Penzance To St. Austell And St. Ives.

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by nwp1, Apr 20, 2021.

  1. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Well-Known Member

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    Or even 153?!
     
  2. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Yes, although I hope not.

    Would the 153's have been used on the stopping services on the mainline though?
     
  3. Northerner

    Northerner Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, I had it in my head that sprinters have a mechanical transmission.
     
  4. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to go on a limb and say it'll most likely be 1990 - 96, unless DTG's managed to re get the FGW and the Wales & West/Wessex licenses.
     
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  5. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Well-Known Member

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    Yep! Well I had the misfortune of one, single 153 1644 Penzance-Exeter in July, it was ummm cosy!
     
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  6. ralphy_porter2000

    ralphy_porter2000 Active Member

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    It was listed as an era 5 route (1951-1990) which was incorrect - the route is actually era 6 (1991-2010) Oooch! :(
     
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  7. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    Man I hope so. GWE has always felt a bit wrong with all the trains being in GWR green. In reality only a small minority of HSTs were in that livery.
     
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  8. djcwey

    djcwey Well-Known Member

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    Even if it is a Class 150/2 it might be interesting to see if Rivet attempt the Wessex Trains or FGW local lines liveries?
     
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  9. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    OMG this is the BEST NEWS EVER!
     
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  10. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Correct. Going from my Wales and West experience there were no 150/1's in the West Country at that time. A small sub fleet of 150/2's was redeployed from Canton to Laira to replace heritage units initially in the Exeter area (around that time - can't remember exactly when). 1991 could still give us the 155's although more likely a 153.
    I hope if it is the HST it gets a Paxman engine sound set.
    Outside chance we could get some Mk3 sleepers and Mk2 aircons for the Night Riviera, but not holding my breath on that one.
    The era also pretty much writes off anything in the way of freight traffic, if at the latter end of the period the only freight west of Burngullow was engineering trains, the oil tanks to Long Rock had finished by then.
    Rivet have really harvested the low hanging fruit with this one, both in terms of the section modelled and the era.
     
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  11. Iskra

    Iskra Active Member

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    Excellent- hopefully HST, 150 and class 57!
     
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  12. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    Completely agree, Plymouth to Truro anytime from 1960 to 1988 would have been a fantastic mix of options as an example of an alternative Cornish route.
     
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  13. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Sprinters, for one.
     
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  14. I was very dissapointed when I heard they weren't going to make use of the HST in the route, but I'm very happy now! Can't wait for a sprinter as well.
     
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  15. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    When did they say they'd not make a HST for it?
     
  16. Warspite

    Warspite Well-Known Member

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    Have to say I am just a bit disappointed. Whilst it’s good to have a Cornwall route in any time period, my hopes had been raised by what we now know was the wrong era.

    It’s clear many are happy with the more 'modern' era but I saw a great opportunity to have the blue ‘Western’ from the Legends pack together with class 47s, 45s and even an unrefurbished class 50. Oh well, perhaps a chance for another ‘Legends’ pack and 1970s timetable with the class 50 top of the list!
     
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  17. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    If it's set in the early 90s then could there still be a chance of getting the 50s? I'm not sure if they ran down there that late.
     
  18. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I think by 1991 they were mainly on the Waterloo to Exeter route and maybe some departmental workings. They probably did work down there but I think they would have been a rare sight west of Plymouth by 1991.
     
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  19. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    Nice period "accident".

    Admin error or reading the boards, what ever. It will be a hell of a lot easier to model that period than try and do anything earlier.

    Freight wise- rare as hens teeth. We might get the mail train and the oil to long rock still.

    Loco's its going to be a 43 and a sprinter of some sort? There was nothing else down here!?

    Will they give us the sleeper? GWE could borrow it :)

    D
     
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  20. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Correct. By then they were in the NWRA (NSE Western), NSSA (Waterloo to Exeter) and DCWA (Civil Engineers) pools, so no booked work west of Plymouth. In fact, most of the stock workings off the Waterloos ran direct from Laira to Exeter and vv. Any “Inter City” loco hauled traffic in Cornwall was 47’s, principally the long range 47/8’s.
     
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  21. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I do think this is a cop out era, especially if it is towards the end of the set period which I suspect it will be so around 2010. Okay it might be more popular with many as it is more "modern". But the stock isn't nearly as varied and they can pretty much negate doing any freight at all.

    At least in 1991 there were still parcels trains and more likely hood of some freight plus more varied opportunities for passengers with heritage units still being much in evidence and class 47's on cross country services.

    This is why I personally cannot understand the clamour for the modern period all the times, operations on most routes are far less interesting.

    The more I think about it, I feel it is disappointing that the route only runs from Truro. I realise going to Plymouth would make it one of the longest routes in TSW but it would feel like a decent run especially for a express from Paddington. You could imagine taking over such a train at Plymouth but not at Truro! Having the Falmouth branch included would make it a nice little network, at least.
     
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  22. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    My reasons are mainly nostalgia and familiarity. I was born in 2000, so 2010 is exactly the sort of period I'll be nostalgic for. I know it'll likely be different for you.

    I only need Sprinters and HSTs to be happy with a route, as it's what I'm familiar with and have fond memories of. I don't have as much attachment to the trains of the 70s and 80s because they were mostly gone by the time I was born.

    Again this is a personal preference, but I honestly don't much care for freight, modern or not. I appreciate it if it's there, but I barely touch it.
     
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  23. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    With it being set 1990 etc, if I see another Class 101 recycled I may just have to take a shotgun to my computer
     
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  24. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    I find it unlikely the 101 will be reused - there's nothing in the code that suggests that.
     
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  25. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    That’s something reassuring at least.
     
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  26. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    The only thing down here will be 150's and 43's (pretty much as it is now :) )

    Yes if DTG and Rivet have one eye on the boards, going to Falmouth would make a lot of sense...seeing as they have got Truro in there. A nice 11 mile single track run! 1 hour game play of a there and back :)
     
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  27. Warspite

    Warspite Well-Known Member

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    By 1991, 25 class 50s had gone (half the fleet) and by 1992, only eight were left. I remember the DCWA 50s working engineers' trains from Meldon Quarry but they were very much on the way out by then. However, they were never the same for me after Warspite (50014) went at the end of 1987.
     
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  28. Warspite

    Warspite Well-Known Member

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    I have to agree. Starting at Truro makes no sense operationally and all the interesting workings were east of St Austell even in the 1990s. If length of route is a factor, the only justification for doing the Truro-Penzance section is the branch to St Ives which, whilst scenically 'nice', is extremely limited operationally.
     
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  29. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    "Nicking" a DCWA at Exeter was the standard move to replace an inbound 50 off a Down Waterloo with knackered brake blocks, due in no small part to the enthusiasm of drivers on the Salisbury line for using the straight air brake! Of course in theory they were limited to 60 MPH but as this was still before the days of Q-Tron and OTMR (black boxes to the uninitiated) I suspect a little licence was taken.
    Anyhow that digresses a little from the OT but illustrates that a Cornish route set in '91 would not see much if any Class 50 haulage.
     
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  30. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    As I said earlier, Rivet offering to pluck the low hanging fruit...
     
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  31. atpyatt

    atpyatt Well-Known Member

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    It's disappointing that this is going to be another modern route, the last UK route was modern and now the next 3 are going to be! They're going to have to do a really good job on the scenery otherwise I think I'm going to be very underwhelmed, not seeing many selling points here.
     
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  32. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    I really do think that the decision was b
    The "selling point" might actually be the St Ives line. You need to keep a prompt to time, to keep to schedule, it doesnt hang around at either station?
     
  33. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Define "modern"...
    From what I know in this period you have
    class 43 - 1975 (45 years)
    class 150 - 1984 (37 years)
    class 153 - 1991 (30 years)
    class 143 - 1985 (36 years)
    class 66 - 1998 (23 years)

    maybe a 158 - 1990 (31 years)

    I realise they're still running now bar the pacers but "modern" and "West Country trains" are hardly synonymous except for the 800s
     
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  34. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I forgot we might end up with a class 66 too (groan)! Although if there is little or no freight we might be spared it!
     
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  35. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand how you think this route will be modern. Yes if they put it in 2010 it's pretty modern but I can't see that happening due to licensing issues with defunct TOC's such as 'First Great Western'. Much more likely is that it's set in the early 90's, before privatisation. Heck, I wasn't even born in the early 90's. Hardly 'modern' is it?

    There won't be any 66's if the route is set in the 90's which I think is highly likely (see above) but what do you have against them? They're iconic.
     
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  36. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Apparently a lot of enthusiasts dislike them because they replaced the 'classic' BR locos dating from the modernisation plan. The 66s, however, almost certainly saved EWS and rail freight as a whole in the UK - that's why there's so many of them. They offered reliability these 40 year old locos simply couldn't. Also, the 40 year old locos would have to be gradually withdrawn anyway so they can be cannibalised for spares - it'd be like a cat trying to eat its own tail, or putting 'my computer' into the 'recycling bin'.

    I'm sure it'll be the same sort of thing where in the 70s, enthusiasts apparently turned their backs on HSTs because they replaced deltics and 50s, yet fast forward 40 years and their mouth starts foaming whenever they're within a mile of one.
     
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  37. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Iconic, yet ubiquitous... Some people get sick to the sight of the same thing time and again
    You know, the people that want the 37s and 50s to go on forever because they're "real trains"...
     
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  38. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    It will probably all depend on what was running when you were five to ten years old, what you determine as a real train?

    I went on the SVR last year and the guard said something interesting. There is more people for a diesel event, than steam. Because those who remember steam in their youth are dying off, leaving only the diesel fans...
     
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  39. atpyatt

    atpyatt Well-Known Member

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    Ok, that's a fair point, if it's set in the early 90s I will take the "modern" back, it is a long time ago now! If it's set in the 90s the HSTs would have Valentas in them as well, so that would be a selling point :)
     
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  40. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Fair point, obviously 1991 isn't modern. Maybe 2010 isn't modern but I just feel if it is set then, which it may well not be then it reduces the operational interest significantly. To be honest 1991 is a year I like modelling in TS1 so I won't complain if it's from then.

    Class 66's, to be honest I just can't stand them. I think they are ugly and they are everywhere. Obviously EWS couldn't continue to run the loco's they had, I just wish they had chosen something a bit more easy on the eye. Just my opinion.

    It also slightly irks me, that apart from 30 Romanian built class 56's, every loco EWS inherited from BR were British built. Yet now the nation which pretty much invented the railway has to purchase many of it's trains from overseas.
     
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  41. atpyatt

    atpyatt Well-Known Member

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    Anything from the Spice Girls onwards, so that's 1994 lol.
     
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  42. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    British built, with terrible reliability, fuel consumption and availability
    It's not "broken down train sim world" :)
    I guess having a few scenarios where you have to rescue the latest class 60 to break down would be interesting enough

    Jokes aside, the same was probably said about classes 25, 26 & 27, being "common as rats" hence their nicknames "The rat" and "MacRat"
     
  43. railway12

    railway12 Well-Known Member

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    For me this route is neither modern nor old. Modernish would be best fitting for that era. Anyway for those interested in the route, tomorrow I'll be making a post on what to expect of West cornwall including possible rolling stock, pictures etc.
     
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  44. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Much of the EWS fleet would have been 30 years old, some more when they inherited them, even the newer designs like the class 56 were up to 20 years old. They of course by then would have been suffering reliability issues and not be as efficient.

    I wasn't arguing they should have kept them going ad-infinitum, just that their replacement, in my opinion, is an unattractive, style-less box on wheels. Obviously replacing different classes with one class of loco is both sensible and efficient, I just bemoan the fact we can't/don't build locomotives anymore.

    Well the Sulzer type 2's were common although there were many variants. However you could also see class 31's around too for some type 2 variety. Plus class 22's and 21's/29's if you go back to the 60's.

    Todays railway may be more efficient, which has to be the over riding consideration but for the enthusiast it does not hold the variety the railways used to have. That isn't to say I don't enjoy driving modern trains in train simulator, I do, but I wouldn't go out for the day looking at trains, something which even twenty years ago was more interesting.
     
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  45. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I was going to say "That's not that many", but it seems that there's over SEVENTY classes built between 1994 and 2021...

    (21,57,59,66,67,68,70,88,92,168,170,171,172,175,180,185,195,196,197,230,220,221,222,800,802,325,323,331,332,333,334,345,350,357,360,365,375,376,377,378,379,380,385,387,700,701,707,710,717,720,730,745,755,777,390,395,397,801)
     
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  46. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I'd love to see a route where I can take the 66 for an drive that's actually interesting. I don't own SEHS so no clue what the 66 services look like in that DLC, but I'm quite dissapointed in what GWE and EWS have to offer for the 66. (GWE being a boring straight full-throttle run, and ECW only being able to drive the 66 for a few miles).

    Wouldn't mind seeing a route where the 66 can be used for a majority of the route, making some bends, crossing some hills, so I actually have to throttle up and down, do some braking, acknowledge some AWS alerts, and throttle up again. Especially if that 66 is a recycled one and thus wouldn't use up much development time so whatever route it comes with can also be given another train that's actually new.
     
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  47. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    See, I agree for the most part, but for me trains which WORK are more important than a variety of trains which don't actually serve their purpose. Again, growing up in Cardiff we saw a lot of failed rubbish being dragged along the lines and I much prefer a decently long steel train with a 66 at full chat than I would some wagons hauled by 2 smaller engines.
    I guess it's fine for the number collectors...
     
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  48. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Something like the Settle (Skipton) to Carlisle would do, even I would drive the class 66 on it, although that is far too long a route for current standards. There is really very little opportunity for modern UK freight operations so far. If this route started from Plymouth you would get a bit and some nice curves and hills.

    The South Wales mainline would offer quite a few freight opportunities for the class 66.

    I am tempted to use it in off the rail mode on the IOW and drive it off the pier!
     
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  49. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I don't disagree with that sentiment, the railway is a public asset not a working museum, I totally agree.
     
  50. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Luckily we do have SOME older assets on the network, so the spotters can still do their thing. Personally I spent a lovely afternoon just outside Felixstowe watching the new passenger boxes going back and forth and a few 66s hauling containers out of the port. Froze various parts off, but very enjoyable
     
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