It's early days, but we have our first bits of info for Pfälzische Ludwigsbahn. So far, we know it'll be set in 2014, and DTG have named the already-existing 111 and 425 as expected rolling stock - any of our DE route experts have any educated guesses as to what new rolling stock we'd be likely to see on this route?
None, I would suspect. There is always the possibility for a new freight loco to make an appearance, however, I would have thought that this would have been named already. Timeframe and route would fit for everything, in this respect. Would like a br140 at some point (which wouldn’t be so hard to make, considering the 110 is already in the game) As for layers, of course the usual freight traffic. There are quite a few local businesses in the area being served by rail freight. Long distant in 2014 looks as follows (average Friday): 2x ICE T, 4x TGV, 8x ICE 3, 9x ICs and 2 ECs. The majority of the ICs are hauled by 101s and 120s and were short 6 car trains and no cab car. The 2 ECs were the only ones to have a cab car and were longer as well. I have also seen ICs being hauled by BR181s, however, according to the available data this was not standard ops. Anyway, as there were no screenshots in the roadmap I would suspect this route to be quite some time out, which still gives the chance for DTG to reconsider or make final decisions… we will see, I guess… EDIT: one addition and maybe as an idea for the one making the timetable. Kaiserslautern has quite a famous football club. There were quite regular chartered trains coming from direction Mannheim to bring fans to Kaiserlautern. Those were usually BR110s with n Wagen and KaKo. Would be nice to see them maybe during some football season months
Brilliant - thank you for the summary! Looks like we could be in for some great long distance services, especially if the TGV is included.
It's worth noting that it's highly unlikely the TGV from Marseille-Avignon will be used on this route, as the models operating in Germany are significantly different. Regarding the ICE 3 trains, all of them were actually the ICE 3MF variant, which is a modified version of the ICE 3M (that you know from the Cologne-Aachen line) and equipped with French safety systems. While it might seem possible to use the "standard" ICE 3M from the Cologne-Aachen route with a bit of imagination, this wouldn't be accurate in reality. (But having a closer look at the background picture of the route map it seems to me that there will be a type of the ICE 3M running on the route)
Wait the BR 111? Don't know why DTG would include it with this route, as I can't remember the 111 being used there in this era. Fitting rolling stock would be a modernised BR 425 for S-Bahn services, BR 101 for IC Services, BR 411 for ICE services, as well as the ÖBB 1016 for EC services. BR 628 and 642 can be layered for RB services on the branch lines, BR 406 and TGV 29000 as a placeholder for ICE 3MF, TGV POS and TGV 2N2. Freight services can operate with every German freight loco from that era and before. The BR 429 for SÜWEX service could be a possible loco DLC, as the SÜWEX entered service in December 2014.
According to my data the EC only uses ÖBB rolling stock from 2023. 2014 they used 101 hauled IC stock with cab car
to be honest they put the Luzern FLIRT with Integra-Signum and ETCS on Voralberg where only PZB exists.
Actiually, no. Have you ever tried using the in-game TGV on a german route in free roam? It's not working. The TGV needs 25 kV 50 Hz AC, while a german OHLE delivers 15 kV/16,7 Hz. And actually, this seems to be simulated in game correctly. You can't close the MCB of the in-game TGV (actually, the same with Class 395 (actually usable in free roam on the LGV Mediterranee, so I suspect HS1 is using LGV specifications), ACS-64, ACELA...) under a german OHLE in free roam, so I guess, it wouldn't work in timetable mode, either. That's why in scenario planner (besides other reasons,I guess), you got the 'Off the rails' option...
what ? NO new dosto ? come on , where is my gen-3 dosto ? So gameplay pack br 111 is copy from this DLC ...
To me just seems another identikit medium distance double track electric main line, nothing really iconic about it. And no new locos or EMU's to run on it. How about making it vintage and giving us a 141 or 151. Or a diesel main line allowing the 218 to stretch its legs.
The mere thought (of DTG) of developing a new line without even a new train (or livery) or a new carriage/freight car, would already be scandalous. But the fact that in addition to thinking about it they are actually building it in these conditions is, simply, GROTESQUE. I CLEARLY WON'T BUY IT.
Thinking about it I haven't seen a single person saying yes this is a route I am excited for. seeing the cab view after this announcement. 65 km vs an average of 80 I think. No new stock or something really interesting (if there was like a special movement or so someone would've said so already.) No local freight to the look of it and the big yards or the mess of tracks in Mannheim I expect to have all trains end and start at the same track in Ludwigshafen without any special even if they are AI moves there. a bit like Salzburg ingame. and just like Salzburg or Bremerhafen and not like Aschaffenburg. All branches, freight or passenger will be cut off at the main line and the big freight yard too difficult and not be in game. For me personally it really feels like a filler route and I feel bad for any developer putting their time and effort into this and expecting a positive response. after Frankfurt - Fulda, the announced Mittenwaldbahn and the most likely next german route going to be announced in a few months. this DLC is for me to be expected to be a big dud. A shame since I am interested to see what mannheim is all about seeing all those tracks there.
It is clear that DTG is no longer interested in developing addons with its own means. This shame of Kaiserslautern is proof of this. It is also clear that the intention is to leave this task in the hands of third parties. Only that the third parties are almost all British (only TSG is for German). The result is a release of addons, practically, in one direction only. In my opinion a total mess. I don't know if this will interest anyone (DTG), but I really don't like UK trains. You're losing a customer.
I have to say that despite my criticism of the 425 model, I am in fact looking forward to this route. The 425 is a really fun unit to drive, and its services on BRO and HRR are too short for my taste, so it getting a nice long run is definitely a plus for this route. Half the S-Bahn trains actually terminate in Kaiserslautern, so you can even do a really long out-and-back run if you want. The split of "urban junction mess" to "straight racetrack" to "beautiful, slow, winding valley" also looks really good to me. The fast services should be quite fun to drive. Looking at fernbahn.de, there's a pretty good mix of different long-distance trains as well. The ICE3M obviously, but also quite a few 101-hauled ICs and one pair of trains using the ICE-T. For freight, Kaiserslautern (Opel) and Ludwigshafen (BASF) are both freight origins and destinations, so that could still add some spice to the gameplay even if Opel and BASF themselves aren't included. There might also be some freight happening at Neustadt-Böbig - not quite sure there. There's a railway museum at Neustadt as well, so that could offer some good railtour gameplay. Ludwigshafen Hbf itself is also really interesting. It's a 1960s urban planning desaster, a bilevel triangle junction with a motorway brige on top of it that is so far from the city centre that even most RE services don't stop there any more. Driving through it (and all the complex junctions around it and Mannheim Hbf) is going to be cool. In my opinion this is actually a really compelling choice of route - it's just suffering from not being as big or as well-known as Frankfurt - Fulda, and DTG haven't done a great job of explaining what it offers so far.
I agree to a certain extend. I really do think the pure reuse of the rolling stock is a huge letdown! I was hoping at least for a new dosto cab car, as it would have been realistic and it would have been the absolute minimum, at least in my eyes. For me it now comes down to the layers they will incorporate. As I was proposing in this thread there may be a couple of special services the could include, apart from what you have already mentioned. https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...hn-mannheim-kaiserslautern.83817/#post-880137 As for the freight, I agree that there is potential. Unfortunately German fright has recently seen a u-turn when it comes to complexity of it on older routes. All in all, at least as it looks at the moment, I am not very hopeful that any of this will materialise, simply judging on how German DLCs have turned out to be recently, which was always the minimum possible. Maybe I am still spoiled by the expert 101, but I am somewhat disappointed with the recent development…
Last German routes from DTG, were outstanding, at least for me. Rosenheim is long and nice, same as Frankfurt. And now in Frankfurt we even have n-wagen.
Well, I am as I have stated before. It's a somewhat local route for me so I'm looking forward to seeing it in TSW. I don't mind the lack of new rolling stock. I care more about appropriate rolling stock than new one. Still, a new freight loco is a good example of the sort of thing that could have been included if the passenger stock is all there already. A 186 would have been an appropriate addition.
Which cab car would be correct? Somehow I can't find a single picture of a Dosto cab car on that line for the life of me.
So just because of 1 dlc, dtg are going downhill and there will no longer be good routes? Maybe the focus is on the type of gameplay or scenery. But why judge the entire company just on 1 single dlc.
I don't think this is fair nor true. Dovetail haven't stopped producing DLC and they haven't slowed down. We had this stage last year where the only route released after TSW4 came out was Blackpool (a 3rd party route) and back in TSW3 it was Birmingham or something. The last two cycles of TSW have been Pretty Big / Detailed / Depth Routes [Core] -> Small Filler / Average Regional Line [DLC] -> Repeat [DLC], Core again, repeat the whole thing. Third-parties definitely won't make everything, Dovetail aren't setup to do that.
Thanks for the replies Lamplight and mkraehe#6051. it definetely shed some new light on the project as I am not well known with the area. of course it will have to show how well it looks in the preview and if the freight and general timetable are good I will be able to not care at all about the lack of new stock. the last few dlc were really good and I doubt DTG have fallen off a cliff in quality. with an uninteresting timetable this route won't have much to offer for me though even as mannheim looks like a very interesting track layout of flyovers and switches. I do agree the last few freight timetables for the more recent routes have been less interesting than the earlier routes as lamplight said.
Probably one to consider for a sale purchase. Also, no new rolling stock wonder if the price will be pitched lower? £25 and then a pre order discount of 10% could tilt the balance of anyone sitting on the fence.
Three re-used trains? Is that really it? High Speed 1 and the Channel Tunnel are, by design, an extension of the LGV network. A TGV could theoretically run on HS1, and both Vectrons and ICE 3Ms have in the past. A Class 395 could in theory run on the French LGV, although the signalling systems it has aren't the same as TGVs.
65 km is also a shorter route for an average 120/130 km/h over the entire route, indeed with reused stock (so ig more time in route detail and timetable instead of vehicle creation if it still took the same development time to me sounds like not the full 35 for the route. if not I will probably wait for a sale unless it's really good
The dostos did not drive for very long on this route. I believe they were run on the RE7 between Trier and Mannheim during the years 2008 and 2014 only. The 111 came even later and was then obviously also disused after 2014 on here. In Saarbrücken you saw more, however, they did not carry on to mannheim, so only the RE7 should be drivable (someone more knowledgeable correct me if I am wrong). As far as I know the intention was to use exclusively gen4 dostos, but I have seen pictures from gen3 as well on there. Don’t have them at hand and I can’t promise they were actually from 2013. will post them when I find them, though… Regardless, even though the gen4 are not unrealistic it would have been a good opportunity to bring some variety into the dull TSW dosto landscape… EDIT: There is quite an interesting site about this route (in German only, unfortunately), which goes into quite some detail about operation and route itself: https://www.kbs-670.de/die strecke.php
No clue. I couldn't tell you what makes this route any different than the last 6 created for Germany and Austria. I'm sure a German might be able to tell us what's unique about it, but to me it looks like the same thing we've had many times before, just with different station names. How was this chosen over other suggestions? Remember the post by DTG about things a new route suggestion should have? Landmarks? New interesting rolling stock? New unique gameplay? Something novel not seen before? Historical significance? It just looks like another fairly short German commuter route in the 2000s between small cities. Should there have been more in the announcement trailer to sell this route? Or is there really nothing unique about this one?
I don't know about the Vectron, but the lone ICE 3M in 2012 was towed there - it wasn't allowed through the Tunnel under its own power.
Well well. I‘m still excited for this route as I work at Mannheim Hbf and its pretty close to actually being my „home“ route. I‘m looking forward to the full length 425 drives which is something I wished for since the release of the first 425 with HRR. However the choice of what looks like no new rolling stock is really disappointing. I mean I‘m glad the 111 is there as I think its very well done and I just like it in general. However, I was fairly certain someone from the German DTG Team hinted at a third generation Dosto Cabcar being developed for this route. I think it was in some of the Q&A streams regarding to TSW5 or something like that. Probably just a rumour then. I hope that at last, the 425 is properly updated to the configuration it runs for the S-Bahn Rhein Neckar then. Oh and please no red taillights that illuminate the whole city this time lol. I think a new freight loco (145/151/152/186/189) would‘ve been pretty neat and appropriate. We will see, maybe this wasn‘t everything and they will announce new rolling stock for the route just at a later point.
I know that the LaPoste TGV was towed through the Channel Tunnel and up to London, but I was under the impression the ICE 3 made it on its own power. I'm certain it entered the tunnel on its own, but I may be wrong about it running on HS1. The Vectron was on test and presumably went as far as Dolland's Moor like the BB22200s did, but I don't know enough about that test to say otherwise.
Same signaling system as it’s using the TVM-430 and KVB (same TVM-430 used on the Class 92), so in theory it can run on every LGVs even the ones equipped with the TVM-300. It just need to be approved by the EPSF (Public Office of the Railway Safety) and voilà ! There’s still two problems, it runs only under 25 kV AC for the catenary and the level boarding is too high.
Not sure what you mean by that. There are lots of potential routes which could be done and are either well known or a bit iconic. Anyone who has played Zusi 3 will be familiar with the Obereruhrtalbahn which is a nice scenic diesel main line which also has several steeply graded branch lines. Extending the Rhine Valley in either direction or adding the east bank. The line up through Ulm and the Black Forest to Stuttgart and beyond. Going back to Zusi, something around Altenbeken. Having grown quite fond of Maintalbahn, I would quite like to see that extended. Or revisit RSN and extend it so it matches that of the original TSC route.
Wow, that website is awesome. Still took me a moment to find any cab car photos - but it looks like reusing the one we all know and love is actually entirely correct. I'm fine with that then.
Woah, you are now guilty of me procrastinating the whole work day by reading that Regarding the route: I chime in with the ones that are looking forward for long 425 runs as I'm a fan of S-Bahn services and this class has a special place in my heart (was my daily commute before Corona with S-Bahn Rhein-Main for like 10 years). Hopefully the RailDriver Mods from Romansu72 are working without much adaption and the awesome Buchfahrplan from noir won't take too long so I can "put the lever on the desk" and start right through. My fingers are crossed that MAYBE the 101 Expert will have some services on this route, too? I'll get it anyway and as about yet I don't have a feeling of disappointment and looking forward for "more information in the future" ...
Looking at the pictures here 2014 I am crying that there's no 181 or 151 or at least 120 implemented. What a missed chance... Such iconic locos. Now Pfälzische Ludwigsbahn feels very underwhelming
Actually I‘m really hyped for this one since I lived near Mannheim for a long time and the Br425 was my childhood train- love to see it get some rural services now! What I would like to know is whether the ICE3M got an zpgrade from the SKA one and whether he got ToD4 now? And if the Br425 taillights have been fixed! And I really hope we finally get the Br185.2 with the livery from RSN- it‘s one of the best but the loco model itself is so outdated; and I just don‘t want to see the Railion anymore XD
I don't know why, but I don't feel so enthusiastic. Trains arranged and fast route a bit short to appreciate a high speed trip. We'll see later if my feelings are wrong.
I mean that, personally I don't need a route to be "iconic" or bring something totally new, as long as it brings new gameplay that I enjoy. That's why I really liked the Bremen-Oldenburg route (regardless of the BR110 or not, I mostly drive IC and freight) and I why I am looking forward to this route as well (freight and IC/ICE) Don't get me wrong, I also like the iconic routes as well, but like I said "comfort food".
I do fear that most of the reused stock needs an update. not even for new functions but for them being broken like old TOD or broken tail lights for the 425 for example. Seeing more about the route, it sounds like a shorter Salzburg - Rosenheim and unless it has an impeccable timetable instead of the most basic up and down freight services to the exact same tracks I don't see this any different than indeed comfort food. however I am willing to be wrong when the preview stream comes along. for now my eyes are fully on Mittenwaldbahn though.
While I wasn't on them too often back then, they sure stick with you. That acceleration sound is hard to forget - though much more pleasant than the equally hard-to-forget rattling trash bins. I agree. I am biased for Bremen - Oldenburg because of my love for the Einheitseloks but the timetable is a real highlight on the route and makes me come back to it every so often.
However, the 395s would need to be modified to at least have the crocodile safety system, unless DVD could be approved as an alternative.
