Petition For Dtg To Finally Stop Playing It Safe And Start Looking Abroad For New Content.

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by cyrill.kroonstuiver, Sep 13, 2021.

?
  1. Yes

    54 vote(s)
    65.9%
  2. No, the current course of action is fine.

    13 vote(s)
    15.9%
  3. No, DTG should first finish recreating the entire US, UK and German rail network first.

    15 vote(s)
    18.3%
  1. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    225
    Likes Received:
    290
    Introduction

    Hey everyone!

    So I'll save you all the beating around the bush here, it is my opinion that DTG should stop playing it safe and should seriously consider starting to look more abroad when it comes to new routes.
    Personally speaking I'm a bit at my limit for how many more US, UK or German routes I can handle before I feel like I've seen it all, even if those major countries still have a lot to offer.
    That's not to say that I don't want DTG to make those routes anymore, there's still plenty things I'm definitely interested in seeing from US/UK/GE, but for now the focus should be put elsewhere.
    In this thread I'll mostly be using my own country of choice I'd like to see most, the Netherlands, as example, but I've seen many suggestions for many different countries for which I think this is true as well.

    Let's start with saying that I understand the argument Matt has made previously explaining that the problem with adding new countries is that the team doesn't have any expertise when it comes to new countries.
    Along with the extra time spent researching a new country's route's safety systems and creating assets for them.
    I get that it's more work, time and effort to add a new country than to create for example another "Hauptstrecke <insert region>", and I can't guarantee that it'll be worth it every time, but that's always the case. In fact, that's the case right now, as the omission of NEC in preserved collection is kind of a silent admission of such a swing and a miss.


    The playerbase

    Of course sales is also a big concern for DTG, as is understandable, they're still a company that has to make money to survive of course, and if they're not confident a route will sell, why make it in the first place?
    Before DTG can confidently start making a route they should first be confident there's an actual demand for it in the community, and for that, they're gonna have to watch the forums and see what's trending every now and then.

    My argument is that there's a lot hidden potential DTG is not seeing right now.
    In my own experience with the Dutch community, the thing is that a lot of them haven't yet moved on from TS20xx, as at least there, Dutch mods exist that may not be as good as officially produced routes, but at least they exist.
    The biggest indicator for demand I wonder if DTG is actually aware of is the amount of content made by hobbyists which proves there's huge demand for Dutch (and probably other countries too) routes that's simply not met currently, from people DTG isn't hearing from cause they're not involving themselves in TSW cause they're not represented here.

    Drawing out those playerbases will be almost guaranteed to make them more active here too, as well as draw a more varied audience cause right the the situation is very simple. One part of the potential playerbase is getting saturated with content, getting overserved, while the rest of the world outside the big 3 is starved for content and acknowledgement.


    TS20xx

    Similarly to my last argument, although I understand that it's still a good game, and it shouldn't be dropped entirely and updates should still happen, I think it's time for DTG to call it quits on TS20xx and try to get those playerbases over to TSW2, as it's simply the better game, if only it got the full attention. TSW2 is the future of train sim, no TS20xx, so DTG should entice those playerbases to come over, and not just the UK/US/GE playerbases of TS20xx.


    3rd party dev studios

    One of the things DTG could do to change course in this is more actively seek out 3rd party devs to work with.
    In the case of Dutch content there's a very popular, very competent, mod content creator called ChrisTrains who has in the past done excellent work on Dutch (and some German) modded content for TS20xx and MSTS who has from my knowledge expressed interest in working with DTG on Dutch content. I think DTG shouldn't wait for those devs to establish contact with DTG but should try to actively seek them out to cooperate with them to widen their audience and playerbase.

    Additionally I'd like to point out again that if you simply look at ChrisTrains' popularity, there can be no argument that there's no real demand for Dutch content, let alone other countries.
    Also, I'm using ChrisTrains and the Netherlands as an example here again cause from my understand the Netherlands is one of the more if not most actively requested countries on here other than Japan, other than it being my favorite.


    Risk

    The problem with DTG's current course of action is simply that it's becoming stale and people are getting more negative about the lack of diversity. Of course the hardcore US, UK and German rail fans are happy with getting served, but that still leaves out a lot of different potential.
    As I've alluded to in my introduction, even though the Big 3 countries still have a lot to offer, there's only so much of them I can handle before I feel like I've seen it all.
    DTG is risking of further alienating audiences and fans of countries not yet represented which could outweigh the risk of those new routes not selling well.


    What I envision DTG does in the future

    what I would like to see is a push from this point on to include new countries. Just like DTG has pushed HSL routes for a while now, that doesn't mean that DTG exclusively makes new countries' routes from this point on, but it should be a priority from now for at least a little while before really returning to the old US/UK/GE content.

    In the last 2 years DTG has released 6 routes per year including Brighton Mainline, excluding routes made by 3rd party studios.
    My preferred course of that for the next 2 years or so, the US/UK/GE only get 1 route each in that year which could include from 3rd party studios, leaving at least 3 or more routes for new countries in that year, about 6 new countries in those 2 years. Or at least more than 3 cause I could see some, especially Japan, to get at least 2 routes over those 2 year than.

    As to which countries those are, I have my favorites, but really, as long as it's something new.
    And no, sorry DTG, I don't think Canada or Scotland although not US and England aren't different enough to really count as something new here. Canada may be a different country, but it still feels in terms of trains like slightly colder USA, especially cause they basically share the same kinds of locomotives anyway. No offense to meant to Canada here.


    Conclusion

    My conclusion is basically like the premise. I think DTG should start looking abroad more for new routes and should at least for the next 2 years or so focus on at least half of the released routes being from previously untouched countries.
    DTG should look to diversify their audience with this, and look more outside of the forums to where potential audiences lie that could be moved over, such as lingering audiences from TS20xx.
    That does not mean more content from USA, UK or Germany isn't welcome anymore, just that they aren't the almost sole focus anymore.


    Afterword

    I hope this sparks some great discussion, and I'd invite DTG to weigh in on this anytime :)
    I'm just an impassioned TSW2 fan who's disappointed to see so much potential left untouched and want to help TSW2 and DTG to reach their full potential and be the best they could be.
    Please share your thoughts, and if you agree, please share, vote, get the message out there!

    It may be quite a read to go through, but thanks for listening!
     
    • Like Like x 11
  2. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    1,312
    Likes Received:
    2,133
    I'll not say DTG should completely stop making UK/DE/US content, but it'd be nice if more countries would be added to the mix. I'm getting quite tired of the same old content over and over again, and all the routes are quickly looking very much alike. At least the UK and US content has a bit of variety in era or passenger/freight, but all the German content are modern electrified passenger routes...

    But well, as long as it sells, I guess we can expect a commercial company to follow the money.

    At least Rivet challenged themselves and created an awesome Swiss narrouw gauge route through the mountainous Alps. It's not a product without flaws, but at least they didn't play the easy and safe way DTG has been doing for years.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  3. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    225
    Likes Received:
    290
    Exactly. And as I said, UK/DE/US content is still entirely welcome from time to time, just as long as it's not the sole focus.
    And I agree, Arosa definitely has its flaws *cough* terrain detail *cough* but it's still pretty popular even if just for the fact that it's actually something else and they did innovate with some stuff.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
  4. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,399
    Likes Received:
    3,508
    My issue is not even neccesarily the countries, but also the type of content from them. I of course also would love to see the Netherlands (and Austria, Belgium, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Sweden, Norway & Italy be introduced, and more of Switzerland and France being represented in game). But there's more issues.

    At the moment all German routes for example are modern day, electrified, main lines (except for RSN, as that technically is a branch, but it does not differ in much more than max speeds from other German routes). No non-electrified lines or single track branches. And no content from before 2010 either. There are huge groups of German railfans that aren't playing TSW, because the times they love most are the '90s with a very diverse roster of rolling stock resulting from the DB/DR merger and multiple changes in rolling stock paint schemes that were never fully accomplished, or the '70s and '80s, with everything painted in the pleasing Oceanblue/Beige (except for the famous BR 103 hauled IC's), or the '50s and '60s, where steam operated next to (then) modern day einheitsloks and diesel locomotives. These people might currently exercise their passion for trains with model railroading (which would mean they also have money to spend on this hobby ;)) or by talking about these eras of railways on forums while sharing self made videos and photos, and I certainly know a lot of these groups, but they might also be interested in exercing this passion via simulators that put them in the seat of the trains they like in the eras that interest them.

    Currently DTG has nothing to offer to these railfans in TSW (TS 20xx does have some content, but it is not very accesible due to dependencies sometimes), and because of that they're not playing the game, and because of that their demand doesn't show up in DTG's surveys. This leads to these groups being largely invisible to DTG (as are Dutch players, like you mentioned in your main post), because they aren't playing TSW. It's a tricky situation to solve, because DTG has to guess (market research will give more insurance, but no guarantee) how large certain demands are among potential players not yet playing TSW, and how likely it is that these potential players will play TSW once a route they're interested in is added.

    DTG at this point seems more focussed on maintaining a playerbase than on growing the playerbase, which will lead to endless repeats of the same content. I am willing to bet that in the next developement cycle, a modern electrified German route (or two) will be included (with Dostos probably....), and a modern day London based commuter route (part of the ECML or WCML if we're lucky), and perhaps even a historical UK route, and the already announced US freight routes were also predictable.

    I really, really hope that DTG, or more 3rd party devs, will start developing new and interesing content, from new countries, or different eras (like my '90s German proposals ;)), and even with different propulsion methods (a German diesel route, a UK route that has overhead electrification over it's whole length) or gameplay from countries we already know. In the end I think that will even help keep players playing in the long run, becuase I'm not sure I'll be willing to buy more of the same content if I've already got 7 routes like it.

    I also hope that players looking around in the suggestion forums will try to diversify their interests, and try to imagine what would make new content that doesn't interest you from the title alone could be interesting to you aswell. I like to do this sometimes, and I find it quite refreshing. For example, I initially wasn't interested in Japanese or Australian content, or even in European content that wasnt German, British or Dutch, but just by looking at the great suggestions some people have made, I have gained an interest in these routes aswell. So don't restrict yourself to just looking at suggestions you're already familiar with because it's like the content you already know, diversify your interests, you'll enjoy it! :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2021
    • Like Like x 5
  5. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    1,312
    Likes Received:
    2,133
    And the lack of a route editor means the community can't develop anything either, so we're entirely relying on DTG and 3rd parties to step outside of their comfort zone and create something different...
     
    • Like Like x 5
  6. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,399
    Likes Received:
    3,508
    Yes, in that regard an editor would be sooooo great, maybe one day, but I fear it's unlikely to ever come.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Commiee

    Commiee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2021
    Messages:
    245
    Likes Received:
    253
    My sentiment is exactly the same and has been since my very first post on the forums. Even though I got DLCs for six routes and one EMU for TSW2, it got stale and repetitive very soon. I feel like the repeating sequence of UK/US/Germany content in every cycle is only good enough for people whose only interest lies in seeing routes in their cities/towns/regions replicated. And I don't feel like that's the most ambitious/diverse roadmap for a sim that wants to be recognised as the most prominent one in the genre.

    On the other hand, I can see the objective limitations of expanding to other countries at the moment, with pandemic restrictions, so I haven't been too vocal on my feeling anxious about whether we will ever see routes from countries like Japan represented. I guess it was a case of unfortunate timing for someone like myself to get into TSW2 when all the restrictions have made it virtually impossible for the dev team to know if they can go for locations like Japan anytime in the next year or so.

    Once the circumstances allow for it, I hope DtG does take polls like this one https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/what-new-country-you-want-to-see-next-in-tsw2.35453/ into consideration for deciding on the next content.

    P.S. Pretty ridiculous to see the third poll option get so many votes. It's basically a vote of "keep TSW2 as a narrow-scope sim satisfying rail enthusiasts from three countries". By the time we'd get the entire rail network of UK/US/Germany represented we would probably be due for pension age and the sim would be as obsolete as TS Classic is now.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2021
    • Like Like x 4
  8. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    1,312
    Likes Received:
    2,133
    Agreed, at least UK content has some variety, with heritage lines such as West Somerset, and historic routes like Northern Trans-Pennine and Tees Valley. German content is really all the same. The only good thing about that is a lot of substitution possibilities.

    I doubt you can blame the pandemic for this. Sure, restrictions may provide a few challenges, but a lot of information can be found online. DTG has always stuck to the 'big 3' for Train Simulator as well. They could've used some information & research from anything they've created for Train Simulator, like a few of their Austrian routes. Not that Austria is a whole lot different from Germany, but at least it'd be something.

    Rivet did Arosa while the whole world was in panic about the pandemic. I don't see why DTG couldn't overcome pandemic restrictions.
     
  9. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    225
    Likes Received:
    290
    Yeah, I think it's very important DTG reassesses their current way of dealing with 3rd party studios.
    Instead of waiting for them to contact DTG, DTG should really reach out to them instead to collaborate as much as possible.
    With the example I already gave in the post, with highly specialized creators such as ChrisTrains this to a large degree already omits DTG's own lack of experience and knowledge with a new system, which ChrisTrains has plenty of, similar to Japan and Union Workshop.
    This would mean more hands on deck, so that those new countries are added faster, meaning better, and faster new content.
    Also, this would even be great for the people that aren't interested in these new countries as them getting pumped out faster means DTG will have more time for that US/DE/UK route others still want. As well as, it translates new knowledge in routebuilding over to DTG which they could use as well, making for even better routes across the board.

    Also, mentioning ChrisTrains, didn't he himself reach out to DTG a while ago to offer his help with possible Dutch content?
    From my understanding, he couldn't get a hold of someone at DTG to reply to him so he gave up, but that does show that DTG's outreach to possible helpful very talented and skilled 3rd party studios is severely lacking at best.

    I believe Matt and/or Sam spoke about that a while ago where they did, if my memory serves me right, did indeed say that currently the chances of a freely available editor happening are next to 0, as it's a conscious choice not to include it so they won't be in trouble for us creating licensed stuff ourselves. More so, DTG contacting a license holder and them finding out their name is already in the game through mod makers using the editor and distributing it could raise an eyebrow with the license holders and prevent DTG from getting a hold of some of those good licenses.
    Though as a counter argument I would say that, unless DTG is actually going to make other content, doesn't matter much if they can't get a hold of for example NS, or JR licenses if they're not gonna use them anyway.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2021
    • Like Like x 3
  10. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    225
    Likes Received:
    290
    Yeah, and I don't remember for what route it was, but there was one I remember they mentioned they made almost the entire route simply from Google Maps and youtube videos, so obviously it's not always as crucial.
    Although for a country you're not yet familiar with I could see the benefits, especially for the details on the trains themselves. Though than again, nothing the manufacturer can't provide blueprints for.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    225
    Likes Received:
    290
    Question, I know you yourself mostly deal with Japanese suggestions, which I'm a huge fan of, let me say that first :).
    Though I'm not sure if you can answer this, but, given the low English proficiency in Japan, are there a lot of Japanese language train forums? I believe so actually, especially given the popularity of games like Densha de Go in Japan.
    Similar to Dutch train fans, they mostly hang out on their own forums, often Dutch spoken forums, so this does indeed exacerbate the problem of underreporting of interest from the communities that could potentially be swayed to go over to Train Sim World, if content for them is made available.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  12. Commiee

    Commiee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2021
    Messages:
    245
    Likes Received:
    253
    I have no definite answer unfortunately, but given the prominence of rail fandom in Japan, I'm pretty sure the answer is yes. Maybe other enthusiasts of Japanese rail on this forum have had more of an experience with those and can answer.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    225
    Likes Received:
    290
    I see.
    From what I've seen previously I feel like it's safe to assume that that is indeed the case.
    They're never gonna do this, but I feel like if DTG somehow "infiltrated" some native language foreign forums and brought up how great a Train Sim World 2 route in their area would be, it could really open their eyes to the true potential, cause as I said, there's a serious issue of this forum vastly overrepresenting English speaking countries.

    Similarly, in Japan generally the biggest soccer game is PES, while almost everyone else chooses FIFA, but this is simply because FIFA only recently got the licenses for the Japanese league and teams, and even still, only PES has Japan's national men's team represented.
    FIFA to most players just is a little bit better than PES (though not in everything), but why do Japanese people stick with PES? Simply, because PES bothered to represent them.
    Exactly the same thing could happen with TSW2. Biggest markets are US/DE/UK? That's because they're virtually the only ones getting real representation. If Japan had as many routes as Germany does (+adequate language support for Japanese both in-game and in support), you can bet you you TSW2 would become HUGE in the Japanese railfan communities.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  14. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2021
    Messages:
    2,715
    Likes Received:
    1,618
    Absolutely needed and they can start doing this with the Netherlands starting with Amsterdam Utrecht Arnhem. Phase 2 is the International connection to Hauptstrecke Rhein-Ruhr the Hollandstrecke Duisburg Oberhausen-Arnhem.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2021
    Messages:
    281
    Likes Received:
    657
    DTG have to strike a fine balance. While I strongly agree that the three main countries should continue to be made, I'm open for new countries, but only on the basis that it's not just a one-off.

    During the selection of a route, I would hope it's been selected as part of creating a wider route network. To me, this is most important, as over time with more routes connected, you'll have more layers for rolling stock and feel that you driving further on the same integrated network.

    To sum up, if a new country is chosen, then I would want more routes and trains for that same country over time to make it feel more realistic and authentic. Plus, keeping to one new nation would help both DTG and new players adjust to signalling and any other rules unique to that country.

    I would not agree to have a style of one route from one country, then move on for good. The LGV route is a good example as Marseille is always practically empty, thus highly unrealistic without any other local train traffic.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  16. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    225
    Likes Received:
    290
    I get what you're saying, and I feel like I agree with about half of it.
    I do think it's indeed important they don't limit themselves to just little one-offs, like so far LGV Mediterrannee has been unfortunately. And so I wouldn't mind them focusing on that new country again in the release straight after either, effectively introducing a new country with 2 routes. But neither do I think DTG should just add 1 new country and call it a day. There are too many countries that have valid arguments of why they should be next on the list, and I feel like simply adding, say, Japan, and calling it a day would turn the usual cycle of US/DE/UK, into US/DE/UK/JP, which would be better because it has Japan in it, but it's still the same problem all over again if they then never do anything new again from there on out.

    In my personal opinion they really should be adding multiple countries. The goal I'd set for them would indeed be 3 new countries by the end of 2022. Especially by summer 2023, but no later. New countries, so not including expanding on France and Switserland, and as I said, as much as I would like more content there too, Canada and Scotland don't cut it for me if we're talking about countries outside of US/DE/UK as they're simply too similar, and Scotland is still part of UK anyway for now.
    That being said thoughhough France, Switserland, Canada and Scotland all still deserve some love the coming years too I think, but I just don't count them for the goal of new countries.

    To be fair though, given the nature of American railways, every American route is completely "new" in that regard, with its own signalling and its own rolling stock and having to learn the new signalling every different route. And because of the rolling stock and operators there's virtually no real layering there anyway. That doesn't deter DTG either.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    225
    Likes Received:
    290
    I requoted your message here if you don't mind. A more appropriate thread for this conversation :)

    I do indeed agree, which is why I, in my main post here, said that one of the important changes of course from DTG should be to actively seek out and collaborate with 3rd Party Studio's.
    In the example of the Netherlands as repeatedly used in my post, ChrisTrains is such a highly competent 3rd party developer that has the required knowledge, understanding and contacts to be able to get whatever he needs for info about Dutch railways and doesn't mind making assets either. If, for a hypothetical Dutch route DTG also worked with CoHa, the group that made Dutch signalling and assets for TS20xx community to use, DTG would already have most of the asset making covered for, basically only needing to help make it up to TSW2 standard. Almost exactly as you laid out by DTG only having to do the placement part of the route.
     
  18. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    1,312
    Likes Received:
    2,133
    Well, there should be plenty of freight trains and international trains running cross-boundry, which should provide opportunities for layering.

    I agree a few routes of the same country would be nice, especially if the routes have a different feel to them. But depending on the country, it may become repetitive and boring pretty quickly.

    The LGV is a one-trick pony, which is the main reason I didn't buy it. But at least there's the TGV which may be layered in in future French routes.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    1,312
    Likes Received:
    2,133
    I agree, the cycle shouldn't repeat itself too often. I'd prefer a cycle like
    - do a route of the 'big 3'
    - do a route of another country already made (such as France or Canada)
    - do a route in a new country

    I'd love to see another French route, as long as it isn't another dedicated high speed line without any other traffic. Considering the French landscape, rolling stock and signalling is quite drifferent from the usual stuff, I'd be counting it as a 'new' country.

    Canada however feels to similar to the US, and Scotland is too similar to the UK. Both don't really offer much new. Although there may be exceptions like the West Highland Line, which certainly has a different feel to it than the usual commuter routes, despite being located in the same country.

    I'm not counting Switzerland. DTG never did Switzerland. The fact we can celebrate having a Swiss route is completely thanks to Rivet, and I thank them for that.

    There isn't a whole lot of variety in DTGs US routes either. Sure there was LIRR (which is a one-trick pony much like East Coastway or Rapid Transit), but Boston-Providence feels much like NEC New York from TSW1. And although Clinchfield is set in a different time period, from what I've seen, the landscape is just as hilly and filled with forests and feels pretty similar to Sand Patch Grade. Cane Creek really offers a different landscape, but again, that's not thanks to DTG, but thanks to third parties.

    Looking at the content I own for Train Simulator, the most unique routes are created by third parties. DTG really only makes the same old stuff over and over again. And apparently it still sells well.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    1,312
    Likes Received:
    2,133
    I fear there'll never be a Dutch route, simply because us Dutchies keep on buying UK/DE/US routes. I have a feeling many people from UK/DE/US are much more interested in their own country (and only their country), much more compared to other people anyways. Could be wrong, but it'd explain why DTG sticks with the same old 'big 3'.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  21. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    225
    Likes Received:
    290
    Perhaps I am indeed a bit hard on France and Switzerland there. I wouldn't really count it as new, as in, if they add one of the 2 as well as a fully new one I'd be fine with it, but doing both of them to fill 2 out of 3 for the "new country" goal I wouldn't accept cause whether they're a one-trick pony or made by a 3rd party, at least they already existed in the game, so I guess you could say I count them as 0.5 new route instead :)

    This is a pretty decent formula for releases I feel yeah.
    Though for clarification, do you mean in a cycle every country of the Big 3? Or just A country of the Big 3 before moving on to the already existing non-Big 3 or fully new country?
    I can live with both really, although for DTG I do understand they can't alienate their Big 3 audience too much, even though that'd still be getting way more attention than any other country ever got.
     
  22. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    225
    Likes Received:
    290
    I fear you may be right, although I do remember Matt explicitly stating that they are actually aware at DTG of the very large demand of specifically the Netherlands, so perhaps there's still hope. But there's a difference between being aware of, and acting on, of course.

    But yeah, I did indeed notice there's a large core audience for that Big 3, but as I said, I think that's also largely because of how underreported other, including Dutch railfan communities are.
    Dutch railfan communities are mostly active on their own little thing, and they're mostly still tearing on TS20xx community mod routes like 'T Hart van Nederland I feel like, cause basically, that's all we ever got, and we didn't even get it, we had to make it ourselves.
    They're not on TSW forums because there's nothing for them here.

    Which segue's nicely into arguments for different countries why they should be next and so just doing 1 new one and getting applause wouldn't be enough.
    In the case of the Netherlands, there's huge demand, never been any releases to cater to us, and so we had to do it ourselves, which, although pretty good, still isn't on the level of what any professional studio would've ever created.
    And now with TSW2 they're not only still not representing us finally, after all the clear signs of the demand for Dutch content, they're even taking the tools away for us to say "F it, I'll just do it myself".

    Japan is pretty obvious, it's really the most well known train country there is and the demand for it is huge.

    And most countries have a story a little bit like that I feel like.
    So solving it by just adding a single new country wouldn't be enough anymore I feel like.

    Part of this may be my bias speaking a little about the Netherlands still never having gotten any attention, but still. It's true regardless, so :)
     
  23. fabdiva

    fabdiva Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2019
    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    554
    With Japan my understanding is that the PC never got a big market share, with Playstation and Arcades being the dominant systems (hence Densha De Go being for PS and having full Arcade cabinets) and MSTS flopping - with TSW being on Playstation there is a good chance of it getting a foothold

    You'd also want the Game translated into Japanese - I'd suggest doing that in conjunction with Swiss routes as Switzerland is a popular destination for Japanese railfans and the Hakone railway is twinned with the RhB.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  24. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    225
    Likes Received:
    290
    Yeah, weirdly enough it usually helps for people to enjoy a game when they're actually able to navigate through it in a language they understand... Weird thing, wonder why that it :)
    I feel like this part speaks pretty well of that indeed, you're absolutely correct.
     

Share This Page