Penzance To St. Austell And St. Ives.

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by nwp1, Apr 20, 2021.

  1. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I agree, I think the Falmouth Branch would have added more as it would have given us a proper interchange at Truro, plus with the gradients, tunnels and viaducts it is quite a different branch to the St. Ives one. I don't really see what adding St. Austell offers, apart from another few route miles.

    I am pleased that it is going to be set in the early 90's, although I would have preferred even earlier. I wonder if we might get a IC Swallow liveried class 47, although you would really need some air conditioned mark 2's to go with it.
     
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  2. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    I fancy a nineties route, this is better than gwr green
     
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  3. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    The "only" problem with 1990's Cornwall routes will be the limited traffic. There is literally 1 train an hour going up and 1 train an hour coming down. I believe Truro to St Austell was single line- which maybe why they are doing it- to create a bit of a difference.

    They only "redoubled" the line in the early 2000's.

    From Wiki

    "the 7.5-mile (12.1 km) section of single track from Burngullow to Probus (between the stations at St Austell and Truro) used to be a major cause of delays in the region, requiring trains to wait for preceding trains to clear the singled section before proceeding. The second track was restored in August 2004. The total cost of the project was £14.3 million and was funded by Objective One, Strategic Rail Authority and Cornwall County Council."

    This could be the game play everyone is after. We have to sit and wait for the up/down train to come through before proceeding. :)
    D
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2021
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  4. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    It was redoubled in 2004, I found this out when I looked into backdating the TS1 Cornish Mainline. It went from Probus to Burngullow. It will add a bit of operation interest I suppose. St. Austell just seems a really odd place to start the route!
     
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  5. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I agree plus, potentially it is a far more operationally interesting period than post privatisation, particularly the Voyager period and beyond.
     
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  6. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Looks cool. I want it.
     
  7. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    The "Logical" place to start it would be Par...as you have got the St Blazey depot there.

    You could go depot to depot...

    D
     
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  8. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    Same
     
  9. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I find the extension to St Austell a bit odd, it's ""only"" an extra 5 miles to a more logical place (IMO), Par. If they only had 10-15 miles to extend the route, I'd have gone for Falmouth personally as it fits more in the theme of "west cornwall locals". It's nice to see another late BR/sectorised route.

    That's a modified unbranded version Anglia did. This is the proper one (imagine without the black Northern logo).
    [​IMG]

    However I geta feeling we may get this instead. I don't know if it's just no one photographed these and put them on the internet, or if there genuinely were not many 150/2s in the above livery, but this one below seems more common:
    [​IMG]
     
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  10. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Regarding the liveries, it depends what year they choose and how accurate they decide to be, unless it is generic early 90's. I don't think the 150/2's appeared in any great numbers in Regional Railways until 1994 at least. Looking at my platform 5 book for 1993 most class 150/2's, indeed most Sprinters (apart from the class 158's) were still in their Provincial livery, the bottom photo in the post above.
     
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  11. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Yes I agree, Par would be much better starting point. However logic doesn't always seem to fit the planning of TSW routes. St Austell seems a bit like starting the Brighton Mainline at Merstham!
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2021
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  12. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Is it just the 153s that only ever wore the standard RR livery (post conversion)?

    Most sprinters that weren't in Provincial livery were actually in regional variations, the 155s went into WYPTE (West Yorkshire) crimson & cream, some 156s in the north west were in RRNW livery (standard RR livery but with the light blue stripe in green) or in the faux-158 express livery (I think for the Liverpool-Norwich run?). 150s were most diverse, they were in Merseyrail, GMPTE (Manchester) and Centro (Birmingham), and there were of course the 158s which got a special livery because they were special, and 159s which wore Network South East livery.

    Also, found this while double checking the above: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...gate_Street_railway_station_MMB_02_150013.jpg

    10 points to whoever put that in.
     
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  13. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Yes it was only the class 153's which only every wore standard Regional Railways livery.

    I had forgotten about the Regional Railways Express class 156's, I don't think I ever managed to see any of those. They were my favourite Sprinter class, they came through Stourbridge mainly on Hereford services and sometimes on a Cardiff service due to unavailable class 155's. Anyway, I digress.
     
  14. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    Love that graphic of a sprinter jumping out from the blocks :D

    I think people of any age find nostalgia in what they remember. If you are young enough that early 1990s is before your time then it might not resonate. I don't have any nostalgia for the 1970s, I don't remember a thing, but late 80s onwards is my sweet spot. We still need a BR Swallow livery in-game.
     
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  15. Tom Fresco

    Tom Fresco Well-Known Member

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    Maybe someone should Update the title of the thread. :)

    But im getting quite exciting for this route, even though i like modern routes more (but if it has safety systems, its modern enough for me (looking at you, NTP))

    What is the line speed on this route?
    Will we roll along the line like WSR or can you get up to reasonable speeds for a HST (which also comes with the Route i think?)
     
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  16. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Some people like older routes. You not liking something does not make it a bad choice. Occasionally, every now and then, you are going to find that something isn’t quite to your liking.
     
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  17. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    Time periods are probably THE most divisive topic in the TSW community, for those who aren't happy with the time period of this route: don't worry. I'm sure we'll get plenty more modern British routes in the future.

    If they aren't gonna do an HST, I could easily see them doing 47s plus Mark 2 coaches in Swallow livery, that would actually be pretty cool. I believe these were used on the long distance cross country type services around this time? Correct me if I'm wrong.
     
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  18. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    St Austell seems kind of pointless to me, the next logical location to the east would have been Par. By the 1990s the infrastructure was literally the Up and Down line, the ground frame crossover and former Motorail spur being out of use.

    I wonder if this is being done to possibly hike the price, make £24.99 look more attractive.
     
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  19. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Or Ruhr-Sieg Nord at Finnentrop.......
     
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  20. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    Stopping at Truro made sense- if going to Falmouth.

    St Austell only makes sense if including the Parkandillack- Burngullow minerals line? You could have some 37/47 type action on that stretch of line with clay waggons going towards Par/Fowey...

    Otherwise Par would be the logical conclusion.

    The other thought is...that stretch of line includes the only two proper tunnels on the western stretch of line...
    D
     
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  21. Warspite

    Warspite Active Member

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    Although they might not model the line from Burngullow to Parkandillack, if the route is set in "the early 1990s", they still have to model Blackpool dryers on the main line at Burngullow, including the new slurry plant which was commissioned in 1989. Blackpool generated a lot of traffic as did Parkadillack. I visited the area many times in the late 1980s and 1990s and there was always traffic at Burngullow. In this image, taken off a video I took in 1997, you can see 37521 in EWS livery on CDAs, together with another class 37 with PBA Tigers and one of the ECCI ex-BR 08s, either 'Susan' or 'Annabel', in the background. This is looking towards St Austell with the single track main line on the right.

    Blackpool Sidings Burngullow 1992.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2021
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  22. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    Just confirmed to me on Twitter, that they are not doing the Parkandillack branch...
     
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  23. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I wonder why they decided to extend to St. Austell. It seems like a bit of a token gesture to me, not that extra route mileage isn't welcome, I just tend to like a route to have a logical start and end point. Adding the Falmouth branch in my mind would have been more logical. It will feel a bit of a shame passing Penwithers Junction and seeing the branch going off into the distance but without the opportunity to use it.
     
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  24. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Probably to please the people who want to give whatever the diesel electric thing is a longer run, and 'stretch its legs'.
     
  25. Warspite

    Warspite Active Member

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    That's a shame as it would have added a lot of interest to the eastern part of the route. It's just over 5 miles from Burngullow to the end of the track at Parkandillack. It would have needed a number of new freight wagons (CDAs, PBAs etc.) but having said that, I'm not sure how they can populate the sidings at Burngullow without these wagons.
     
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  26. Northerner

    Northerner Well-Known Member

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    I hope, despite the Falmouth branch not being included, there's an AI 150 shuttling back and forth from the Truro bay onto the line every hour just to add that extra bit of traffic and interest.
     
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  27. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, hopefully the AI Falmouth services would appear. But the branch would really make the route better in terms of diversity etc.
     
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  28. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I can't see that this small extension will make much difference, personally.
     
  29. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    Ultimately it's just extending the existing main line services by one stop. I rather the route ended at Truro and the dev team moved onto the next project sooner if we aren't getting the Falmouth branch. Not really worth the effort in my view.
     
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  30. Iskra

    Iskra Active Member

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    Looking forwards to having an IC Swallow HST :D

    This era also allows the inclusion of classes 08, 37 and 47 so could we see more livery versions of those in game?

    I would have probably preferred a more colourful early privatisation era, but I like the late BR liveries and it's nice that a new era is being brought into the game- so I will be buying this. I also like the extension to St Austell too.

    Overall, this is looking a promising release!
     
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  31. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    I'm surprised at how pessimistic people are over the extension to St Austell. Surely a few extra miles can only be a good thing? I know Falmouth would probably have been a better choice, but it's still nice to have some extra miles to cover.
     
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  32. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    Extra miles for the sake of it is just as bad as not enough. There should be a reason for the extra length, not “just because”. A logical start and end point should be on every single route, St Austell isn’t a logical end point.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2021
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  33. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I am still looking forward to the route, although not nearly as much as when it was announced. I do think this is a little pointless, just my personal opinion but St. Austell just seems an odd place to start the route. Par would have made more sense or adding the Falmouth branch which seemed a popular suggestion on here.

    I do wonder if this is the future, where a route in TS1 which went the full length will now become a smaller stump. The TS1 version went from Plymouth to Penzance (and that as an extension from one starting at Paddington) and now we have this relatively short section.

    What else have we to look forward to, Newcastle to Edinburgh to be Berwick to Edinburgh, North Wales Coast to be Chester to Llandudno, Bristol to Exeter to be Bristol to Taunton etc. I was half expecting London to Brighton to be cut down, thankfully it isn't.

    For me personally having logical points at each end of the route helps with immersion and replaying the "story" which you are trying to simulate.
     
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  34. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I'm not really a fan of the routes being shorter. When I buy a new game I want everything to be bigger and better. If routes from TS are being used I'd expect them to be the same length, if not longer with new branches added. It doesn't really impact my enjoyment of the routes but I can't shake the feeling I'm getting less for the same price. I certainly feel like I'd play each route more if there was more diversity within them, branch lines and longer routes would go a long way to achieve that.
     
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  35. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    But Rivet didn't set out to build the Cornish Main Line as Just Trains did in TS1. Rivet set out to build a small route focussing on local services within West Cornwall. Whereas for Rush Hour, Dovetail set out to build the Brighton Main Line, which they are and is why we're getting the full thing.
     
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  36. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    Yes Cameron's Gaming which is why its confusing for them to plough on to St Austell :) Which is very much Mid Cornwall!
     
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  37. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Yes I accept that was the intention. However it shows the difference between the two simulators, it is unlikely a developer would have built a West Cornwall route for TS1, they would and indeed, did build the complete route. This is one of the reasons why I still use TS1 a lot more than TSW as even within one route if can offer so much more gameplay.

    I understand and completely accept that route building is a lot more of an arduous process in TSW and that it would take a lot longer to build a longer route, and there is not really much we can do about that.

    However, from a personal point of view, part of a route, especially starting from a not particularly substantial station, feels like the route is stunted and as I stated previously from a scenario/service point of view feels less immersive. NTP was frankly the same, a lovely route and one of my favourite TSW routes, but really if it was built in TS1 it possibly would have gone all the way to Liverpool or would had been York to Manchester, offering a bit more game play and a bit more sense and immersion to some of the scenarios/services, especially the Newcastle to Liverpool services. ECW, another lovely route, but why didn't they build it to Hastings which would make a lot more sense, for TVL, why not include the Bishop Auckland branch as that is where most of the Saltburn services originate from? This last two are relatively small extensions and would "complete" many of the services featured on the route. This is just my personal opinion, I suspect for many it isn't a concern where the route starts and finishes.

    Again, personally speaking, I would rather a network of shorter lines rather than part of a mainline.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2021
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  38. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    I agree, and have said it several times- Train Sim World. The DLC's don't create the world they inhabit...missing out the branch lines- defeats the whole purpose of the main line. But at least we get St Ives...dont forget the positives.

    Anyway....

    For the 1990's there is a whole world of Clay lines and shunting that can be done between Lostwithiel, to the east, Fowey to the south, Newquay (line) to the North and Burngullow to the west.

    With this line reaching St Austell, but "ignoring" them is like reaching a freight dystopia for those who love it, but just keeping it out of reach...

    BUT

    We have to focus on the positives- there are now a couple of tunnels on the route, some cracking viaducts over various valleys which they have to model.

    We get to go over Truro's two large viaducts with stunning views of the carparks, the Cathedral and the river in the background.

    With it in the 90's we do get the possibility of running the oil trucks to Long Rock, there is the potential for the fertiliser train into Truro sidings.

    It will be fun and stunning all the same.

    Lets be positive?
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2021
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  39. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Yes that is true, the St. Ives branch will be a nice experience, hopefully. There are many positives and I am looking forward to the class 150/2, I just can't get away from the fact that stopping a scenario (theoretically bound for London or Plymouth or Cardiff or Leeds) at St. Austell is fairly immersion breaking, for me at least.

    Having said all that above, the TS1 version doesn't have any of the branch lines at all which is a shame.
     
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  40. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    When DTG take something away from the promised route, people (rightly) complain.

    When Rivet add something to the promised route, people complain. :|

    Personally I would have preferred Falmouth but this was never promised and I am pleased that the original route has been extended. There could be any number of reasons that Falmouth wasn’t considered or a further extension to Par or further. Let’s just enjoy what we are getting.
     
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  41. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    Most existing main line routes have the problem of not starting or finishing at the natural point. This is a feature of shorter routes unfortunately.

    The freeware Railways of Devon and Cornwall for TS has all the branch lines (Looe and Gunnislake branches are particularly good). You do need quite a bit of DLC to get it to run though.
     
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  42. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    There will be a sensible reason not to do Falmouth- presumably to do with the internal despatcher dealing with another train going backwards and forwards in the system that isnt on the mainline.

    Theoretically every train on "our" section is a "stopping train"?

    Occasionally trains miss Hayle in "our" section of track. To the east they have a habit of missing Lostwithiel, Menheniot, St Germans, and Saltash on the quicker routes.

    Of course as mentioned previously...they wont stop at Camborne on Wednesdays...
     
  43. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, I have seen that route and it looks very good. I haven't got round to actually looking at the requirements yet. I will have most of the payware I am sure.
     
  44. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    That’s why they’ve given us an extra portion.
     
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  45. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with what you're saying, but I believe it's important to remember this isn't Train Simulator. I get the impression making routes in TSW is a much more detailed and time consuming process than it is in TS, along with the fact that DTG (and presumably Rivet) prefer making TSW routes no longer than an hour at most. Extending this route would have it knocking on two hours.

    Whether we like it or not, DTG and I'm guessing Rivet would rather make several short routes than one long one, or at least that's how I interpret it.
     
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  46. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    Why does every route HAVE to end at a major destination?? I would understand the discontent if for example a WCML South route ended somewhere like Bletchley or Leighton Buzzard, but this is a comparatively quiet route ending at a station the majority of the trains stop at. I feel like people on this forum are somehow more upset than when the route was just going to Truro. I wouldn't blame Rivet for wanting to backtrack on the extension after seeing people moan about the extra content.

    I don't think we've ever been promised more content after a route's initial announcement, it's usually the other way around, Can't we be happy about that?
     
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  47. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Chathill to Edinburgh... :cool:

    Or on a more mundane level it would be a bit like having the route from Marylebone to Aylesbury, finishing at Wendover. If Rivet decided for whatever reason to push further east, it should have been with the goal of getting to a logical point from a railway operational point. Yes St Austell is a major passenger station, in Cornish terms, but not in terms of train movement operations.
     
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  48. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    Would prefer the Cornish route to Liskeard with the extension to Looe and Truro to Falmouth. That would be some route then.
     
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  49. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    james64 you make a very good point- Why does it need to go to major terminus.

    It doesn't.

    But 5k up the line at Par/St Blazey is a network rail depot, and freight terminus port.

    I for one is happy with the extra content. Its great to be able to travel further in glorious Cornwall in the simulator.

    Penzance is the only "major" terminus in Cornwall, and it visits that.

    I am not cross or angry that is stops at St Austell, its just that its a "strange" place to stop the DLC at. Its neither here or there. BUT its the largest town in Cornwall today. It will be appearing on the news a lot in the coming years as the lithium mining race takes off.

    Plus during the G7 the queen got off the royal train there.
    D
     
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  50. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    That date rules out an MTU powered HST then, It would have to be remodelled as they use a different cab to what's in-game at present, plus more minor changes and sounds. If they do use it that would be a big turn off for me.
     
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