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Physics....

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by rpeterbroughlowe, Mar 14, 2021.

  1. rpeterbroughlowe

    rpeterbroughlowe Active Member

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    Has anyone else noticed when going up a slight gradient (0.1 - 0.4%) your speed (when coasting) actually increases and the opposite happens when going down hill. It's quite evident in Tees Valley and not hard to notice. What's going on?

    I'm I missing something glaring obvious here?
     
  2. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    I have also seen this and I think the problem is the HUD indication, not the train physics. HUD gives you the current gradient at the locomotive position, but this may be different from the rest of the train. So if mayor part of train is in downhill the speed will increase, even if locomotive has just entered an uphill area, as the rear wagons are pushing the front ones.

    Cheers
     
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  3. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    It is because TSW2 does not change the gradient display relative to your directional movement, as it did in TSW2020, but instead it is now fixed for the locomotive. The reason you are experiencing this in TVL is because the gradient is displaying relative to the "rear" cab, or in the game's perspective, the "main" cab. In other words, it would display normally if you flipped the locomotive around and used the other end. It is annoying for sure.

    Cheers
     
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  4. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    The trains on TVL get confused. They don’t know which is front and back. For example, if you select the front camera, you get the rear and vice versa. Hopefully when TVL is being looked at, this can be addressed.
     
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  5. rpeterbroughlowe

    rpeterbroughlowe Active Member

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    cheers guys.

    I must say I did consider where the hud is taking the reading. However this happens over a long period of time/distance, not just when peaking over a gradient. Something seem very off, but like you say, it's due for a overhaul.
     
  6. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    If you look in the 2D map, the icon for your loco may show it going square end first, in other words in "reverse", and so the grade indicator may read backwards. (In some old BR diesels, there is actually a sign on the dash reading "Cab 1" or "Cab 2" - 2 is the "back.")

    You get used to it-- although it would be more user-friendly if the gradient indicator were made to conform to the reverser position.
     
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  7. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    If you look at the numbers under the gradient icon, they are always correct for the direction of travel. Only the icon shows incorrectly. A downhill gradient will correctly show a minus sign in front of the number even if the train icon points uphill. No minus sign indicates an uphill gradient even when the train icon points downhill. Once you know the game is showing the icon wrongly in a service you can concentrate just on the figures. This only applies when you are actually moving (if you stop the gradient shown will match the icon), it only starts showing correctly once you are moving again.
     
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  8. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    This is an old problem that should have been fixed.

    Personally I’m still waiting for a Hud redesign.
    Distance to next stop, and signal preview should all be in the Hud area, not scattered in three corners of the screen.
     
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  9. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    For locomotives with double cab like the DB 185 or the British Rail Class 31 we have the gradient sensor only in Cab 1. If we are driving from Cab 2 we see the wrong gradient, cause the sensor is in Cab 1.
     
  10. rpeterbroughlowe

    rpeterbroughlowe Active Member

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    Thanks Guys, very helpful.
     
  11. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    I actually prefer it this way. The HUD on the bottom right is for the controls of your train, while the signal, speed limit and next destination displays are a separate thing from train controls - therefore they are in a different place in screen.

    And if everything was at the bottom, you could see nothing of the cab at the bottom of the screen, while the top of the screen, where the is basically nothing but sky, would be empty and unused. This way space is nicely utilized and it's not a big mess of data in one corner. You know which corner to look at for which information. With everything in one corner it would be too crowded.
     
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  12. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    There is a fairly big and confusing issue with the HUD. The problem is in inconsistency in the use of directions. YOu may see a lot of issues:

    - The gradient indicator works wrong
    - I saw the accellerometer work upside down
    - Door indicator lift/right shows the wrong value
    - When stopped, it shows the aspect of a signal behind the train.

    This really is a big mess and very confusing. I reported this as a bug and I really hope it will be fixed. It should not be very hard to do so, but it requires care during development. and this is not the strongest point of DTG.
     
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  13. whiteleym#4287

    whiteleym#4287 Member

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    I've noticed something similar with the Class 37 SEHS Rail tour. When you should be going downhill and gaining speed it actually behaves as if you're off up hill and losing speed.

    Also when you go to the 'Front' camera it actually goes to the back of the train. It's almost like the entire train and physics is back to front.
     
  14. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    This happened to me with the class 47/4. I'll set the camera to front camera and it will go to the back of the train
     
  15. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    I think it's the Class 20 that's causing the grief.

    I think they've set the cab end of the 20 to be the rear, and as such to make it the "correct" way round (ie cab forward), the loco has to be (as far as the game is concerned) back-to-front - regardless of what the loco actually is.
     
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  16. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It's a universal problem with double-ended locomotives. The game logic requires that one cab permanently be the "front", and it doesn't care which end you're driving from. If you look at the 2D map, frequently your loco icon will be going square end first.

    I think it would make more sense - although it might require individual, loco-by-loco changes - to redefine "front" as whichever way the reverser is pointed.
     
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  17. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    Basically whichever end you are keyed into has to be dynamically assigned as the front of they train in all the UIs.

    As noted; it is especially noticeable on TVL.

    I'm guessing this isn't an easy one to fix as it has been around for so long and rarely gets acknowledged as an issue by DTG (if at all).
     
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  18. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    The EoT devices and portable tail lights also get crazy when changing cabs and many times they are spawned at the front cab instead of at the end of train, or even not spawned at all.

    Cheers
     
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  19. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I noticed this oddity on SEHS too running the diesel railtour trips, the gradient indicator was reversed. However when I set up my own Off The rails activity with a loco, the gradients displayed correctly. It is a bit of a bug though and could trap the unwary driver into an overspeed or even a SPAD.
     
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  20. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    I fully agree with your proposed solution. I did something similar in the technical reports section of this forum.
     
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  21. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    In today's Arosa Line stream with Jasper, the same HUD issue was evident with the gradient indicator flipped around. He mentioned that this will be fixed in a day 1 patch for Arosa

    Hopefully Rivet can share with DTG on how they fixed it so they can apply it to the other routes as well.
     
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