Patches For Dtg Ts2021 Routes

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by sjjones98, Jul 13, 2021.

  1. sjjones98

    sjjones98 New Member

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    Obviously with TSW2 taking priority, the number of first party DTG routes has decreased. However, I feel that the routes they have been working on have been interesting in the main and have included many long asked for sections (Birmingham XC, Tehachapi Loop and so on).
    My beef is that they never release patches or service packs for their own routes. The only TS2021 patches we get are for 3rd party content (London Euston - B'ham as an exception as it was unplayable). For example, players have been asking for months for fixes to the signalling and speed limits to Koblenz-Franfurt ( an otherwise very enjoyable route) and I know that at least one of the scenarios cannot be completed due to AI collisions.
    They have made it a priority to stamp out critical bugs such as incompletable scenarios in TSW2 but this is not the case for their TS2021 routes so I would like to know why they cannot make fixes to TS2021 routes.
    The fact that TS2021 routes are usually more expensive than TSW2 routes rubs salt into the wounds.

    They could release an annual service pack for DLCs with the content refresh as a suggestion.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2021
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  2. DIFFLOCK

    DIFFLOCK Active Member

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    From the reply I received to a ticket I submitted on another matter, the faulty ES44 brakes on Tehachapi are now known about :cool:
     
  3. sjjones98

    sjjones98 New Member

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    That's probably the last we'll hear about it!:)
     
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  4. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    They are two separate departments each has their own teams, so there should be no reason as to why they cannot put patches such as Tehachapi Loop or any others that are in need of fixes. I cannot see TSW's Rush Hour release stalling them from releasing fixes for TS21.
     
  5. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    I submitted a ticket for the same issue and have heard nothing back since their reply on June 28th.
     
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  6. trainnick77

    trainnick77 Member

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    I have submitted tickets for a number of broken scenarios on vairios routes, nothing gets done.
    Jamie or Matt, if you are reading this could you comment?
     
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  7. DTG JD

    DTG JD Staff Member

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    Hi folks - thought I'd jump in to try to answer this.

    First up, thanks for submitting any issues you spot - we do log all of them, and prioritise them based on the severity, number of reports, ease to replicate, and impact they have on your playing experience (as well as other factors).

    What this means is that the team are aware of them, and aim to work on them (if they're reproducible) as soon as they can. I understand the frustration that sometimes these take a while to fix, though - we are working on how we can better support, but for a product which has been running as long as TS has though, some of the seemingly-simple fixes can take much longer to sort.
     
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  8. trainnick77

    trainnick77 Member

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    JD

    There have been scnarios in Train simulator that have been broken for years, kiel lubeck was released with two broken scenarios, this shows a lack of testing to start with.

    I have reported broken scenarios years ago, and still nothing has been done about them
     
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  9. Kim Olesen

    Kim Olesen Active Member

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    Kills the immersion, when you come across signals as this. It’s quite jarring. But it’s a German route so it wont be fixed. Fixes are for english routes.
    944800F6-3AAE-4797-8953-17FC49CC4CDE.jpeg
     
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  10. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Member

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    Is that Frankfurt Koblenz?
     
  11. Kim Olesen

    Kim Olesen Active Member

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    Yes. And there are quite a few of those.
     
  12. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Member

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    I thought that may be the case (looks like St Goar area). All I can say is, that route hasn't been forgotten :) (they are known about )
     
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  13. Kim Olesen

    Kim Olesen Active Member

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    I reported this, through several channels, 2 days after the release. With a description of most of the problems. I even recorded a video for them to see.

    They’ve known for a long time for sure.
     
  14. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Member

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    (I was dropping a hint that it is being looked at ;) )
     
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  15. Kim Olesen

    Kim Olesen Active Member

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    Well it would be nice with an official acknowledgement along the lines of “we are aware of this”. But there has been absolute silence.

    And might i add, that it is not just Koblenz Frankfurt suffereing from this. A simple quickdrive on Lübeck Kiel would have shown that something has gone seriously wrong in their German signal script. You basically have to tab your way through half of the stations. And The Köln sbahn extension, is basically unplayable.

    None of this has been acknowledged either, but it certainly has been reported.

    What is strange is that the script simply seems to have deterioated over the years. Köln Koblenz, Hamburg Hannover, etc is playable. Not always 100% correct, but no showstoppers either. But then, over time more and more errors have begun to creep into the signal script.

    All these errors have been given the silent treatment from dtg. And i am sorry to say that the trackrecord of fixing German routes do not suggest that anything will be done. I will have to see it to believe it.

    And this is said with the hope that i’m proven wrong.

    That being said, using Schuster signals on Dresden Riesa. YAY. By a country mile the best signalling on a German route from DTG. Pretty perfect and reliable. Now that was a good call. And i would happily pay for old routes to be upgraded with Schuster signalling. Even if it was only the script and not the signals. (Though they do look wonderful, and you can actually see the lights in the KS signals from a distance)

    But why not ask directly? DTG JD does DTG acknowledge these problems with the German signal script? Are you striving to fix it?
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2021
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  16. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Member

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    I think it's probably best if I refrain from commenting further. (This is not me saying, I'm ignoring anything, I was honestly trying to be helpful but instead made it worse.)
     
  17. Kim Olesen

    Kim Olesen Active Member

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    not sure you made things worse in any way. From my perspective it has always been “nothing will be fixed”. Now you are saying, that fixes are being worked on. What is your affiliation with dtg.
     
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  18. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    It's not you Danny, Kim Olesen had an axe to grind and nothing was going to detract him from doing so, add to the fact that he doesn't even know who you are proves that you in no way "made anything worse"

    Kim Olesen Danny is a dtg dev. Edit: and probably one of the nicest guys yet constantly takes flack for trying to be helpful.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2021
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  19. Kim Olesen

    Kim Olesen Active Member

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    atomicdanny righty. I am very aware that i came across grumpy. That is what hapoens when costumerfeedback falls flat for too long. If, indeed things are changing, i am very happy about this.
     
  20. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Please continue to be a voice on the forums, it really seems to be needed you definitely did nothing wrong or made things worse.
     
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  21. WhippleStripper

    WhippleStripper Active Member

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    Axe to grind or legitimate complaint? I would very much say the latter.
     
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  22. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Member

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    It may surprise you but I do agree with you on a lot of the above things, but I can't really say much about that (Cologne S13 bugs me too, a lot, I also get frustrated when things are like they are), if I had scripting knowledge I'd be trying to get these fixed myself, but sadly my German Signalling knowledge is almost non existent. The problem that I have is that I'm not really supposed to reply, so I have to be very careful what I would say, however with Dresden I'm glad those signals were used (as to me that showed some hope, I wanted to mention Frankfurt because to at least show we don't ignore things (granted more things should be fixed, I'm always trying to fight that corner but those decisions are ultimately above me.

    In my case I do want to help (but there are things that are beyond what I know unfortunately).
     
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  23. Kim Olesen

    Kim Olesen Active Member

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    Not trying to axe anything. I think it is ok to expect that a Train Simulator is sold with signals that are in the ballpark of correct. When the signalling is so bad that you can’t really play the route, then the product is faulty.

    And as far as i could tell Danny totally understood where i’m coming from.

    Also appreciate that the years of silence on this matter, has caused frustrations to rise in the whole of the German TS community, who sees it like the English routes get all the love, while they have to rely on community upgrades to even get signalling that makes the routes playable. What good does good scenery do if you can’t get through even a simple qd without crazy signalling?

    This could have been acknowledged and adressed years ago, and it would not have come to me complaining here, coming off like the most sour person on the planet. Believe it or not, i am actually a nice guy too. But ofcourse when one complains about a faulty product, you always get cast as the nasty fellow.
     
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  24. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    I don't disagree with anything you've said and I completely understand the frustration,, all I was trying to say to Danny was that your post was not personally directed toward him.

    Trust me I have plenty of DTG axes to grind of my own, and that's not necessarily a bad thing, DTG need to be held accountable for products that they've sold and still continue to sell that they are "aware" are not working correctly as advertised and yet do nothing to remedy or even reassure their cashcows (sorry, I mean customers) that it is being addressed, this is wholly unacceptable by any standard.
     
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  25. helderbrincolas

    helderbrincolas Well-Known Member

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    Are we ever gonna see a fix for the class 323 sounds?? I want to buy the route, but with those sounds i know that the experience is going to be awfull... I know how DTG works with TSW produtcs, but in TS they just don't care it seems. Horrible costumer treatment!
     
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  26. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    As with most things TS you need to turn to the community for fixes/patches, over on the Alan Thompson Sim website there is a free improvement sound patch but there's some AP payware dependencies. https://alanthomsonsim.com/downloads/class-323-sound-pack/

    If you're waiting for an official DTG fix then, yeah... just go to ATS..
     
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  27. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Don't hold your breath for a fix but whilst you are waiting
    https://alanthomsonsim.com/downloads/class-323-sound-pack/
     
  28. helderbrincolas

    helderbrincolas Well-Known Member

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    I´m aware of that fix in ATS website, but that requires the AP class 365 and 390 EP... So, to the resolve the issue of the class 323 sounds i need to pay 23€, plus the money that i payed for the Cross City... Not always i should save my selfe with 3º party content patches/fixes, DTG should slove this problem because is a product made by them, that i payed, and is not working correclty... I know that the support of the community of TS is great, but dtg needs to have a supportive customer treatment, i know how they work, we all know ahaaha, but it´s just ridicouless...
     
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  29. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately you might be waiting a long time for that to happen

    DTG packaged the Kiel - Lubeck route with TS2021 even though it had numerous errors which were not fixed
    And there are other DLC that has problems - like the new(ish) Class 60 with the wrong sounds
    The Frankfurt - Koblenz route with broken signalling - the list goes on
     
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  30. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    “Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, digital content should be of a satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and as described.

    My rights have been breached because the digital content you sold me is faulty. I would like you to fix it within a reasonable time.”
     
  31. WhippleStripper

    WhippleStripper Active Member

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    Good luck with that.

    Remember that satisfactory quality does not mean perfect, with no defects at all. You have to take into account many things, including how much you paid for it.
     
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  32. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure DTG's legal representatives would be more than happy to respond to an official claim from you, let us know how you get on..

    No?

    Nah didn't think so..
    Exactly.
     
  33. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    So what you are saying is that DtG intentionally has the signals in Koblenz Frankfurt broken, and not functioning is intended?
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
  34. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    I very much doubt DTG made the signals "Broken" - the signals are not set up as they should be.
    There is a Patch on RailSim.de
     
  35. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Well, that isn't railsim.de's responsibility, is it?
     
  36. frank351981

    frank351981 Member

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    Sorry, but this argument is poor, really, really poor. A lot of errors bugs and stuff are reproducable. And a lot of stuff could be easily corrected from someone who knows how to do it. Let us take the newer Frankfurt - Koblenz route as example. Here you find floating kilometer signs, wrong track paths in the QD, a part of a bridge lays middle in the track (the same thing as in Frankfurt - Mannheim extension), wrong signal speeds (for example at Boppard) and so on and so on. A lot of them are reproducable AND VISIBLE. Those should be detected during a betatest. And please don´t say that you do betatests. Those much failures only leads the conclusure that you don´t do a betatest, and if there something like a betatest, kick out the betatesters!
    And those bugs and errors you can find along all other routes. The Köln S13 extension was the worsest one where you even cant drive to that track where the train should go because switches are not working properly. The Nürnberg - Regensburg route with no single kilometer sign. The Mittenwaldbahn where in the QD from Innsbruck to Garmisch you become a collision with the toward coming AI on the single track!. Or the Fife Circle Line: here you can find super elevation at places where to curve transition is build. Result: Bumpings when driving over these. Then the broken sound of the Class 323 from the Birmingham Route. And the actually Techahapi route with the fully destroyed brakes of that one loco is so obviously that you DTG can´t say "oh sorry we invastigate this". That´s all we have heard to all of the DLC´s. And all of them has never been fixed.
    "As soon as they can" - since years nothing happened, the only execpt on the West Coast Main Line. And only because the Shitstorm was really great.
    "some of the seemingle-simple fixes can take much longer to sort out" - here again, some DLC`s are old. And nothing happend. OK - some failures are difficult to solve and would need to rebuild the track (as the aboved named example with the super elevation). But others are solvalbe - If you try and have the will. By the way I have tried for myself to correct some of the bullshit I have found in the route as wrong signal speed entrys. And these "Upgrades" (by the hell, they are not perfect, but for myself it is more drivable than in the original version) are done in a as I think acceptable time, so that you DTG-guys - who might me more professionals in those things than I am - could have done some bugfixing in the same tim.
    This is what you DTG should do and not the Community. !!!
    :mad:
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
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  37. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    You seem to be reading something that is not there.
    DTG did not check the route before release
    So you can live with it as it stands or look for a patch that improves the route for you
    Simple as that
     
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  38. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Actually Peter I would very much like DtG to fix the problems with their routes. As for beta testers they must all be wearing DtG standard-issue very dark glasses.
     
  39. helderbrincolas

    helderbrincolas Well-Known Member

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    Ahahahahah, and i think they play the game with the volume on 0.
     
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  40. raptorengineer

    raptorengineer Active Member

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    why can't we upload fixes to steam workshop. know how there scenarios and routes well why not add patches to list. ya then community can fix the broken stuff that dtg can't and add it to steam workshop. would that work?
     
  41. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    You don't have anyway of knowing if the patch would work or not and it could break something else
    I downloaded a scenario that was faulty and caused the game to crash.
    People reported it to the Author who did nothing to fix it.

    Any fixes would be better going to a proper site like Railworks America, RailSim.de or UKTS where if there was a problem it would get picked up quickly and not just left.
    AFAIK nobody checks what is uploaded to the Workshop
     
  42. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Peter you have a very monocular outlook to modding and gaming in general, that's not a criticism it's just an observation, your whole (gaming) world is seemingly focused around Train Sims and unfortunately means you don't really understand how it could/should be, other modded games have very successful and active Steam communities based around them and they are actively monitored and supported by the Devs, and the thing is they work, whether it's community made fixes or additional content that the Devs can't put in themselves like real branding, the point is a lot of Devs will monitor and moderate these communities properly and with effort, DTG don't.

    Steam is not the problem with Train Sim modding via Steam... DTG and their lacklustre, disinterested approach to their communities are... Everything DTG do regarding community (which is basically limited to the Twitch streams) is solely another cash generator, DTG give nothing they get nothing out of.
     
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  43. MRFS

    MRFS New Member

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    I am wary of getting involved, lest that my words are misinterpreted.

    I signalled Frankfurt-Koblenz and Lubeck-Kiel.

    If there are errors, then I wholeheartedly apologise.

    To the best of my knowledge Lubeck - Kiel was set up as best as I could manage with the assets I had to hand. The same is true of Frankfurt - Koblenz.

    Upon revisiting Frankfurt - Koblenz I am now aware that there are numerous errors still outstanding, which I am working through. I have spent much time voluntarily examining these and trying to rectify those errors (and in fact am doing so as I write).

    I note upthread there is a picture of a signal at St. Goar. I am annoyed that the pair of signals there do not want to work as I carefully modelled them to reflect what is there in real life: Bauforme 85 main heads and Bauforme 69 vor heads. Sadly, I have had to replace both of those signals with completely Bauforme 85 heads.

    I do not wish anyone to think that because I do a lot of work voluntarily that I am above criticism, however I would like genuinely comment that I work very hard indeed to try and get everything working as it should, and if it doesn't work: I apologise.

    I appreciate the reports we've had in to date, and would ask that for any similar reports anyone be as specific as possible with geolocations and signal IDs. This helps no end, as without those we're fighting blind. Within Frankfurt - Koblenz there are over 700 different types of signal (and that does not count multiple uses of each signal, that's just each asset).
     
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  44. Kim Olesen

    Kim Olesen Active Member

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    I will happily do a list of all the ones i found.
    I am recording an album the next days so it wont be untill the weekend.
    But may i suggest this; All the errors i know, came from a simple quick drive in each direction, so i think that signals with all lights on will catch your eye as soon as you see them.

    The same with Kiel - Lübeck. Do a QD in each direction, and all will reveal itself.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
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  45. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    No one doubts that you work hard, but my question would be why weren't these "errors" picked up by beta testers before release? Negating then all the negative feedback these signalling issues have generated!
    Just seems like very poor QA.
     
  46. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    I read somewhere from a person who did Beta testing of scenarios and although they identified faults and reported them people further up the management ladder still let the faulty add-on be released as they had already set the date with Steam
     
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  47. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Why am I not surprised.
     
  48. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    QA Teams job is to find the issues. They have no ability to stop the release, all they can do is make the recommendation to fix it. It must be quite soul destroying destroying for a tester who

    1). Didn’t create the bug in the first place.
    2) Did actually find it
    3) Got ignored by management who said publish anyway.
    4) got the blame for it on the forums.

    Now I have no idea about DTG‘s QA Team. They may or may not be good or bad. But I bet some of them are sitting reading the forums and seeing themselves portrayed as rubbish and thinking, ‘I did find that‘
     
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  49. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Good job they learnt their lesson from WCML south.
     
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  50. DIFFLOCK

    DIFFLOCK Active Member

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    ... and yet the brakes are still not fixed on the ES44 in Tehahchapi... ;)
     
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