Penzance Route. Made By The Wonderful Rivet Games!!!!

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by aglomarsale, Oct 11, 2021.

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  1. Yes, I dont care who makes the route

    22.0%
  2. No, but I dont care who makes the route

    8.1%
  3. No, because this is a RIVET games product

    21.6%
  4. Yes, because this is a RIVET games product

    0.8%
  5. I will wait and see.

    47.5%
  1. aglomarsale

    aglomarsale Well-Known Member

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    Unpopular opinion:


    I wanted it very bad since it appeared on the roadmap, but after knowing it is made by RIVET games, I dont want it. I wish DTG made it, but oh well. Why am I not gonna get it? Its just RIVET, right?!

    --Horrendous customer service, in live streams and posts, when we critisize the route a lot, for the betterment of the route, they (very usually) say "If you dont like it, dont buy it.". Instead of actually taking more effort and improving it, they say these, and a few other commonly used phrases.
    (DTG also uses this card, but quite rarely. And Unlike RIVET, dtg actually puts more effort and if we're lucky, fixes them)

    --The route releases with millions of bugs, and almost all are left. They are almost never fixed, unless the extreme community pressure forces them to. Just look at IOW, AROSA, etc. Trash

    --They spend way too much time on modelling the trains (fine, acceptable) but from what us the players see, the sounds are usually terrible. They dont balance their stuff.

    --Scenery fully done by RIVET is ATROCIOUS. How hard can it be to place morEe trees?????? And last time they were asked this question, they said "tO hAve bEttER pErFormnCE". come on. Look at clinchfield. SPG. Heck, even WSR.

    -- Their response, and just the way RIVET handles negative customer feedback, is terrible. The mindset needs to change asap.

    Oh and did I also tell that the routes are released with millions of bugs that never get fixed?

    RIVET's attitude towards their customers is extremely, almost unrealistically, terrible. It's like we are the cows and they just give us roten, spoilt food and expect milk. Don't believe me? Just look at the 1938 stock, due to release soon.


    Overall, They just dont prioritize everything right, its very unbalanced, and things are weighed on the lighter difficulty side.

    i could go on for hours about RIVET, but I have to mow the lawn.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
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  2. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I've voted no. I'll be interested to watch the stream and see but as above they're happier to focus on new money than existing issues. A very big if I buy on this will be letting other people play QA and leave feedback here. I too am concerned with their approach
     
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  3. Jamy

    Jamy Well-Known Member

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    You could say the same about DTG with the recent balls ups thats come from them.
    I will purchase the route for two simple reasons
    1. I only play UK stuff so the time gap between when DTG will make another UK route will be 8 months and then it will probably be another 3rd rail electrified route
    2. It will be nice to drive the classic Class 150 instead of the Electrostar
     
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  4. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Poll needs a wait and see option, so not voting at this time as that will be my play.
     
  5. thundergaming11

    thundergaming11 Well-Known Member

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    I'll wait till the 2nd/3rd preview stream. Does seem to be the case that Rivet are great on the models but not so great with sound sourcing and mixing, which tbh in these times i can sort of understand the difficulty but it's not like it's impossible to implement right? I saw a comment on YouTube last saying that the 150 will be using AP sounds.
     
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  6. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Well-Known Member

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    So basically you’ve created a thread telling us how you’re not going to be buying the route then? Good to know.

    I don’t see how anyone can make a judgement when we haven’t had a preview stream of the full route. Make up your mind after this.
     
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  7. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Every thought process is a valid one and I echo the OP
     
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  8. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    I think the main judgement here is based on their handling of issues with previously released routes. Even knowing how the forums overreact to any issues with DTG releases ("the footbridge is the wrong colour, this route is unplayable", etc), the general feedback about Rivet seems to be particularly gloomy. Initial reviews are going to have the be glowing for me to even consider an early purchase.
     
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  9. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    Well, personally i wouldn't care too much about initial reviews [except there really is a gamebreaking bug where TSW dies after 2 minutes of playing]. These reviews are mostly unbalanced: Either someone is like "Oh the best route ever" or "Nop, i hate this so much" - and both of them haven't played very much at that point. Initial reviews can be very misleading. I would rather wait for the very first live stream and judge by myselfs before i read ANY comment on this forum. And after i made up my mind I switch to the forums and read what other may think of it. But I won't let other people muddy my judgement before I judged by myselfs. Sure, Rivet hasn't prouced the best products yet. One should be cautious before buying. But it's still fair to give them a chance to convince me.
     
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  10. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    The point being: whatever is mentioned in the initial reviews of a Rivet product seems unlikely to be fixed. With DTG, the early issues are generally picked up and fixed within an update or two, but people are still complaining about the same old issues with Arosa.
     
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  11. aglomarsale

    aglomarsale Well-Known Member

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    I see nothing wrong with what I said. I stated that RIVET has a not so good reputation and their quality of work isn't up to TSW2 standards. Yes, more 3rd party devs are welcomed but that doesnt mean that they can just have bad priorities and not care about the customers that spent their hard earned bucks on their own products. Its like RIVET just moves on and produces new DLCs instead of actually fixing old ones that might get more sales later on.
     
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  12. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    It woudln't have been a day 1 buy for me, but I love seaside routes and I like the Class 150, also I wanted to try out old british content and this seemed a cool starting point.

    But the lack or Rivet's commitment to maintain old DLC is a deal breaker for me, even if it's the best DLC by every measure, if the next year's update breaks it and it won't get fixed it's no good. I am buying the 187 from Skyhook hoping they have a different policy, but given the lack of any fixes to Cane Creek I have some doubts.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2021
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  13. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure Rivet are only too aware of many members opinions.
    One can optimistically hope it has had an effect.


    More than happy to sit on the fence.
    (You get a better view)
     
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  14. SprattyHeath

    SprattyHeath Well-Known Member

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    At this current point in time I have no interest in their upcoming WCL UK route, it looks shockingly bad.

    Whilst their 150 is modelled rather well, they are completely oblivious to the fact they used reference material from the PRESENT DAY 150 and their route is actually set around the 90s. The cab includes safety functions including TPWS, DRA and OTDR and none of those afaik existed at that point in time. (TPWS wasn't even fully implemented until about the early-mid 2000s for goodness sake!)

    The route itself is by far the biggest disappointment I've ever seen, so many areas look incredibly dire and unfinished, St Ives looks like an abandoned island, Penzance has a forest in the background when it's situated METRES away from the Atlantic ocean, the ballast texture is the wrong shade and the lighting looks incredibly dismal.

    Is this really the best that Rivet can offer us? I've lost my entire faith with them after the disaster that was Arosa, and it's increasingly concerning me that they are going to continue to release products that are not even of sub par quality and use unjustifiable excuses such as "it's a console limitation" or "licensing issues" etc as if that's a reason to give us content that that has a level of quality I would come to expect from old games like MSTS...
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
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  15. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Finish your BML mod first please! :)
     
  16. SprattyHeath

    SprattyHeath Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but I'm not sure how it is relevant here, It will be released when it's ready thank you...
     
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  17. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Cathcart is made by rivets help too. I dont know how much they have been involved, but i really enjoy the route.

    I hope rivet realizes how important customer support is. Im patient and just happy to get a new train, but there are people who are buying nothing from rivet because their past with iow or arosa.

    For me i hope they get the cash to survive, because the rolling stock is nice and there are just not enough 3rd party devs for tsw2 right now.
     
  18. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    A very definite wait and see. And, only when on sale.
     
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  19. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    After RH, I'm not buying anything else for TSW until it's in a sale and I'm satisfied with peer reviews/feedback.
     
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  20. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    I’m not too fussed about the route until we can get some DLC for it, just going to be a little too bland with only 150’s and the odd 37.

    This DLC for me is all about finally getting a 150 in TSW, so it really depends how good it is, and then I’ll get it on a sale.

    In any case I certainly will not be buying it on release because of the DLC cap on PS5, and the fact that I’ve just been sold £35 worth of DLC when 2 thirds of it barely works and still hasn’t been fixed, so yeah, not going be buying into yet another release which will only presumably buggy and will remain in said state for months.
     
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  21. Southern Driver

    Southern Driver Active Member

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    What I would say on this is that to not include the HST is just absurd. I’m sure there are very good reasons, but you cannot release a route without its core traction and the HST is core traction for the route.
     
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  22. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. I certainly would have expected an HST. Maybe this’ll be a nice surprise on Friday, but I doubt it somehow.
     
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  23. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I think a nice surprise will be

    Decent water textures
    Non generic scenery
    A working train
    A decent timetable
    Distant scenery not being blamed for fps
    No Excuses, wait and sees or…. Not yets

    I’m asking a lot I know
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2021
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  24. trainsimgaming1001

    trainsimgaming1001 Well-Known Member

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    Thats basically like Releasing Brighton Main Line without the 377 or Releasing NTP without the 101. The Penzance-St Austell Section is most well known (at least iin the 90s) for the InterCity Services. While I am glad we got a New Operator and a New Train, choosing the 37 over the HST is a huge mistake. I only hope that they will make a DLC for the InterCity 125 in the Correct Livery
     
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  25. Ravi

    Ravi Active Member

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    I think the community is giving up on Rivet easily. I know they messed up the previous 2 routes, but I feel we need to cut them some slack as they are also new to this. Do we not remember the disasters of DTG's earlier routes? They have now gotten way better at it. Same with Rivet, they are still learning. Just look at Skyhook and Cane Creek. Skyhook's locos are solid, the BR101 in particular shines. But the full sized route is a different beast and Cane Creek is not that good. They have some basic stuff messed up in there. I think Rivet taking on Arosa as their second route was probably not good idea as that route clearly needs overhaul in terms of pretty much everything. I think it was a case of getting overly ambitious. They should have taken a different route to learn about stuff and the Arosa line could have definitely benefitted from the assets released with Clinchfield DLC. But, I, for one, am interested to see what they do in Penzance.
     
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  26. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Not a new operator - it's still British Rail.
    Yes it's the first train in Regional Railways colours, but even then RR has technically been in TSW before - Tees Valley. The 101s just weren't painted into RR livery until the mid-90s.
     
  27. trainsimgaming1001

    trainsimgaming1001 Well-Known Member

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    Thats what I mean.
     
  28. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    Proof of the pudding is in the eating. Rivet did a great job on Cathcart Circles’s scenery, but are they capable or willing to do the same on this route? The 150 looks incredible, but will it work properly? Will it sound good? Friday is make or break. First impressions count.
     
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  29. Lunar_Twisted

    Lunar_Twisted Well-Known Member

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    This is a wait and see for me because it's Rivet Games. I'm usually cautious with their products, especially after the release of Arosaline.
     
  30. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    I do not hold out for a good design from RIVET. The initial images of Penzance and St. Ives were absolutely atrocious and an insult to these two charming seaside resorts and not up to the standards DTG and others have set. I wrote to them and Jasper responded saying they will be doing their best to recreate these resort’s accurately. I am looking forward to seeing their final product, but as I said, I don’t hold out for an improvement. I hope I am wrong and the release is impressive, but I have my doubts that it will be.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2021
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  31. rjeeves#3580

    rjeeves#3580 New Member

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    I voted wait and see. I'll be honest, I don't really care who makes the route. I'm going to watch the preview streams and any others that pop up on YouTube and then make a decision. Fine details don't mean too much to me (I remember when BVE was just getting popular and translated over from Japaneese). As long as the route looks good (not perfect) I don't really mind, as long as I'm going to have fun driving. To me the wonderful scenery on some routes (looking at you Dresden) is a bonus.
     
  32. sergio volodstok

    sergio volodstok Active Member

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    Not buying it anytime soon.. Rivet needs to change their attitude towards (potential) customers if they want to earn any trust or respect..
     
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  33. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that a ‘chance’ is basically £24.99 a pop, so “cutting them some slack” is getting expensive.

    Ive now had chance to watch the 38 stock stream and can see why that had such a bad reaction, so yeah that’s 3 products that rivet have produced in poor condition, so I think the community is well within fair game to be sceptical about this DLC too.

    Also they literally seem to be refusing to fix anything at the moment, so why would anyone give them another opportunity to take their money and run?

    I thought Rivet may be struggling with route building because of the time it takes, but they’ve now proven that they also cannot produce decent loco only DLC.

    Frankly it’s abit of a shame for me that they have produced one of my all time favourite trains, because I’m really quite worried about it now.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
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  34. heyitspopcorn

    heyitspopcorn Well-Known Member

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    I think the problem is going to be, in part, set by Dovetail's pricing policy. After Steam/Epic/Microsoft/Sony take their cut, and DTG take their cut, it probably is pretty hard to find enough money to pay for further development or bug-fixing.

    Unfortunately, until there is a slightly more open market (like for TS)--which would probably be limited to PC--or Dovetail allow third party developers to set their own price points (and justify that value to customers), there is likely not going to be any significant third party route development.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
  35. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Iow got its update, and the route is enjoyable to drive. There is even a pis and hovercraft mod.

    So if somebody doesnt like iow now, its maybe the wrong route for this person..
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
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  36. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    This theory is getting floated about only because a 1 man dev team said so in an email, and another dev has expressed their dismay regarding content pricing.

    While I see that there are financial issues with creating content for TSW when it comes to small niche dev teams, clearly the bigger dev groups are making money from this venture, otherwise they wouldn’t be so heavily invested in making the content, Rivet games is currently worth what, £800k, I’m pretty sure an extra couple of weeks in content testing and development won’t be impacting their bottom line, in any case they aren’t getting my sympathy for selling faulty content that they don’t remedy.

    The products they’ve put out so far have been sub par, and I’m not going to be buying more sub par products from them.
     
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  37. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    There is always the 2 hour refund policy for Steam users, though the downside is if you use it too regularly Valve can flag your account and start to refuse refunds.
    In the case of a route DLC it is rather less than 2 hours after you wearily plod through the mandatory intro then have to figure out the vagaries of getting a train moving (looking at you DB electric units).
     
  38. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    You don't have to - as soon as it loads, pause and go back to the main menu if you don't want to do it.
     
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  39. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, I wasn't actually aware of that!
     
  40. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    I think DTG want give Rivet the Class 43 for layers even it’s the wrong time
     
  41. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Active Member

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    Arosa is trash and they refuse to fix it. Any other developer would of dropped rivet by now for alienating the consumers, but what do I know ‍♂️
     
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  42. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Well console players can't mod the game so they don't get those benefits
     
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  43. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    I feel this sentiment. If they announced my local route was coming to TSW2 and it wasn't DTG building it, I'd be pretty disappointed knowing it was unlikely to live up to the promise of their newest routes.

    I was just about to say the same thing. Rivet need to do the job to a satisfactory level on their own and convince us that their product is worth the money... and try not to be completely outpaced by the DTG push for features and detail.
     
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  44. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    Some good points but being new to it is not really an excuse as we are still being charged full price for the products. I don’t think they are learning because learning isn’t just developing new DLC but also customer service. The problems with earlier routes need to be given priority (i.e. the actual bugs and problems, not the “nice to have” things).

    Their excuse of being a small company who can’t afford to have a preservation crew is only valid as far as non essential improvements are concerned. Fixing game breaking bugs and problems must be a priority.
     
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  45. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I’ll have to wait and see. It won’t be purely because it’s a Rivet route but that is a factor because they are yet to prove their DLC can be an all round package. The main issue is I can’t buy anything at the moment due to the PS5 limit issue meaning paying money is a gamble to say the least. That should give me time to evaluate how good the route is from other people’s feedback and videos.

    I liked the concept of Arosalinie and got some use out of it, liking some bits of it very much, but it is now broken again and it had a rubbish broken timetable to start with. There was a lack of attention to detail in what is required for a route to be good to play. IoW is better but it didn’t blow many people away and the 38 stock for Bakerloo isn’t inspiring much in me either as I’ve explained elsewhere. They did some good work for DTG on Cathcart so they do have it in them.

    The scope of this route was increased during planning but will it go far enough with the timetable to make it worthwhile? The trains will look good but that won’t be enough for me, I’ve got plenty of good looking trains already, it’ll have to also be a good looking route with interesting services. With so much content already, third party developers are going to have to make stuff at least approaching the quality of DTG’s content to get me to part with my money. If this turns out great, I’ll buy it as soon as the PS5 issue has a workaround that doesn’t involve uninstalling stuff all the time.
     
  46. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Active Member

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    upload_2021-10-12_16-45-15.png

    Please read, this was announced today when somebody enquired about the quality of current DLC.
     
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  47. 4-COR

    4-COR Well-Known Member

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    sounds are still atrocious and the scenery around brading is just poor
     
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  48. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    Just empty words...
     
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  49. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Didn't they say something similar before? Wonder if they'll actually fix the issues
     
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  50. JellyScrub

    JellyScrub Member

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    Until they actually do the fixes, and not just saying they're working on it, you just have to assume its not happening.
     
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