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Penzance To St. Austell And St. Ives.

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by nwp1, Apr 20, 2021.

  1. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    That's why I think it's more likely we'll get a Class 47 with Mk2 coaches, probably in intercity swallow livery.
     
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  2. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Is anyone buying this before arosa any iow are fixed?
     
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  3. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    That would mean them making a completely new set of carriages though.
     
  4. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed
     
  5. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Don't we have mk2s already on NTP?
     
  6. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah. I hadn't thought of that. The ones in NTP are the wrong variety aren't they?
     
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  7. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but the wrong type. By the 90s, the mk2s included in NTP were typically used on regional trains, like the transpennine route, although they were mostly replaced by 158s. The mk2s used on Intercity Cross Country trains behind Class 47s were higher spec ones fitted with air conditioning, notable for not having openable windows (bar at the doors).
    [​IMG]
    Img credit unknown

    This is the type included in NTP, which are distinguished by having 3 doors per side, and the doors were narrower than the other mk2 coaches:
    [​IMG]
    Image by Llamafish, Wikipedia
     
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  8. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Yes they would need to be of the air conditioned variety. It would be good to see them though.
     
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  9. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for that, I didn't realise there was much difference.
     
  10. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Rivet do make nice coaches.
     
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  11. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    Just a shame they cant make them work in Livery designer with scenario planner, *cough* class 483 iow... *cough*
     
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  12. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    I guess the question is would it be easier to make the appropriate Mark 2 coaches or redesign the HST cab and (hopefully) get AP to do some Valenta sounds.
     
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  13. Warspite

    Warspite Active Member

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    I think I said it some time ago but they surely cannot have a route set in Cornwall in the early 1990s without an HST. All the Paddington-Penzance trains in this period were HSTs. From my observations at the time, they were in Inter-City Executive ‘Swallow’ livery. Inter-regional services were in the hands of class 47/8s (most also in Inter-City livery) with mark 2d/e air conditioned stock. On summer Saturdays there were more inter-regional services than on weekdays but they cannot ignore the Paddington HSTs.
     
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  14. Alex_m30x#7297

    Alex_m30x#7297 Well-Known Member

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    Do you need to take a Covid test
    Symptoms include severe bouts of sarcasm
     
  15. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    No just trying to attract Jasper Rivet attention.. tick tock been 6 months now for 483s. I'm sure the hst in swallow Livery will be done fine by rivet... I hope...
     
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  16. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    I thought they fixed the 483 thing?
     
  17. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    They did
     
  18. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    I am just attaching a map of the clay lines from a china clay museum in Cornwall.

    Its why I am intrigued as to why Rivet are going to St Austell in the 90's and not involving any of the freight.

    Just out of reach for freight lovers!
     

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  19. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    Think looking at feedback Par should/could have been starting point. Only in planning mind, Rivet could surprise us again before xmas. (Making a bold assumption this is a 2022 release)
     
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  20. Warspite

    Warspite Active Member

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    I’ve been going on about the china clay trains since this thread started 819 posts ago! They were such an integral part of the Cornish railway scene (and still are to a lesser extent). In the 1990s, there was a dedicated fleet of class 37/5s operating the frequent runs from the various works to Carne Point, Fowey where the china clay was unloaded for onwards transportation by ships. There was also a daily Speedlink service to Tavistock Junction Yard in Plymouth (and onward to Bescot), normally headed by a pair of the class 37s and the daily slurry tanks (‘silver bullets’) from Burngullow to Irvine in Scotland, also double-headed by class 37s.

    When it was suggested that the route would possibly be extended, I had a (very) brief hope that it could be extended to at least Par so that St Blazey could be included. The only rationale behind the decision to only go as far as St Austell must be the difficulty of developing the specific freight rolling stock needed if the route was extended to Par (and logically to St Blazey). Can we hope though that there could be a future 'Par/St Blazey extension and freight' DLC?
     
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  21. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    I would like to think so Mr Warspite. Fingers crossed and praying to the rivet gods
     
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  22. Jpantera

    Jpantera Active Member

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    Has there been any extension to any route?

    On the subject of the China Clay in recent times

    Most Traffic from St Blazey heads East apart from Burngullow branch workings. In TS2021 CC for Export showcases the workings quite well based on the Goonbarrow/St Blazey/Lostwithiel/Carne Point axis. Would be nice to see such stuff but I worry that Tees Valley was the first and last of such UK routes with freight and passenger mixing. Penzance to St Austell is basically pure Passenger only with the odd mail service in the 1990s and the solitary fuel tank working.
     
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  23. Warspite

    Warspite Active Member

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    I agree that china clay workings west of St Austell are limited to the Burngullow (Blackpool Works) and Parkandillack/Treviscoe/Kernick works on the Parkandillack branch. However, this was quite intensive and in the early 1990s a lot of clay traffic still came through the junction at Burngullow. However, you are right, no route extensions on TSW2 so far (and probably not likely) but I was just putting a marker down!

    However, just to show my long-standing passion for china clay, this is the photo which makes up my ‘avatar’: 50014 Warspite coming down from Parkandillack into Burngullow junction with 49 clay hoods in June 1987 (the main line is in the foreground). And, yes, my wife did count them all and take the photo!
    50014 Warspite Parkandillick to Fowey Carne Point at Burngullow 03-06-1987.jpg
     
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  24. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    Warspite it just proves to me that DTG don't like branches. They want A-B routes.
     
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  25. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Which is why Rivet (who have full control over what the extents of the route are) are including the St Ives branch, DTG's most recent route, Cathcart Circle, includes 2 branches, Clinchfield includes multiple branches and there's a branch on Sand Patch...
     
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  26. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The "branch" on Sand Patch is just a spur, and only usable in one scenario.
     
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  27. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    The St Ives branch is the grand total of 14 minutes each way :)

    Its great to have it.

    But I can envisage most users doing the mainline?

    D
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2021
  28. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    I don't see much wrong with mainlines, so long as there is plenty of options.

    The WCML South (EUS - MK w/ Abbey Line) or ECML South KX/M'Gate - P'Borough), for example would be prime, Commuter services, InterCity, probably a good bit of freight.

    In my opinion it would have been better staying at Truro and having the Falmouth line
     
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  29. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    I think that is exactly why they extended it to St Austell. There literally was no point stopping in Truro if not doing the Falmouth branch.

    By going on to St Austell you take away those issues. We wont be all walking around an empty Truro station waiting for the next down train with an empty bay 1.
     
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  30. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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  31. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Well I am not going to complain about the extra mileage and I am pleased it will be set in the early 1990's and that they are including the single track section as per the prototype.

    I still personally would have far rather have seen the Falmouth branch included as it would have created that mini network and it is quite a pretty line with its tunnels and viaducts. I can't really see the extra few miles to St Austell adding a great deal to game play.

    However, I will look forward to it and will purchase it on release, unless something in announced in the meantime to make me change my mind.
     
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  32. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    I can see the release for next year first.
     
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  33. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    On Hamburg-Lübeck there is a branch to Rothenburgsort, where the freight trains start/end. Main-Spessart has the branch to the harbour where the 204 operates. Hauptstrecke Rhein-Ruhr has the branch of the S-bahn via Essen-Steele. I think we both have proved DTG indeed does branch lines.
     
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  34. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    ... which is totally fine if the route is well done.
     
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  35. Warspite

    Warspite Active Member

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    In the Rivet forum post you linked to, Jasper says "But we will have the (china clay?) factory near Treewon, which will allow a lot more gameplay for freight trains."

    I'm assuming he is referring to Trewoon, a village just west of St Austell but the 'factory' he mentions is the large Blackpool china clay works at Burngullow (not a 'factory') which we have been referring to in previous posts on here about china clay workings. Can we hope that "a lot more gameplay for freight trains" means prototypical freight wagons for china clay trains?
     
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  36. Warspite

    Warspite Active Member

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  37. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    Not sure if that means no HST, but I would assume it makes it less likely at least, the second loco might be something freight related with that hint, e.g. a 45 or 47.
     
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  38. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    The class 37 as on TVL would be the obvious choice as they were used down there on those trains. The class 45 had long disappeared from Cornwall, in fact the UK rail network by the time the route is set.
     
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  39. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Literally just saw two class 37s (one colas livery) pulling old yellow British rail coaches near me
     
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  40. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    This dlc is made by rivet games , not dtg
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2021
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  41. Quentin

    Quentin Active Member

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    Like this test train (Gravesend April 2017) 2017-04-06 13.39.08.jpg
     
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  42. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    Network Rail test train no doubt, they usually run at unfriendly hours of the day, but always worth a trip to see them if you know they're coming.

    Interestingly some of the carriages used for them actually originate from old multiple units.
     
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  43. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Dovetail Games Games?
     
  44. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    My bad :)
    I often make those kind of mistakes
     
  45. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    Would make the 37 livery designer compatible too which is great. However I note the 40 is coming to Livery designer this thursday. Hopefully jasper will be confirming shortly a HST intercity Livery for this route with a class 37 freight layer for those with tvl
     
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  46. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Could have even been the one. I didnt clock the numbers but there looked to be a BR blue 37 as head.
     
  47. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Should it be in a different sector though? Not sure metals is appropriate for china clay ;) although to be fair, it seems mismatches were frequent.
     
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  48. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Well yes but the basis is there as Laira had some 37/5's. Although, as you say often engines were borrowed by different sectors. It wasn't unknown to see Railfreight liveried loco's on passenger duties, it was quite common on the North Wales coast line.
     
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  49. Warspite

    Warspite Active Member

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    Although Laira's 37s were 37/5s, they did not have the same noses as the 37/5s in TVL. Those were in the series 37501 to 37521 and rebuilt from the split headcode 37s. The headcode boxes were removed on rebuilding leaving a plain front with the marker lights as in TVL. The Laira 37/5s were in the series 37667 to 37699 and rebuilt from centre headcode 37s. The headcode 'panel' was filled in with the marker lights incorporated. From 1991, Laira also had at least four 37/4s including two (37417 and 37420) in the original InterCity livery.

    Just to add to the livery complication, Laira's class 37 37671 Tre Pol and Pen mistakenly carried Railfreight Metals livery (instaed of Railfreight Distribution) after it was rebuilt and certainly carried that livery in 1989 and 1990 but I don't know for how long.
     
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  50. Warspite

    Warspite Active Member

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    Having said all that, by 1997 class 37 37521 which was one of the split headcode rebuilt 37s (as TVL) was at Laira in EWS livery and named English China Clays (see post #771). I'm not sure if any of the other of that series of 37/5s was ever allocated to Laira.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2021
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