Please Improve Tsws Airliner 3d Model

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by jamesbaby286, Oct 2, 2021.

  1. jamesbaby286

    jamesbaby286 Well-Known Member

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    Brighton Main Line has us closer than ever to an airport and TSWs airliner model. With landing aircraft being immediately in front of any train stopped at Gatwick Airport station, and the track allowing us to be well within a train length away from it flying over, it is more important than ever that the aircraft look believable.

    It was seen in the stream today that BML is sticking with the same airliner model used in past TSW content. This greatly disappoints me as in its current state, the model's proportions and shape are distractingly unlike anything that exists in real life. Previously it has only been used as a piece of distant scenery. where its flaws were something that could be much more easily brushed aside. It was seen landing at Newark, flying over Koln, etc.

    I have heard in the past that changing the aircraft model isn't necessary compared to other potential changes, but I believe the fact that as this is a commonly reused asset (Brighton Main Line will be the 4th or 5th route with it) and it is more in-your-face than ever, it really needs a facelift to TSW2 standard.
    Or even to TS standard as the TS2013 Brighton Main Line route had a very realistic plane model based on a real aircraft.

    The view from Gatwick Airport Station as seen in todays TSW2 BML stream:
    Screenshot 2021-10-02 071528.png

    At Teeside Airport on TVL (used console command camera to get this close):
    20191212054026_1.jpg
    20191212053801_1.jpg

    The closest counterpart to the general shape would be an A330. I'll use it as a comparison to break down how to improve the existing model, if an entirely new model is impossible.

    A330:
    AF-accident-aircraft.jpg

    So the thing that throws the model off the most is the placement of the engines. As you can see above, planes with just 2 engines do not have their engines far out on the wing, and in fact keep them close to the fuselage. So the first priority is to move them in. And if you're moving the engines you might as well move the wings up to be in a more realistic position too.

    The next most major thing is the shape of the nose. It isn't shaped like any existing airliner. It is either far too pointy, or if it is going for the look of an airliner that has a pointy nose (like a CRJ200 or 747) it is the wrong size, shape, engine layout. It has the edge loops there that can allow for a less pointy nose, but the transition from straight fuselage to the conical shape of the nose starts too far back on the aircraft.

    With the planes at Gatwick coming in to land with the wheels out, its important they be in all the correct positions. The nose gear needs to be moved significantly further forward. Both the rear gear are currently protruding from the body of the aircraft, when they should be further apart, connecting to the area around about the join of the wing and the fuselage. All the wheels should be a bigger, but especially the rear landing gear which needs to be much bigger.

    The easiest change that can be made is to the texture of the aircraft. The passenger window line is too low and needs to be moved up. The cockpit texture is too high and need to be lowered. They both could have their features be a bit darker to improve the visibility of them as well. If the wings can be made to be silver/grey that would be an instant improvement.

    Another change that I would also find nice but aren't as pressing is the addition of winglets for the ends of the wings. There are very few airliner types that fly without winglets today.

    Ultimately DTG, if this isn't enough reason to modify the model and texture that's ok; Instead allow me to bring to your attention the fact that the texture features an unlicensed Star Alliance logo ;)

    Changes needed:
    20191212053801_1 - Copy copy copy.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2021
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  2. jamesbaby286

    jamesbaby286 Well-Known Member

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    As an addendum...

    The plane used in Train Simulator 2013's Brighton Main Line:
    20211002095322_1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
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  3. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    That TSW plane really bugs me. Now we will get to see it closer than ever. It’s definitely time to make a new one, one that looks like it’s been drawn by a grown-up with at least one functioning eye. Too harsh? I don’t think so, look at the excellent points made in the posts above. The current model doesn’t really have anything right about it.
     
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  4. JellyScrub

    JellyScrub Member

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    To me, I dont really care about whether a plan model isn't perfect in a train simulator. I'd rather the dev time was spent on something more useful.
     
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  5. Lunar_Twisted

    Lunar_Twisted Well-Known Member

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    It almost reminded me games like Ace Combat, Microsoft Flight Simulator or racing sims. Spectators in racing sims don’t look great in a game about racing. Those cities and towns looks very detailed from high above but not so much when you get closer to the ground.The scale of the environments looks different. It’s a similar situation with Train Sim World, Train Simulator 20XX or any train sims out there. The trains are so detailed in a game when you drive trains but not so much in other places like the environment or traffic vehicles. Like the roads/highways in this game looks awful and doesn’t represent the actual layout.
     
  6. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    A plane? I do get that you want everything perfect in the game but a plane that will only be visible in the distance? Have you seen the people on the platforms? You see them up close at every station. The plane looks even better than the people on the platforms. Leave the plane alone. There is way more things that ruin the immersion than that plane. What bothers me more is tree branches that don't act like tree branches hitting a locomotive at high speed.
     
  7. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Active Member

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    Jeez, it's Train sim world, not Plane sim world
     
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  8. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Guys, OP doesn't want this
    image_14386.jpg

    The stock plane in TSW looked "fine" while flying over Köln or in the distance in NEC, but when seen from close proximity il looks awful, and there are many people that are both passionate about trains and planes and will notice the bad look immediately.

    IMO the only thing really needed is changing the placements of the engines, everything else is not that important.

    Look at the train in ETS 2
    Ets2_00159.png
    It doesn't look like TSW, but it's not TSW plane level bad.

    The model used for TS is much better.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
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  9. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    I love people more than planes, so fix the passengers first.
     
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  10. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    BML will have the new Rush Hour passenger system present in NEC and BRD, what's wrong with that?
     
  11. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    You mean the ugly zombies from Dresden and Boston? Sorry but I don't understand the question when you ask what's wrong with them in a topic about a prop in the distance not looking like a real plane. The rush hour people don't look like real people. Even on Playstation 3 there were already better looking NPC"s in video games.
     
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  12. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    It would be cool if they improved the model now that you can actually see the plane up close.
     
  13. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    This is by no means an unreasonable request. They have included an aeroplane that is animated and therefore must expect players to look at it. I wonder why such a bad job was done in the first place. Placing the engines in the wrong place on the wing is as much work as placing them in the correct place. They should have done it correctly in the first place and then we wouldn’t be complaining. Other details on the model may not be so obviously wrong but if they do create a new model they may as well do a better job this time.
     
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  14. Trainmania100

    Trainmania100 Well-Known Member

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    The road vehicles emergency braking and doing 2 mph around corners before flooring it 5-60mph in 0.5 seconds bugs me but personally I ignore it , I'd be fine with poor quality planes. It's a train sim.
     
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  15. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    You brought up the topic of people, if you didn't say anything I wouldn't have asked.

    Yes, I'm talking about the Zombies from NEC and BRD, I can't see how those can be improved without bringing a performance hit, BRD already crashed regularly on old gen. They are the best in the train simulation market right now.

    How is having good looking passengers and a good looking plane objectively different? You prefer one thing over the other, but neither are a fundamental part of train driving, MSTS worked fine with no passengers. TS works fine with the actual zombies
    trainsim912311.jpg

    The plane issue could have been ignored when it was just a prop you could see for half a second in the far distance, like in Köln or in NEC, but here it's very close to the train and very well visible.

    A lot of railways go to a lot of airports so I would be surprised if this is the last time we ever see a plane from this close distance, and the current model looks much worse than those "zombies". You want the best of the best of people modelling, I want just the bare minimum for something that at least looks like a plane.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
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  16. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    The reason I mention people is because you see them everywhere in the game. Every stop there are people on the platforms you even have them sitting in the back of your train if you are doing passenger service. Why is having good looking people different from a good looking plane? Good looking people will benefit every player. You only benefit from a good looking plane if you have BML and come near the airport.

    If you are going to use the argument of last gen consoles, why on earth would you even make those consoles burst in to flames by adding a well detailed prop on the airport? :D
     
  17. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    This would be fine
    Not exactly highly detailed in any way. Even the current plane with the engine in a slightly different position would be fine actually.

    That plane probably has fewer polygons then those "zombies" and it would be only 1 or 2? Instead of 10s of people in the same platform.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
  18. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    As last gen consoles are being used as an excuse for everything on the forum not to implement stuff in the game you can imagine that even a few polygons more would break the game for last gen consoles. ;)
     
  19. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    No, last gen is not an excuse, the update can be rolled out to only next gen and/or PC if needed. I did bring up last gen console to tell you that passenger can have a bigger impact than you imagine, even then, my argument stands.

    Passengers are already very good considering the competition on other train simulators, and to improve those it would require a lot more work and effort, and have a much bigger performance hit compared to moving two engines by a few meters, and would have overall less impact or the same impact on gameplay. You personally find passengers more important, and the current passenger to be inadequate, but I don't think many people have a problem with passengers post Rush Hour.

    The problem is diminishing returns. To get the passengers from "good" to "excellent" takes a lot more resources than turning that plane from "awful" to "bad", so even if there isn't a plane in every single station, the work/reward shouldn't be too different. Especially when a 2013 model looks MUCH much better, they could probabily just convert that from TS since it's a simple static 3D model. Comparing this job to making better passengers doesn't make any sense.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
  20. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    I'm very sorry but I really have to laugh when you say the passengers look good. They look awful compared to every game with people in it on my PS4. Like you said I'm more interested in the passengers that is correct. But I'm sure more people care about how the passengers look than some prop on a runway somewhere.
     
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  21. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Laugh all you want, they are the best of any train simulator right now (even the famous TSW Killer, SimRail hasn't shown any passengers yet), and considering they are not an integral part of gameplay like for example in Bus Simulator are more than adequate IMO. But to each their own
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
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  22. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    I'm not laughing with TSW or DGT. I'm just laughing with the idea that the passengers would look ok. It was the first thing that I noticed when playing the game But I'm ok with it as it is a train simulator.But if a props look becomes a topic than everything else can become a topic as well. Passengers are props as well and they are all over the place. There is moren important stuff to improve than that one plane. The passengers are just an example.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
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  23. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    We have trees coming through the locomotive window frames and you are complaining about a plane viewed from 1/2 mile away engines being slightly in the wrong place?

    On my list of "would be nice if they fixed this" I dont think this would make my top 100 let alone making it on to my "must have fixes" list.
     
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  24. Rybnicki

    Rybnicki Active Member

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    Yes it has. They walk, fairly smoothly, and board the train rather than spawning.
     
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  25. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Wait really? I followed it pretty closely but I haven't seen that. Could you point me towards it?
     
  26. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    As a train and plane fanatic, it would be nice to have a more realistic looking aeroplane in the game. Seeing it up close, it looks like one of the Wright Brother’s early failures. The angle of the plane coming into land seemed wrong too, pointing down at the nose too much instead of the nose being a bit higher or at least level.

    That said, I appreciate this is Train Sim World and not Plane Sim World and other priorities exist.
     
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  27. Rybnicki

    Rybnicki Active Member

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    Can only point you at the demo to be honest, I am going on what I saw myself - tho in the off-topic section there's a long thread on Simrail with some videos attached.
     
  28. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Oooh I see. I haven't seen much of the demo yet, I'm sorry then, I should have checked before.
     
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  29. Rybnicki

    Rybnicki Active Member

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    No harm, it only came out yesterday!
     
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  30. 59321747

    59321747 Active Member

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    Still found in the details, there are always careful players criticizing other parts of DTG modeling.
    In fact, I hope DTG can improve the characters and vehicles, especially the unnaturalness of vehicles when cornering. This city is also a place that needs improvement.
     
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  31. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The passenger in simrail are frankly better than the tsw passengers. They have more life to them and look better. Perhaps dtg can learn a thing or two from that
     
  32. jamesbaby286

    jamesbaby286 Well-Known Member

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    I just hoped to shed some light on how its inaccuracies put it far below the standard of every other TSW2 3D asset and it should be improved given the frequency the airliner keeps on being used, that we are getting very close to it now, and how rail lines next to airports are common.

    TSW2s people already look like real people. Sure not photorealistic, but for videogame people they do a decent job of settling in a place where the uncanny valley doesn't make them uncomfortable to look at. Yes there could be some subjective polishing to improve them. The method Simrail choose also has its limitations making them look worse in my opinion, especially in the eyes, animation skeleton, plasticine hair, variety restrictions, and textures.

    TSW2s airliner does not currently look like a real airliner. I can't think of another asset in TSW2 that looks less like the real thing it is trying to represent. Bits aren't in the right places, or the right size, and the shapes aren't correct. It's not even something that can be excused as a low poly optimisation.

    As I said before; worst offender is the engines being in a totally unrealistic place. It's noticeable from quite a distance, and the problem will only be amplified we can now get really close. Changing engine placement alone would make the most significant difference and if that is all that can be managed that would do a lot.

    20211004085524_1.jpg
    an-airbus-a330-243-taxiing-along-the-runway-view-from-the-front-of-KJMMXD.jpg


    20211004090036_1.jpg

    Absolutely none of this is strictly necessary to influence my purchase of a route or anything. Though it does effect my immersion greatly every time I see the airliner.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2021
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  33. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    I already sent a mail to Gatwick Airport to complain their planes don't look like the planes in Train Sim World and demanded they change them so they resemble the planes in the game. Problem solved I guess
     
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  34. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, if they just took the existing model and moved the engines along the wings to a more sensible position, I'd probably never think about this again. It's fairly baffling that people who take such an interest in the intricacies of engineering can be satisfied with this bizarre model.
     
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  35. jamesbaby286

    jamesbaby286 Well-Known Member

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    I submitted my detailed list of specific improvements through dovetails portal and received an incredibly swift response. I am impressed.

    I am happy with the response, and while I am sure that it is too late for Brighton to be released with a different plane model; I'm glad to have brought this topic to the table for the communities discussion, DTGs review, and hopefully a new airliner model in the future.

    Screenshot 2021-10-05 055608.png
     
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  36. Tay95

    Tay95 Well-Known Member

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    I'm just happy to have a plane looking plane which flies into Gatwick!
     
  37. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    I definitely agree that DTG should of made a better plane model for TSW2, its kind of sad that the plane models on TS1 are more accurate than the plane models on TSW2.

    Hell, even SCS does their trains somewhat accurate despite making a truck sim.
    american-truck-simulator-new-mexico-dlc-pc-cd-key-1.jpg unnamed.jpg

    However the actual importance of this fix is very low, since it really isn't a game breaking issue, just a visual annoyance....
     
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