Peak Forest Community Feedback List

From what we know so far, it starts at a minor junction station where half the trains running along the line don't stop, they haven't included the correct train for the Buxton to Millers Dale shuttle, so have they included anything at all, if they have it will be wrong? Also, they have trains in the game which with some modification would easily layer in. It took me 15 minutes to discover that indeed a Peak would have been probably more likely seen on the line in 1963 than a Jubilee.

If this was a modern route this forum would have been in meltdown by now.

Yes it is only a game and no I/we don't have to purchase it but I would like to purchase it as it is one of the few historic routes we have seen so far. However it feels sometimes DTG do as little as they can.

Don't get me wrong, I am enjoying TSW more than ever and using it more than ever but most routes I just a feeling of "near but yet so far".

Most of the historic UK releases lack something, WCL, TVL, SOS and now this route. NTP has probably been the best so far.

 

Whether you like it or not, they have deadlines. If they had several years to create dlc, then maybe they can include every single locomotive that ever ran on the route. At the end of the day, don't buy it if you don't want it. But the truth is you can't get everything.

 

No ones saying they could include every locomotive. A great portion of people who will buy historic content would want that content to be accurate or well rounded, which I don't think is too much to ask? Especially for something steam/early diesel era where a lot of variety would've been seen.

That and they always encourage giving feedback on their decisions. People have raised some very valid points about rolling stock and the route itself. Which I personally don't think are unreasonable.

 

Honestly, I've played some toxic games and they will post up the most underpowered, useless, idiotic items and everyone exclaims that nobody will part with x amount of money for it... yet you still see thousands of players in game who have forked out real world money for said thing.
If the route is purely steam, I'd throw money at it. I'm not fussed if it starts in an illogical place and ends in an even more illogical place. I'm there to see the paths I've walked in the peaks just as much as I'm there for the trains.

As for the DTG adoration comment, I'm just glad to see that the forum isn't as heavily negative as it usually is.

 

We all have different expectations and desires. It doesn't bother you, fair enough, it bothers me. I am sure it will sell as I am sure I am in a minority.

If this was a modern period route I can guarantee if would not have started in the middle of nowhere.

I certainly wouldn't say I am a generally negative person on this forum.

 

Agreed. Some of the responses to my views have been a little antagonistic. We are all individuals and all have our own views. The fact I recently bought the PS5 version of TSW3 as well as the PC version indicates my general like of the game. However it is entirely possible to like the game, but not the direction in which DTG seem to be taking it - truncated routes, fewer trains and higher prices.

 

Totally agree that a BR Green diesel pack would be highly sensible and fairly easy money since class 45/20/37/31/101/08 already exist in the game. I would also probably prefer to drive diesels anyway as I haven't tried steam locomotives yet and I'm not sure I'll be any good at them (but I am glad they exist in game).

 

I wouldn’t worry as since we have no control over the fire there is almost no skill driving them.
All you have to do is set the regulator and reduce the cut-off gradually.
You may as well be driving a diesel.

All the skill comes from balancing the fire and water to give you steam when you need it and not waste it when you don’t. DTG haven’t given us this.

 

Most current uk diesels in tsw are already converted to a dual brake system. Some people might think just repaint the thing and here we go, but unfortunately thats not the case. Most of the Classes came out of the factory to a time, where TOPS code didnt even exist, so they were numbered D200 or D5220 etc.

They were produced in the factory mostly with a vacuum brake system. Many got fitted with E.Q vacuum later, so there is a huge variety if DTG want to get it accurate, its probably a start from scratch, even the visuals (headboxes etc.) and ends up in a separate loco dlc, or new loco to a route.

The only locomotive currently i can immagine is the class 33, which had its dual Brake system out of the factory at BRCW. They converted some of them to push & pull peration. Also the class 101 would fit into an earlier era.

All other UK diesels we have (even the class 09), are dual equiped locomotives. The conversions started early with the 47 & 37, some of them had DUAL shortly before 1970, but the gap is too far between the route is set to look it realistic. DTG really should not send Dual converted locos into a transition era or steam era route.

Practical example --> Same loco, Major difference from Late 1960s to 1976:





I dont see a problem in this, DTG has the unique chance to sell the "same" loco as new dlc, because its entirely different in its current modification.

 

Honestly though as I have said give the Peak a headcode box and I would be fine to ignore things like that which although not ideal is much better than nothing. Peaks were as (if not more) commonly found on the expresses on this line in 63 as the Jubilees were. I am going to sound like a broken record but my brain is so genuinely baffle the Peak and 101 won't be on this route.

 

No, he isn't The Boss. Or at least not The Big Boss. Matt has to work under the deadlines and budgets handed down to him from above.

 

A green peak would be class, they look so much better in green with headcode boxes

 

Well that's a debate for another day!
Personally my preference is blue with the centre headcode box though!

 

Come on DTG, you need to give us this. Big noisy diesels are for hauling trains, if I want to see steam I’ll put the kettle on for a cup of tea…

 

If DTG ever releases a Route in a Transition era, they should consider release the dlc with 2-3 diesel in its "out of the factory" configuration, instead of an entire new loco. I could well live with that. (Class 45, 20 & cl.08.)

I guess some people dont care wrong locomotive configuartions in certain eras, but thats personal taste i guess, the community has complained for way less problematic things. I just think its not right, because DTG spend so much effort in research (if this signal mast was a semaphore or already a modernised in 1959 etc.), and then they go into the timetable and just plant a entire time inapropriate locomotive on the tracks..

 

This route is in the transition era though. If anything on passenger workings, certainly express passenger working diesels were more common than steam at this point. The Buxton to Millers Dale shuttle had been a DMU for a few years.

And I am sure backdating the class 45 into green isn't a five minute job, but sometimes maybe it is worth it just for gameplay.

They may have put time researcing the route, I don't doubt that and I am sure it will look magnificent but it won't be a particularly realistic representation of the route in 1963 operationally from what I can see.

I would be happy to pay for a loco pack afterwards if that is what it took.

 

I don't mind paying for a loco / gameplay pack, even if it's just a revised 101 and 45, as I understand that it may not fall within the budget of the route. I'm not ignorant of the fact that the commercial reality is that we're asking for a high-quality product in a very niche genre. I'd like however to see such a pack launch alongside the route so those of us who are happy paying for the extra locos and content can have them from day one rather than having to struggle through an empty or unrealistic timetable for months before it's looked at (a deluxe route, if you like).

 

Yes precisely. This is a niche route within a niche product, some will get it just to drive steam engines in stunning scenery which I totally get. But for me the beauty of train sims is you can recreate as realistically as possible a time long gone, as well as being able to be a driver on todays railway. For me this route falls short even though it should be right up my street.

There seems to be a return to loco packs and DLC so hopefully something may be in the pipeline, who knows.

 

Was there anything mentioned about the 101 from DTG side? Technically this unit can be implemented with a repaint.

The excuse "we just dont have the proper rolling stock wouldnt last long in this case"
Until i saw the trenton timtable i was sure it wasnt an excuse, but there they showed that dtg didnt want to take time for implementing it even if the stock is available.

Just hope this "lazyness flue" doesnt affect german and uk content.

 

I too would be more than happy to pay for a diesel loco pack to release along side the route but unless this happens or by some miracle they do put the diesels on then this one is currently a no buy which is sad as I have brilliant holiday memories as a young lad on this line and in this area.

It would be like doing a 2022 ECML route without IEPs or a modern WCML route without class 390s if there isn't a Peak on this route's expresses.

 

You are correct and what version is it? I am guessing a Class 40 & 45 in Green colours however in terms of achievement it's still counts towards the original Huddersfield line versions the Blue Coloured versions. In the case of Huddersfield line Class 47 the game treats it the same as West Somerset Railway version same way as how Pressnitztalbahn Baureihe 155 counts Ruhr Sieg Nord Baureihe 155 1550km Power Surge & Power Up level 10 achievements

 

The Peak is the BR class 45 which was previously included in NTP.

 

It would need a slight rework which if earlier reports are to go by is too much effort for DTG’s overworked 3D modellers and artists. However I would be content if they just repainted it and removed some of the more obvious modern paraphernalia like the ETH boxes and connections.

 

See, I am in two minds here.
I'd like to see it being accurate to the transition phase, as it would be pretty neat to see the mixture of traction, as most UK routes all feature the same (with exception of random 66s they're self contained Electric/ diesel or steam routes. Having a diesel steam route would be nice.

But at the same time, I dispise driving some of the diesels, especially the 101, so I'm equally happy to not see it appear.

 

Oh yes should have made that slightly clearer really and we would need the the headcode boxes added as well.

 

They sold the acela with tons of bundles.
So why dont they just release the route with the new fowler and add a proper green 45 vacuum braked + 101 as loco dlc, the services on top to the timetable?

The more rolling stock tsw has now, it seems to get obvious how DTG is wasting the entire potential of routes.

Even with a good amount of valid trains even ready for use, they seem to continue same development strategy as without the right stock in place.
How many times in release streams was mentioned "we dont have the needed loco at this point, so we didnt add this service".

Now in a lot of routes locos are in tsw and dtg continues the path of 5 years ago.
The result are 30 pages long threads like the one about the us content.

German content seems to be the only exception, there mostly the timetable has the entire variety of all available locos.

 

Agreed, especially with a more historic route where trains were much more varied. Even in 1963 with the rundown of steam and with diesels starting to dominate there would have been many different steam loco types in the area, some going back to Midland Railway days so the potential is there.

I still can't understand why SOS still has such an empty timetable yet we are now getting a new steam route with a new loco.

 

Is because, for SoS, to give both Jubilee and 8F their proper jobs they were given (both doing Express runs, except for Jub getting the commuters) while leaving enough space for future locos to fill in the gap for other services. Now granted it's been a while since SoS has been released, with no sign of a single DLC for it since (Was hoping for at least one before this happens). So it might indeed be empty for the time being.

And with this new route with a new steam loco, they might make the Timetable the same way like SoS or, due to feedback, fill in as much as possible with the locos that are in this route and see if it's possible to squeeze in a DLC later on. Depending on what the result is gonna be for the timetable, it's not gonna end well.

 

Not sure where the hook is in that business case, maybe they want to develop the manual fire mode first before going full into steam and enhanced timetables. I can immagine matt wants this as good as possible, so the strategy what loco addons will added is probably decided on the suite floor.

Not to forget the a.i steam trains need a lot of audio overhaul. They sound rather good on power, but totally unrealistic when departing. I hope this gets resolved with this addon.

 

Yeah the missing gaps in SOS are very noticeable and I'm suprised they didn't announce any dlc for it (although that may be due to finishing manual firing, steam physics etc?)

But judging by the scenery on last nights route preview I've got high expectations for the scenery on Peak Forest now, especially as its been made because its a beautiful scenic route.

Part of me (maybe wishfully so) hopes this will end up being more like what SOS should've been. Although the transition layers would be a great addition.

 

I would assume the silence relating to our collective feedback is a negative response (on both the proposed diesel gameplay pack and the Derby extension) - either that or DTG are playing secret bloody squirrel again until a week before release which is extremely frustrating.

I get that they don't want to overshadow the March releases but it would be nice to have some feedback.

To be frank, do DTG even understand the state that Spirit of Steam has been left in?

- No loco DLC and empty timetable (that still uses AI timings which are impossible to meet)
- No audio from AI locomotives
- Blood & custard coaches still don't spawn/substitute properly
- Lamps are wrong on almost every train (red lamps on front of trains usually)
- Fireman still has a habit of randomly disappearing (especially when you start on foot)
- Manual firing seems to have been abandoned, there have been essentially zero updates on it in months

The only issues which seem to have been publicly acknowledged are the AI SPADs (which I've never encountered anyway) and the outstanding physics fix for the low-speed drafting which still hasn't arrived, even though this was apparently close to being finished when I spoke to Matt at Warley nearly four months ago. It appears to an outsider that getting steam working in full has been completely sidelined and dropped down the priority list at DTG Towers.

The point I'm trying to make is that I'm (justifiably) nervous that the second steam route will go off in a similar way, and it would be good to have some reassurance.

As ever, I'm entirely happy to be pleasantly surprised on any of the above - I'm not a dyed-in-the-wool whinger on matters TSW, I just want to see the best product possible and we know that DTG can deliver when they want to.

 

No diesels in a route set in the transition era, despite having the 101 ready to use, probably means dtg wants us slowly prepare and get used to skinny timetables etc., there has to be a reason the route ends right infront derby.

Or the plan to sell other full scale timetables when all stock is available.

Anyway its highly concerning.

 

I am not sure if it will be what SOS should have been. SOS goes from a mainline and important junction station to a major city terminus. The new route goes from an obscure junction station where most express train don't stop to a slightly more important junction station serving a a village which just happens to be at the junction where the line through the Peaks meets the Hope valley.

SOS should be a far busier and immersive route traffic wise. If this new route ends up having a busier timetable than SOS it brings DTG's very odd decision making into full view for all to see.

 

Yeahh I totally agree. What I mean is its a smaller route couple of locos where a smaller timetable would do it more justice and it wouldn't seem big and empty like SOS is. As in maybe they should've looked at a small route like this first to test the waters and iron out some of the bugs that came with steam before doing something bigger. Padded it out with a little dlc or something and then they'd have more experience and stock to fill a Crewe - Limestreet timetable Wasn't trying to add a direct comparison to SOS to the route

 

Confirmed in today's roadmap - no diesels, no Derby extension with Peak Forest.

 

It says it is based on the 1963 timetable so will there be a Buxton to Millers Dale passenger service I wonder. It even refers to the route being set during the period of dieselisation yet won't reflect that!

 

Its nice to see that Banking will be included but still feeling a little uncertain for this route especially now theres a confirmed lack of Diesels?

 

My money is on a diesel enhancement pack, similar to the NTP freight one

 

You are probably correct and I hope that is the case. The extra variety of having steam and diesel mixed might make just forgive it starting at Ambergate, which despite their comments on the roadmap, I still think is a completely bizarre place to start a route.

 

It breaks my heart that I don't think I will get this route despite my enthusiasm for steam, if I had the same ability as I have with TSC to 'correct' some of DTG's more questionable choices that they seem keen on enforcing with the simulator I would happily purchase the route.

 

Same here. I really wanted this to be the route of the year for me, but DTG just blew a huge raspberry in everyone's face by disregarding community feedback about the southern starting point and the fact tin 1963 the route probably saw more diesel hauled trains than steam, anyway. A parallel kick in the face for those of us still waiting the fixes to SoS both physics and the spurious SPAD's, disgraceful these have to wait for PF release and still might not come then.

Unless DTG pull an 11th hour change of heart, I fear this is now going on the backburner for the Xmas sale.

 

I have to agree. This new release will need something very special in it to make me pay full price for it!
As for SoS, I've joined the DTG ranks and given up on it. I doubt that it will ever be fixed. I dread to think what Peaks Forrest is going to be like. No Doubt another Bug Fest? But, still I may be in for a pleasant surprise, and find it's ok.

 

It's especially disenheartening given that DTG already has a stable of diesels that were in service in 1963 (Classes 08, 09, 20, 31, 33, 37, 40, 45, 47, 52, 101) which would only need a bit of tweaking and a coat of green paint.

 

Despite the great scenery I think I will skip Peak Forest until the class 08/45/111 diesel pack comes out, or it’s 80% off in a sale. Otherwise it’ll just be another route like SoS lacking credible AI services and sporting under-developed steam locomotive physics.

 

Same here, it will look lovely but I just can't get over Ambergate as a starting point despite DTG's reasons.

I am still fed up with the fact that the much more logical SOS route has such a poor timetable, they have done nothing to address that yet are building a new steam route where SOS feels half finished.

 

Yeah, the scenery looks brilliant but with undercooked steam physics remaining and a timetable that can't possibly be anything close to realistic... I might end up leaving this one on the shelf too.

Also, on the note of the timetable (and specifically the freight timetable which DTG couldn't source) - I would say that there are copies of the 1963 Passenger and Freight Working Timetables sat in the National Archives in Kew, and they'll even scan them and send them to you if you pay them.

Passenger | The National Archives
Freight (For operation to June 1964) | The National Archives

 

No diesels, no buy. Simple as that for me.
Confirm a diesel enhancement pack with 45/0, 111 and 08, I'll think about it.

 

I'll wait until the preview stream for the route (which would be a while, I know). Between the timetable and Ambergate, the results of this route is somehow gonna be concerning, more so if the feedback have been ignored for various reasons. And fixing the steam physics alone is not gonna help either.

Do hope some sort of Diesel pack is in the talks right now (otherwise, why do a 1963s timetable if all the services are powered by steam only), it'll be a real shame for Peak Forest to get shelved after bug fixes without any other locos that could be added in like SoS is at right now.

 

Can't we just buy the 4f and layer it into the dead liverpool to crewe route

 

No you can't.