I have never done a "Windows Cleanup". I will keep this in mind for my newer PCs (for a later date), if they slow down. Maybe I won't wait ten years next time... ;-O
     
  15. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    According to MS, these .old folders get cleaned up routinely after a month, but in the case of the last iteration it caused my HDD no end of grief, so clearing it resolved that for me. Hopefully your old beast will run more freely now
     
  16. GarethDavies21

    GarethDavies21 New Member

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    Sorry if this sounds off. But we shouldn't have to be doing this. DTG release addons like they are going out of business before actually fixing a core issue which in some cases makes the game unplayable. Prancing around like nothing is wrong when there are clear issues which we haven't heard anything from them for months regarding this issue.

    If this was EA, EPIC or another developer we'd be up in arms.

    Sort it out ffs.
     
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  17. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    OOM messages are more to do with 3rd party content and clashes between what people download and the DTG core elements, so this is NOT a DTG issue, it's a user one

    There are things DTG can do to remedy the parts that are them alone, but there is no onus on them to support works or amendments undertaken by others.
     
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  18. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Luckily, I had not been getting any OOM errors but I did find that my page file was only set at 4gb.
    Thanks for the head up.
     
  19. GarethDavies21

    GarethDavies21 New Member

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    Don't think it is third party systems bud. It's something to do with 64 bit... GEML dumps without any addons 321's, 90's etc.
     
  20. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I used to get dumps on GEML, especially with the Powerhaul 66. Recently did a complete strip and reload. Works like a dream now. No workshop content and only brand new downloads of 3rd party stuff, so none of the updates and clutter from multiple extracts
     
  21. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    For some reason that option does not appear on my computer when I run Disk Cleanup
     
  22. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I believe it only appears when there are old installations TO remove. I just ran it on mine again and didn't get the option, but there's no windows.old on my drive
     
  23. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    In the latest version it's been renamed "Windows update cleanup"
     
  24. DigitalTemerity

    DigitalTemerity New Member

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    According to Tom's Hardware the pagefile should be set between 1.5X and 4X your actual RAM. I only have 16GB of RAM, but that made for a huge pagefile size. The system was already managing the pagefile, and it wasn't shut off for me, so I after realizing what it would actually be set to manually chose to leave the system in charge. Currently it takes up about 2GB of space. I reset it to System Managed and am rebooting my machine, so it may change the size I don't know.

    I changed my mind. This is worth trying. If the current settings aren't working then I have to try something. I went with Tom's Hardware's recommendation for pagefile size. I think it's excessive, but if it works then cool. I will have to test it later. I know that this problem is related to scenarios that I have downloaded from the Steam Workshop. I'm extremely hesitant to download anymore things from there as it messes up the base game to the point that it won't even start, and it is irreparable. A reinstall is required following a reboot. I also have to delete everything in the Railworks folder except TempDump in order for it to work again.

    I did run a backup of my game files through Steam onto an external hard drive. I'm not sure how to restore the backup, but I can figure it out eventually.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2020
  25. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    This is accurate, but above 8Gb you would only need 1.5 or 2x, so for a 16Gb machine an 8Gb pagefile is more than sufficient. And you need to reboot when changing this setting as windows "reserves" the disk space on load and from memory (as in mine) I don't think it can dynamically change this when loaded even though VM has been around since windows 95 if not before...
     
  26. jeremy.oakes

    jeremy.oakes New Member

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    I also have this problem. (PLuse the Dx one) on 32 GB. I've deleted my workshop itmes and the cache and checked the integrity of the files all as suggested in the other fred. I've just re-set the PageFile as above to letting the system handle it. We shall see. Winge and dump file going off later to DTG. TS is unusable now, however I will reboot and see if the Pagefile re-set does anything.
    Best,
    J
     
  27. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Along with Deleting your Workshop files did you also unsubscribe from them - If not the game would reload them.
    You need to unsubscribe when the game is Not Running via the Web or Steam Client

    If the game is not running you could try a File Verification via the Steam Client - do it more than once until it reports none missing - It is something DTG would tell you to do.

    Peter
     
  28. jeremy.oakes

    jeremy.oakes New Member

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    Yes I did via the steam client. Did a file verification also. It fixed a few files.
    Re-booted after altering the page file settings, and low and behold TS started up - I ran an scenario and it didn't crash.
    Fingers crossed.
    BTW, somebody in the other fred said not to use a USB audio device. This is BS, I have a DAW with a Focusrite USB audio device, have had since TS came out and that has never caused problems.
    Thanks for the PageFile info, I hope I haven't spoken too soon .....
    J
     
  29. jeremy.oakes

    jeremy.oakes New Member

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    Nope, spoke too soon. The new Metropolitan Line simply crashes to Steam Client. Apparently DTG know about this and are "investigating". The route is unplayable. Everything else works since the pagefile fix.
    Jerry
     
  30. carl.headley92

    carl.headley92 Well-Known Member

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    Yes I have been getting OUT OF Memory error message with the just Trains Metropolitan Line Route
     
  31. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I was advised by DTG that 8gb of memory was causing my OOM crashes during a particular scenario I had made. I thought it was probably a load of rubbish. However, I had placed a lot of static consists in this scenario, I decided to delete most of them and now it runs so that dois point to a shortage of memory. I do plan eventually to upgrade to 16gb. I did increase the size of the page file but in this instance it didn't make any difference but might have stopped other issues.
     
  32. Peter Hayes

    Peter Hayes Well-Known Member

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    The Paging File Explained
    One Caveat – NEVER turn-off the Paging File – there should always be one set no matter what.

    The main uses of the paging File are

    1. Physical extension of RAM
    Page files enable the system to remove infrequently accessed modified pages from physical memory to let the system use physical memory more efficiently for more frequently accessed pages. This is the slowest form of (virtual) memory being over 40,000+ x slower than RAM. Probably best to use a SDD for a paging file – less lag. Windows makes very few writes to the PF so the life of a SSD should be unaffected.

    2. Support for system crash dumps
    Page files can be used to "back" (or support) system crash dumps and extend how much system-committed memory (also known as “virtual memory”) a system can support. (eg Windows error log files for crash dumps.

    Mark Russinovich the Windows Guru for Sysinternals states:
    (Developer, ProcMon, Process Explorer, Disk Mon, VMMap and many others) See YouTube video: Sysinternals Update June 2020; https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/sysinternals-suite and

    "Perhaps one of the most commonly asked questions related to virtual memory is, how big should I make the paging file? There’s no end of ridiculous advice out on the web and in the newsstand magazines that cover Windows, and even Microsoft has published misleading recommendations. Almost all the suggestions are based on multiplying RAM size by some factor, with common values being 1.2, 1.5 and 2.
    These do not reflect how the paging file works.
    He states based on his experience with Windows is: To optimize your pagefile size to fit your actual needs, you should follow a much different formula: The Minimum should be Peak Commit – Physical RAM, and the Maximum should be double that. That can be ascertained via RESMON etc (Developed by M Russinovich)"


    Being a little less knowledgeable, I use the following.
    If you have 16GB of RAM or more and you turn off Windows crash dump files then a Paging File on a Fast SSD should be around 2 - 4GB Minimum and 2 – 4GB Maximum. If you still want to use the Crash Dump option then double of these will be plenty. Always set the values yourself as IMO Windows allocates too much space for an optimal PF.

    Windows TS20XX IMO needs at least 16GB RAM to minimise PF usage, and 32GB means very little PF used.
     
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  33. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Most helpful as always Peter. Thank you,
     
  34. BritishRail60062

    BritishRail60062 Active Member

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    My paging file was default set to 4GB or thereabouts and I have just upped mine to 10GB although I have 32GB of RAM on this PC I am using since 2017. As for the OOM issues. Its entirely random here because my train simulator 2021 dropped out just outside Coventry yesterday with the OOM memory. But I just restarted the game and oddly enough I did a full journey from Euston to New Street in the 390 without issue and a trip in the 377/2 to Milton Keynes and the game didn't crash. I am yet to work out the cause of the OOM issues but I wonder if I upped the page file to 10GB could eliminate it altogether? I am no PC technician but I want to at least try and fix minor problems myself. Its only TS2021/TS2020 that has done this OOM issue to me and its very random when it happens. I think my tweak of upping the page file to 10GB could work but I will wait and see what happens tonight :).
     
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  35. michael hooley

    michael hooley Well-Known Member

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    Like Peter i was getting crashes to the desktop from the sim, but more worrying was with having a new computer the intermittent blue screens of death. I spent hours with my supplier checking my system and found nothing amiss.

    I was told to make sure windows 10 and all my drivers were up to date.

    i do not know why both TSW 1/2 are named prototype in my steam folder, has anyone any idea why?

    I installed the oldest available driver for my Nvidia 2070 super, started the sim from inside Steam, and in my case turned off the overlay in GeForce Experience.

    Since then (touch wood) over 2 weeks i have driven 14 hours without a crash of any kind. I hope this is not a fluke, the other thing is i do not know which of the 3 things has cured the problem Lol. I suspect it was the graphics card driver.
     
  36. milepost42films

    milepost42films New Member

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    Does anyone have any updates on this out of memory error issue? I've tried everything listed in this and the 2020 threads. I'm at my wits end. The game worked fine up until this 2021 update.
     
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  37. triznya.andras

    triznya.andras Well-Known Member

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    I got a lot of crashes building a scenario on Castle Rock. Not a particularly memory intensive route.
    I was using a few cars, got two crashes while placing the PRR X boxcars at Monument. The place isn't exactly big enough to get filled with so many cars, albeit it could be.
    Then I was going to the cement place, had literally no more than a 25ish string of coal cars, and it would crash on that 3-4 times. Later I filled it further without issues.
    The good thing is, the game is reporting all crashes automatically now (since TS 2020) so resolving them is only about resources.

    I have no crashes while driving since ages.
     
  38. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    No, but it is the same in everyone's folders
     
  39. slenderman7676RBLX

    slenderman7676RBLX Member

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    I have been getting constant OOMs for even trying to load any scenario recently. For reference I got 16GB RAM, GTX 1060 6GB and a Core I5-8600K I have already tried disconnecting internet and turning off pagefile but it does not seem to cure it. If I try to play or even create a scenario it goes to loading screen for about 15 seconds then OOMs.
     
  40. RobertM

    RobertM New Member

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    Didnt work for me unfortunately :(
     
  41. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Try going to TSW2 Properties in Steam and turning off the Steam overlay and VR support.
     
  42. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Thank you!!!!!!!! I can't explain why it took me so long to read this post and follow your simple instructions for setting up a page file. Thanks to your advice, I can now run TS2021 in 64-bit mode.
     
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  43. Hatter

    Hatter New Member

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    I run ts2021 64 bit ok but when I close it down the white box with the oom is there. Strange.
    Peter
     
  44. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    That is happening for me too now?
     
  45. Southerner

    Southerner New Member

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    I have received the OOM error inconsistently on both a newly built 32GB gaming PC that runs TSW2 as well as TS2021, and my old rig using 16GB I use for TS2021 as well. Both run TS from an SSD with over half the drive free and paging space enabled. I am still loading Academy Tutorials so custom content isn't an issue there. Running up to date drivers with Nvidia 1060ti GPU on old rig, and Radeon RX580 on the new. sfc & dism windows diags report no errors. When it occurs, it is always the same error for me and generally on the first attempt loading the Drive/Academy, etc from the Main Menu:

    RailWorks
    Saved log to...
    ...\RailWorks\TempDump
    Exception Code: 0xC0000005

    Only in TS2021, TSW2 hasnt thrown the error. And it started immediately following the latest Steam update.

    Mem.jpg

    [UPDATE 3/11 - FIXED my issue] - So, thanks to the forum community I was able to try and piece this together. A lot of posts were pointing to the workshop, which I guess I was not familiar with. Found I had subscribed to four of them probably not realizing what I was doing though after seeing them I recalled trying to get more info. Anyway, I unsubscribed from them and the OOM error went away, odd as I wasn't even trying to load them and it was interfering with my Academy selections. So I decided after unsubscribing to Subscribe again and give it a go. So far so good, though they are still waiting to be played. No more OOM errors. So there has to be something with the workshop and subscribed content that doesn't reinitialize properly with updates, or maybe a windows update introduced it to the game for me and it coincidentally occurred at the same time the last update applied. If you experience the issue, you can possibly try this and see if it works for you.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2021
  46. kosti.nuuja

    kosti.nuuja Well-Known Member

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    Can freeware third-party routes be more unstable than payware routes. I drive a lot of Dutch freeware routes, however rolling stock is payware. (Made by ChrisTrains) I hope, that I can use them, because I have spent a lot of money to the rolling stock.
     
  47. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    I have to say I never had issues with OOM or crashes with core DTG DLC - it's when I started adding Workshop and third party that these became more normal. Thing is, I added so much in a quick time period, I didn't allow myself the chance to notice that X is the culprit.

    Might be worth me unsubscribing from everything in Workshop and readding sequentially to see what happens.
     
  48. kosti.nuuja

    kosti.nuuja Well-Known Member

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    I unsubscribed all workshop content, but there's still crashing.
     
  49. Peter Hayes

    Peter Hayes Well-Known Member

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    k.n
    You also need to check if any WS scenarios are still installed on your PC - TS Tools does a good job they are coloured light blue,
    Plus you need to delete/copy to a safe place - these files - restarting TS after builds a new scenario database
    Close TS and navigate to: \STEAM\steamapps\common\RailWorks\Content and delete/rename the following 4 files:
    · SDBCache.bin;
    · SDBCache.bin.MD5;
    · RVDBCache.bin; Optional
    · RVDBCache.bin.MD5; Optional
    Restart steam and TS
    pH
     
  50. westcastlerail

    westcastlerail Active Member

    Joined:
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    I have been driving trains in Trains Simulator since November last year (only approx 6 months)

    I have 20 UK routes, 19 of which have been brought through Steam, the only other route I have is WCML missing link.

    This weekend I have been beset by problems with Out of Memory Crashes.

    I have tried all the fixes mentioned on this thread, but am still getting crashes all of the time.

    I have spent a small fortune on a PC, routes and hardware and suddenly this weekend has stopped working but Im really at the end of my tether trying to sort this out.

    Is there a core problem with the game that has come from the file speed up latest update?
     

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