I'm currently flying at 39000ft over my house in real time in Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020. Looking out of my window, everything I can see in the real world matches in the Sim. Graphics wise, weather, clouds, lighting, shadows, wind direction, even the AI traffic is correct (currently have a very noisy 777 going over). I have hardware (throttle / sidestick / rudder pedals) and can use my Ipad to connect to the Sim for navigation and use specific switch panels in the cockpit. Even though their is very little to do once up in the air, the immersion is so much better and on a different level compared to that in Train Simmulator and I'm trying to think why? (i have over 700 hours in TSC!) When driving a train there is so much going on in the cab but I just dont get the same level of immersion as flying. Microsoft have just announced they are bringing out a new flight Simulator for 2024 which will be backward compatable with the now over 3000 pieces of DLC currently available. (12 million users apprarently now) Both plane and train simulator have the roughly the same sort of history, and surely trains are used more than planes in the realword, but what can be done to improve Train Simulator to obtain a better realworld level of immersion? (time to prepare for landing!)
Because With an Aircraft the controls are similar from one Jet to another, Throttle,sidestick,rudder, and the bit in the middle that you steer it with. With a train most controls are different in some way or another - units have either a combined power brake handle or two handles. Older units have mechanical gears where you have to change up to gain speed. Electric locos are driven in different ways, you either just open the power handle and sit back or you have to apply the power notch at a time. I saw a picture on FB where a chap had a desk built to drive German locos with hand dles to work the power, brakes and AFB. Switches for the lights, Door Control, Pantograph Control, Sifa and LZB. But even that only applied to modern Taurus, Traxx and Vectron locos. Old DB locos have to be driven. Yes there is the RailDriver and other versions, ATS do switch panels and press buttons to help with the immersion but they only go so far. A bit like this panel https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/arduino-controller-build.45279/ There is nothing to cover the different features of a train cab.
I tried to change the last line to "There is nothing to cover all the different features of a train cab." And the system would not let me because it thinks there might be SPAM in it? What?
I think you're exaggerating the differences between trains and minimising the differences between planes...
A lot of the features of aircraft are common between different types - they all have a set of throttles between the pilot and co-pilot, pedals for the flaps and a "joystick" or whatever it is called to steer the thing. All of which can be replicated by the add-ons you can buy commercially. But there is nothing apart from Raildriver for train sims and that is based on North American locos. Yes you can buy bits to cobble together like AWS and Door Buttons for modern stock but nothing for older stock.
I think the reason for that probably has more to do with the much higher popularity of flight sims...
You are a bit like a chap on UKTS who like to reply to some parts of a post. My original reply to the the OP was on the subject of why Flight Sims have a greater level of immersion. Do flight sims have a greater popularity over Train Sims? Difficult to say as there are 4 - 5 mainstream Simulators but only a few Flight Sims
The number of titles is not the point. The number of people playing them is. And when you take into account more games can use joysticks etc. than just simulators of civilian aircraft...
Just quoted the word your post seems to be about. Some people are most interested in driving through the environment and marveling at scenery, while others love to be an engineer, to operate the machinery. Comparing MSTS and early TSC cabs (CN SD40-2) to more recent ones, it appears that the designers opted to support my kind of player a little more - the pretty part of the game. To support engineer players and overcome mouse clumsiness, VR is one option but a huge screen is better. Raildriver is also a nice compromise but it doesn't mimic any cab properly. Which is nitpicking, driving 1960s GT cars using a Ferrari wheel with pad shifters, or driving trains with a keyboard. So maybe that, a proper big controller with all the common functionality could work.
Having spent many years on flight sims and editing airports for them the differences I see are as follows:- - TSC is more based around scenarios (of course you can run free roam) and are ‘contained’ within a Route. Flight Sim not so much - Flight Sim if done properly requires keeping an eye on NOTAMS, Stars, SIDS etc so much more planning needed - TSC requires more vigilance due to signaling and speed requirements- can be unforgiving if you walk away and come back - oops - Flight Sim once up in the air can be just autopilot
Hardware is certainly an immersion factor. For flying I have 3 sets (brought in Sales / Birthdays etc): - Airbus specifc Sidestick / Throttle / Pedals for Airbus Aircraft (A320) - Hotas Sidestick / Throttle / Pedals for flying general jet avaition (and DCS) - Yoke / Throttle / Pedals for Boeing 747 and smaller Cesna type Aircraft. For trains, I use the ATS Powerhandle / Buttons / Door Box - and that has to cover pretty much everything. Great for immersion on Class 390's and EMUs. not so good on the HST and Diesels, so the immersion factor does go down. MSFS has exploded with the amount of users now playing. At the latest Xbox forum, Asbobo Studios (The DTG of the Flight Sim) stated that they picked up the phone to Microsoft and said "give us a tonne of money and we will build an awesome Sim to showcase your products" ... which Microsoft did do! I wonder if DTG still have a relationship with Microsoft? If so, might be worth a phone call!
Having been for many years the proud holder of a pilots licence and owner of a Cessna 120 as a result of starting in flight simulator I haven't gone back to it even after giving up flying. Its really just not the same at all. Its a good fun product but nothing like flying ( at least in a single engine taildragger). What makes flying fun and challanging is actually rather the most important missing element. I have never driven a steam loco and so currently am content in my happy ignorance of how this sim compares to the real thing. I rather suspect it doesn't really but I enjoy simming anyway.
I have over 1500 hours in msfs 2020 and wondered why I have waisted so much time staring at a screen with train sim at least your doing something with that time
The only flightsim worth participating in is the one where you put the crosshairs over the Messerschmidt Me 109 in front and let him have it with all 8 barrels. The civilian ones are for people who can't sleep. You don't need a plane to see your house in google earth either. Yawn.
