Hi guys, I tried the journey the last couple of days but the entire route makes me unconfortable because I have really problems reading the signaling. I've had problems with LIRR, too but Peninsula is a whole new level of "christmas tree mode". Excuse me but WTF? Of course I read the manual and the 10 (!) pages about the signaling, even searched for myself if there is a comprehensive version of all that -> http://signals.jovet.net/rules/Caltrain Signal Rules.pdf Now my desk is cluttered with printed signals and still I have no idea what I'm doing while driving. At least I understood, that the green/yellow arrows with WHITE letters show the line speed, before that I've had no idea. The entire theme of "speed" with that medium, limited, slow approach doesen't click with me. Without HUD I'm unable to be successfull and all I do is staring at the HUD then. And this annoys me ;-) So ... does anyone have a maybe "easy way of understanding" for that signals? Is there a rule like "ignore the three left rows and go only with the most right if there are incredibly much of them"? I work in IT but that code is too much for me while driving a train at 50 mph hehe How are you guys doing this? It's so different than Germany ;-) Kind regards!
The simplest Rule of all: If everything is SOLID RED then STOP else continue.. The top light tells you: Green: Clear Blinking Yellow: Advanced Approach Solid Yellow: Approach Red: Limiting You have the normal slow down progression from the top light with all other solid red: Green: Clear for Line-speed Blinking yellow: Advanced Approach - Slow down to limited 50/40 Solid yellow: Approach - Slow down to medium 35/25, slow down to stop bevor next signal Red: Stop Then there are multiple Approaches (Top yellow and more colors) Blinking Green: slow down to limited bevor the next signal. Solid Green: slow down to medium bevor next signal. Solid Yellow: slow down to slow bevor next signal. Blinking Red: slow down to restricted bevor next signal. Red: slow down to stop bevor next signal. Then you have limiting signals with the top light red, those act as speed-limit over junctions, once you are over all switches with the whole train, you are allowed to go back to the speed that the signals below it gives you. The speed limit is determined by the second and third light: red-blinking: limited red-solid: medium red-red-no red: slow red-red-blinking red: restricted all red: stop What you do after is determined by the other colors: Green light: Clear blinking yellow: Advanced Approach solid yellow: Approach The simple ones are the limit-clear aspects: red-blinking green: limited speed over junctions, then clear red-green: medium speed over junctions, then clear red-red-green: slow speed over junctions, then clear The limiting aspects can be combined with an Advanced Approach: red-blinking yellow: limited speed over junctions, then advanced approach red-red-blinking yellow: slow speed over junctions, then advanced approach (There is no possibility of medium advanced approach, since for medium the second light is solid) Limiting can also be combined with Approach: red-yellow: medium speed over junctions, then approach red-red-yellow: slow speed over junctions, then approach red-yellow-green: medium speed over junctions, then approach medium red-yellow-yellow: medium speed over junctions, then approach slow red-yellow-blinking red: medium speed over junctions, then approach restricted Now in terms of signal progression: Most times you will have clear - advanced approach - approach - stop On high speed parts you may have clear - approach limited - advanced approach - approach - stop On lower speed parts you may only have clear - approach - stop When you drive towards a medium diversion you may encounter clear - approach limited - approach medium - medium clear When you drive towards a yard with slow turnout and restricted entry, you may have clear - approach limited - approach medium - approach slow - slow approach restricted - restricted I hope this helps you to understand them better
I'm sure the justification is that this makes things safer but frankly it seems more like a way to restrict the pool of engineers (drivers). Come back PZB - all is forgiven!
Wow, thank you Sintbert ! Thank you so much for taking the time to write all this down, this is exactly what I was looking for! I understand the logic now and the rest is "just" learning, so much appreciated! By the way this is the second time your reply to one of my questions enlightens me immediately
I honestly need to have all this dumbed down and fed to me in video tutorial form....this is one confusing signalling system. It just seems over-complicated by having up to 7x3 banks of lights. Like you say, its like a Christmas Tree....
Its never 7x3.. its always just up to 3 lights on top of each other. In the manual they show every possible combination to get to a sign. Basically you can just ignore all the reds from the bottom up, and so the simple signs are just one light. Approach are 1-2 lights and a limiting sign is 2-3 lights.
Some nice prosa regarding the Christmas Tree, with already mentioned annotations. I'll copy Sintbert's great instructions into word and will replace all the written aspects with that cool Y/R/G/*flash* - style just to shorten it a little bit and adding a nice reminder about the speed limits as an info-box. I want this all on a single DIN-A4 page. Of course, when finished and tested I'll share my work with you guys! --- So what is interesting is that Caltrain started with the typical "Northeast" style signal set with Y/Y as Approach Slow and *Y* as Advance Approach, but dumped the use of "bottom yellow" in Restricting signals, using *R* instead. With bottom yellows now free R/Y and R/R/Y could be tasked to Medium and Slow Approach. The system retains some Western influences with the Approach Restricting aspect and Caltrain also added some innovative new aspects such as R/*Y* as Limited Advance Approach, R/R/*Y* as Slow Advance Approach and R/Y/*R* as Medium Approach Restricting. They also logically extended the Northeast style system by using R/Y/Y as Medium Approach Slow. Because no automatic signal aspect requires 3 heads (a problem caused by using Y/R/G for Approach Slow) Caltrain was able to adopt a uniform visual aesthetic for its signals (probably to the delight of its vendor, US&S) by fitting all standard block signals with 1 head, distant signals with 2 heads and interlocking signals with 3 heads. Each head in turn was fitted with all three lamps, if they were needed or not. This gives the engineer an easy way of identifying what sort of signal they are facing, even if it means Caltrain spent a lot more outfitting signal lamps that would never need to be illuminated. On some of the 4+ track home signal gantries this can lead to quite the interesting Christmas Tree effect, especially when flashing aspects are involved.
Of course..thanks. I feel like a bit of a numpty now as I know full well I haven't seen a 7x3 arrangement after driving this route :S The way the manual illustrated it just threw me a little.
Nice info! I had to look in the manual when i came across R/*R* for restricting, cause it didn't make intuitive sense. Your explanation makes the logic much more clear.
I may be a bit late to this thread, but I wrote the PDF you linked, so I'd like to try and help you or anyone else reading this. I promise you, the signaling system is not as complicated as it may seem at first. My suggestion for everyone is to read this page: Al Krug's Signals Explanation (internet archive) It is a shame Mr. Krug's signal page disappeared from the internet a while back, but that page should give you insight into the fundamental logic. The signal schema he describes there is not the same as used on the route, but the basic logic is the same. All trains are subject to multiple speed limits at a given time. The train must be operated to not exceed the lowest speed required of any of those speed limits. For example, an entire division or subdivision may have a general speed limit for freight trains at 60 MPH, but curves or changing tracks or cargo requirements or other dangers may require a permanent lower speed restriction in certain areas. Signals give transient speed limits... they are limited in time and/or area affected (e.g. only at a junction, or up to the next signal). At a junction, for example, a signal will only require you to be going slower if you are changing tracks. Slow, Medium, and Limited speed are standard speed limits generally employed by some railroads when a train changes tracks. These speed limit names usually represent the same speed all across a railroad or subdivision. All you have to do is read the signal aspect to know what speed is required now or ahead. While usually only used when changing tracks, these speed limits can be invoked other times to enforce safe train handling (such as slowing down before a stop). Be careful. Signal rules where those lower Reds matter do exist. Those lower red(s) are key on some signals for various railroads, such as where R/G (Red over Green) or R/R/G means Slow Clear, but R/G/R means Medium Clear. Some dwarf signals have similar requirements for a lower Red. In actuality, they are always as much of a part of the signal aspect as all the other lights. The signal aspect observed must be in the rulebook in order to be valid; if it's not a valid signal aspect, then the signal has to be treated as if it's malfunctioning. Some railroads have rule exceptions which allows any of those "lower reds" to be dark (except where the signal rule explicitly requires it) without affecting the intended signal indication or invoking an improperly displayed signal.
Oh, that's too bad. I'm struggling with these signals and was hoping this would help me. I'll figure them out eventually, I hope.
Where specifically do you have problems? I would start with a printed table of the speed limits for the different approach/limiting colors, helps a lot.
That would help! The official manual is a mess, imo. I'll see what I can figure out, if I can't find any online
...a big thumbs-up for putting all of this signaling info together- really appreciate it! I think (think, mind you) I might finally be getting a handle on this after all of this time. We’ll see what my retention is like after a few weeks. ;-)
Jovet- really appreciate you putting all of this signaling info together as well. I’ve actually ran into your signaling pdf quite a few times on the web already (thanks for putting that together too)... but having that, as well as the signaling info that Al Krug put together, is (finally) helping me figure out how to make sense of these signals. Thanks for the good info!
so I guess this route has similar safety stuff situation as much newer Antelope Valley Line where only Alerter is enforced and the rest is up to you to follow?
