Ever since this route (Mannheim to Kaiserslautern) was announced on Dovetail Live, I've been thinking about what rolling stock might come with it (don't worry, it hasn't dominated my life). Assuming it fits the usual German route pattern or 1 new train, a bunch of existing/adjusted ones, or load more layers. But I can't work out what the new train would be - if it was set now, it would be fairly obvious, the Suwex Flirt 2, but it's not, it's set in 2010, and everything that ran on the route then pretty much already exists. The S-Bahn is operated by 425s. Long distance traffic sees a mixture of ICE3M/ICE-T/Intercity/TGV Regional trains would be the standard Dosto or n-Wagen plus an electric loco. Freight is pretty well covered. So what could it be? They could make the 3rd generation of Dostos, but DTG have had opportunities to make older Dosto coaches before, and haven't, so they are unlikely to, unless it's a route in the pre-Taffic Red era. ICE2s were briefly seen on this route, but as an emergency measure, and it's not really their home route. There is a 5-car ICE-T, but it would be weird on its own Older locos, like the non-Bugelfalte 110s, and the similar looking 139/140/141 were kind of being phased out by then From the same family, there is an older heavy freight loco, the 151, but although the route has freight, it's hard to imagine it being freight-focused There are DMU services that branch off, but this isn't the core route. A missing DMU is the Talent 1 643/644 The best bet might be the class 181. These are able to run to France and Luxembourg, so would have run the Frankfurt to Paris services on this route. Going against that, they were replaced by ICE and HSTs by 2010, so would have limited use - and the route doesn't reach the border so no voltage changes will be available. In summary, who knows?
well, the 425 is definitely there, so that’s 1 piece of rolling stock.. As the ICE pictured, I believe that is an ICE 3MF, its basically the ICE 3M with French Safety Systems. Lukas did hint at older doppelstock being used on this route, so I wouldn’t be surprised
This short bypass around Schifferstadt feels a bit overkill, the "fast" line avoids just one station.
The ICE3MF's, all six of them, only do the Frankfurt-Paris run; they could appear at Kaiserslautern as AI, but wouldn't run on the modeled route.
3MF would be a great choice to finally give the 406 overall in TSW a massive upgrade since it was introduced with Cologne-Aachen.
I'd assume it's more of a speed limit thing than simply skipping the station. The curve near the station may be too thight, so they made a bypass track that allows for a higher speed curve I guess?
The Frankfurt - Paris trains go via Mannheim and Kaiserslautern, and stop at both stations. They will absolutely be playable. As you can see, there isn't actually another electrified route to Saarbrücken, and onwards to France: (C) OpenStreetMap Contributors Exactly right! The bypass is 160 km/h all the way, while the curve at the station is just for 100 km/h.
Either there will be no completely new loco or they make a 111 with the modern pantograph type. I personally hope for a gen 3 dosto cab car though. With layers for FFA of course. Edit: Would be nice if DTG stops making routes based on 2010 to 2013, so we could get some nice modern EMU's. Flirt 3, Ice 3 Neo etc.
They pretty much said that the main stock feature will be BR111 + old dostos, as least going by the snippet of interview from Gamescom. There is a thread about it somewhere here.
The more I hear about this route, the less excited I get for it. I personally don't see why anyone would accept paying full price if the only new stock we're getting is different gen Dostos when something like Zwolle - Groningen, Preston - Carlisle, or the Worcester Line is objectively much more exciting. A Suwex FLIRT would have been something unique and provided an extra layering option for many routes, but never underestimate Dovetail's decision to do the illogical.
While I get where you’re coming from, I wouldn’t dismiss a route just for that reason. DRA also only had ‘recycled’ rolling stock.
I guess the german community would feel a bit different about this statement. I know a lot of people who don't care about anything else except their home country and patiently wait for new content of it. However although I can understand that some people see it as a requirement for a route DLC to come with a new loco and the comparison between routes in regard to the relation between same list price and offer is controversial, I think exactly this circumstance is also what kills a lot of good route ideas. And especially the more time comes in and the more rolling stock we already have available in Train Sim World, this becomes more and more a problem. The demand for a new loco per route will need to change at least at some point in the next few years. On the other hand, selling it for less price is in these times where everything in our daily life becomes more and more expensive, not something which is realistic. There still is a lot of work going into building routes and as I can see the route will be contained of 17 stations and has 70 kilometers. All of these needed to be modelled properly and takes effort. I personally would be okay with a route for the same full price as a route with a new loco, if the route offers much more gameplay than a small route with a new loco. Take Maintalbahn or Niddertalbahn for example, where you got new locos with it, but only got a route of 30-ish kilometers and a limited timetable. Therefore you will get a new route here with 70 kilometers and probably a lot of variety with ICE, IC, RE, RB and S-Bahn services in the timetable. Of course it depends on the quality of the end product, but at a first sight it seems comparable to me.
I should say that my post isn't really a complaint. A new train would be nice, but the lack of one is fine if there's nothing missing, and my post is based on that fact: everything is already there. It's a luxury that we have with new German routes set this century, they will - although there are things to add - almost never be severely lacking any train type. It's a luxury we don't have with modern UK routes, as the railway system is more atomised, nor with other countries with relatively few addons, and it's an enormous bonus to German routes
Personally I’m not against the idea of a DLC that would reuse the locos/MU’s but finally added some more variations of dostos. It’s not like German content is short on decent locos for the time being. The majority of German routes in TSW use dostos and more than a couple use the wrong type. If we can get a DLC in that introduces a couple of new types & upgrades the existing ones that can be subbed to other applicable routes, I’d be good with that. Generally speaking this route looks to have a lot of variety in terms of operation, which in turn means getting use out of various bits of stock. Having a DLC with well made trains is great, but I think what can be equally great, is a solid route to play them all on, and hopefully that’s what this will be.
I feel like RB/RE content seriously suffers by now. In one direction you have at least some variety between 110/111/143/146.2, but all services in the other direction are still the same dostos as in Rapid Transit more than six years ago, just in various level of unplayability and bugs. I just barely touch it by now, while that's where most of the dev time is sank into, as all other services just zoom through those pretty detailed stations. I don't really care if it's another generation of dostos, some newer EMU or even routes where stopping services are served by 425, but just provide us something that layers across everything, I don't want to be driving the same thing anymore.
I do want to hear more about this route in upcoming roadmaps as to me as well this route seems not very interesting both in stock and scenery/track complexity. I think it will be some DoSto's again (hopefully another generation though so it's somewhat new) in varying state of unplayability and bugs, the 425 too and a mix of IC and freight. pretty much Bremen Oldenburg but a bit longer. just like Noir I usually don't drive those DoSto services either as nothing much changed in the last 6 years and most are broken now. The same can be said for the 422 having no rain on the window for example on DRA for years now. the broken tutorial was fixed a few months back I think but I still fear redoing it. just new interior, core functions added like destination displays and TOD is all the dosto's got. slapping a logo to the side doesn't count as new for me. a full repaint adding services is worth something though like the 182 dispolok or flixtrain vectron. This route as it has been announced really feels like a buffer to just release something whilst time is prioritised somewhere else. especially after releases like Frankfurt - Fulda and Salzburg - Rosenheim have set the bar for german and austrian routes high. I would've mentioned Semmeringbahn too but the use of just the ÖBB 1116 and only one coach on IC, EC, EN and ÖBB/CD RJ services really hurts. the lack of any austrian content on the roadmap makes me believe that is an issue not to be fixed before 2026 turns up. or TSW6 if yearly releases are the way forward. I think a rework of the amount of dosto's bringing them to a funtioning state would be very great for this route. and maybe easier than a personal developer wanting to refurbish a route on their own. them all having improved suspension, conductor mode and the same audio (if it's been updated somewhere, not sure) so they are all on the level of the current FTF ones makes almost every route worth replaying since DoSto's are seen everywhere in germany. the only thing holding this back is of course time and people available. and the different TOD's on routes. I think updating older routes to the stationdirectory system of destination displays wouldn't take too much time. Of course it's also possible to add the very loved KISS trains and completely forgetting DoSto's with loco's exist. just like the broken 185's now being replaced with vectrons...
As they already mentioned in an interview that the timetable is exactly the 2013-2014 timetable, I know it won't happen, but I really would love to see the SÜWEX Flirt 3 on this route. They went into service with the 2014-2015 timetable, so the time still roughly fits, but I understand why they choose exactly the timetable before that as to not have to introduce the Flirt to this route. This EMU would finally mixup the same old DB red for regional services in this game and it would finally be something else than the same old dosto's for RE services. It would give this route some more uniqueness that helps it stand out. Flirt EMUs are now a common place all over germany and this route would've been perfect to introduce the Flirt 3 to the game. Especially with Frankfurt Fulda, and a potentially Mannheim-Frankfurt route in the future, where they could be AI layers, I would love to see this.
I do find it odd how with German routes they constantly find a way to ensure they develop little in the way of new rolling stock. Usually it’s a loco that gets bunged with the near decade old dostos, or coaching stock from an existing family. Was it Mainz Koblenz now we last got a whole new trainset for Germany?
yeah I think just like Salzburg - Rosenheim. the lack of licenses and a partnership with operators not being DB is the reason for Flirts and other colors than DB red or DB white and blue existing ingame. on Salzburg - Rosenheim it does work since the construction site and thus temporary slow speed section brings something interesting to a usually perfect world. and a lot of people were excited for the 111. I personally had never heard of the loco. Some new coaching stock would defenitely be refreshing. the dosto's are very old now as they all feel the same and if we get IC coaches, well. for ÖBB we only got the Bmz and in the stream the hosts were actually confused there was only one coach. also. remind me again how many dlc we had since the last new freight wagon. I think it was Eanos with the Vectron. or if the Es with niddertalbahn counts. at least freight in england is more interesting as you can load wagons sometimes and skyhook is doing an amazing job with all the cargo packs. sadly that is limited by the class 66 suffering the same curse of different bugs and broken/missing functions like the DoSto's have. apart from a 151 and maybe an SBB vectron the german loco's for freight are doing really good and with noir's freight calculator are really enjoyable to drive. especially on Ruhr-Sieg Nord with matt's shunting timetable.
I don't expect anything and thus this will be the first german dlc I will get later on a sale as for what I know it brings nothing exciting. maybe if I knew the area but that also not.
Thats correct! Here you have all the long distance trains that runs from Saarbrücken Hbf in the year 2018... If im right thats the correct route year... https://www.fernbahn.de/datenbank/suche/?fahrplan_jahr=2018&zug_bereich=&zug_gattung=&zug_nummer=&zug_linie=&zug_name=&laufplan_tfz=&ice_typ=&wagengattung=&wagengattung_suche=AND&bahnhof_name=Saarbrücken+Hbf&bahnhof_richtung=&bahnhof_richtung2_modus=1&bahnhof_richtung2=&fahrplan_tage[]=1&fahrplan_tage[]=2&fahrplan_tage[]=3&fahrplan_tage[]=4&fahrplan_tage[]=5&fahrplan_tage[]=6&fahrplan_tage[]=7&reiseplan[]=1&reiseplan[]=2&ergebnisspalten[]=zuggattung&ergebnisspalten[]=startbahnhof&ergebnisspalten[]=zielbahnhof&fv_suche_detail=1#fv_suche_detail
I think you are forgetting a certain tilting train that was released less than a month ago Before that I imagine it was the 642 last year.
To clarify I mean in the context of DB Red/Regional Stock, but yes that would be the 642. It’s more an observation than a complaint, by & large the German rolling stock is mostly in good shape, it’s just the rather aged dostos that let things down.
This route initially didn't draw my attention, but after I learned that the route had plenty of IC1 services IRL in the 2010s I'm now very excited For me routes are more of a playground where I can drive my favourite trains (assuming it is region appropriate and somewhat era appropriate), rather than a vehicle (excuse the pun) for a new locomotive/train.
Sorry to disappoint, but in 2018, it had two IC1 services per day in each direction. The rest is ICE-T (1 per direction) and ICE3 (everything else). Of course, if you took the scope of the Expert 101 timetables beyond just a copy of the original timetable with the formations swapped out, you could go back to, say, 2012 and indeed have lots of IC1 action. Some of them even stop at Neustadt (Weinstr) and Ludwigshafen, so they'd be pretty fun to drive.
no it's in 2014 but i'm still speculate that we can get a TGV euroduplex (2N2 3UA) it could be really nice for TSW and LGV med need a big remaster too the LGV med is in 2018-19 and there was a lot of 2N2s was for TSEE (paris gare de lyon) series 80X and 47XX and i maked a interesting suggestion on a possibility to add the tgv euroduplex the POS was not anymore in service in Germany since 2014 it was to spring 2013 , and TGV PSE (Tricourant 1**) was replaced with the TGV pos for Switzerland in 2013
I was convinced it was 2018, but no, apparently it's 2014. Sorry! That year does look better for IC1s. Seven (and an ECS move?) one way, eight the other. No cab car on most of them, which is interesting.
The route really appeals to me, I lived in Mainz for many years and later in Karlsruhe, so I often travelled in the Südpfalz and know this region well. It doesn't bother me at all that I won't get any new rolling stock, especially because I would be looking forward to another route for the BR 111, which I think is excellently implemented. And being able to drive the ICE 3, the ICE-T and my beloved BR 101 (thank you cwf.green !) on another route would also be great. Nevertheless, this route will definitely not be a day 1 purchase for me. After the catastrophic experience with Frankfurt - Fulda on the Xbox Series S (crashes and an officially unannounced reduced timetable without ICE 1, ICE 3 and BR 101, i.e. with less than half of the possible long-distance traffic), I am now very cautious and will wait and see how this route performs in terms of these things. It's just no fun driving on a very empty route. Not to mention the constant crashes. My hope is that the system requirements for Mannheim - Kaiserslautern are similar to those for Salzburg - Rosenheim, which has been running satisfactorily stable for me, apart from a few crashes immediately after the release. But as I said, I'll wait and see.
