Point Machines In Train Sim World 2

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by PBrogaard, Aug 3, 2021.

  1. PBrogaard

    PBrogaard Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2018
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    116
    Dear forum,

    The following review of the point machines in Train Sim World 2 is something I have been wanting to post for some time, as I would like to offer some suggestions for improved realism and immersion for existing and/or future routes. Several existing routes seem to copy the same mistakes throughout the game. I have seen incorrect use of point machines in places, where it is quite obvious that another point machine or number of such should have been used, even in the most recent releases of the game.

    Let me start off clarifying that I do realise the many constraints DTG face when building route assets (by this I mean 3D objects); development time, game performance, implementing systems not yet in the core, licenses etc. This is not meant to be negatively criticizing the work put into the routes, but instead I hope this post is in some way can give valuable feedback pointing out the difference between the real railway infrastructure and the ones portrayed in TSW 2. I must be honest though that in TSW 2, I personally find driving over a point and crossing, that is held in place by a single point machine with nothing but a single piece of iron, between the blades and the point machine with 320 km/h on the LGV somewhat ridiculous and not realistic by any means. My biggest concern is that a correct use of point machines is deemed too performance demanding and that the game hence will not be improved in this regard.

    If you read something where I am mistaken or wrong, please feel free to reply and correct me.

    Please, if you find my points (pun intended) in this post worth highlighting or simply if you think this has been informative do not hesitate to give it a like, it is much appreciated.

    My suggestion for DTG and the development of TSW 2 is, that point and crossing across all routes are reviewed and reworked in order to properly model the realistic point machines used for each point and crossing as they would be in real life, for the game to be the realistic train simulator that it intends to be. I believe this is a very big task, but I believe it will improve the game/gameplay as currently it is an overly simplistic model for points and crossings rather than the more realistic (are more equipped) counter parts in real life. As a minimum, I hope that for high-speed lines the use of single point machines will be changed to model the realistic layout of points and crossings for that kind of infrastructure.

    The routes I have reviewed are: Great Western Express, Main Spessart Bahn, LGV Méditerranée, Hauptstrecke Hamburg - Lübeck, Rhein-Ruhr Osten, Ruhr-Sieg Nord and East Coastway.

    A little background on point machines, how and why
    In any points and crossings or switch/turnout if you prefer, the point works either with a lever for manual setting or a point machine that mechanically controls the position of the blades or switch rails. Furthermore, a point machine also registers and tells the interlocking what direction the point is set to, as wells as whether the point is set correctly and has control and is locked in that position. All this is normally done via one or more rods or gliders connecting the actuators, struts, point machine(s) etc. with the blades themselves. While each of these have their own very specific technical terms, I will in this post refer to them as control rods altogether for simplicity. There are countless types and variants of these depending on the route, the track, the country, the technology of the time, producers etc., but the concept is the same.

    The point machine ensures that the point can be set to any given track in that point and crossing as well as holding the blades or rails securely in place so that a train does not derail over it or drive in one direction with one wheel set and the other direction with another wheel set. The forces applied on the blades by the train driving over them are enormous, and will depend on the train’s speed and axle load etc. The length of the movable blades as well as the force by which the train applies through both point blades and the point frog mean that for longer points a single point machine cannot securely hold them in place. Therefore, one or more set of point machines or simply just locks or rods, working together, are built in to safely control the blades. On a very high speed track, the frog is movable (also called swingnose crossing) so that there is no gap at the crossing when a train drives through in any direction.

    The Train Sim World 2 point machines versus real life ones
    Through German routes and the LGV Méditerranée in Train Sim World 2, the point machines (that are not the manual lever points) are all the same. They look like this:

    1.jpg

    This point machine is from what I can gather a Siemens S 700 K or C point machine. This is assumed.

    On the Great Western Express and East Coastway you will find these two powered types:
    2.jpg
    3.jpg

    Which presumably is an Alstom HW type point machine and below a clamplock type (again, assumed).

    These are currently the three point machine assets that are modelled in the game, and there is always exactly one point machine per point and no other bars or rods than is shown here.

    To be continued…
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2021
    • Like Like x 5
  2. PBrogaard

    PBrogaard Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2018
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    116
    Let us compare a piece of track near Düren, where the point and crossing in real life is equipped with either one or several point machines and several control rods to ensure safe passage at the point tip and the middle of the blades. The first picture is a screenshot from TSW 2 taken towards Düren. The second picture of the same point and crossing on the right is from a Driver’s eye video from Youtube, but in the opposite direction.

    4.jpg
    5.jpg

    In this case, instead of a single Siemens S 700 K (which is by the way flowing in the air), the equipment modelled should have been either one or more point machines (probably just one) of what looks like another type than Siemens S 700 K, as well as the quite visual control rods and bars, that are linked between the tip and middle of the blades. They conjugate in the two pipes along the track and are fastened to the sleepers.

    Another example is here at Hamburg Wandsbek:

    6.jpg

    7.jpg
    Here it is clearer that a single point machine is used and that it is not the same type as modelled in the game.

    To be continued…
     
    • Like Like x 4
  3. PBrogaard

    PBrogaard Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2018
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    116
    For the French high-speed route, if we compare a main line point and crossing at Avignon in TSW 2 versus a Driver’s eye video from Youtube. We firstly notice just how long a point and crossing for such high speeds must be. The two pictures below are from TSW 2 showing the tip end as well as the point frog. Imagine that the entire length of the blades have to be controlled and secured, and then look at the single point machine and connecting bar in the TSW 2 screenshot.
    8.jpg
    9.jpg

    Here are what it looks like from the other direction in real life. Notice the amount of rods, locks, clamps, etc. on both the point blades as well as the movable frog. These I assume are Vossloh Cogifer MCEM91.

    10.jpg

    11.jpg
    Driving past these in TSW 2 feel rather empty compared to the amount of interlocking and track equipment that is installed in reality for such track. Also note that the guard rails are bigger in real life.

    To be continued…
     
    • Like Like x 4
  4. PBrogaard

    PBrogaard Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2018
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    116
    For the British routes, here we see that in real life both clamplocks (first picture) and HW points (second picture) have connecting rods and such to control the blades.
    12.jpg

    13.jpg
    The clamplocks and HW point machines are both placed in different types of track (both conventional and high speed) and I have for this review not examined whether they are correctly in place in TSW 2. However if we compare the HST portion of the tracks in TSW 2, high speed points and crossings should look like the second picture shown below, just outside of Reading, with in-bearer clamplocks and so called Alstom Hy-drive (or similar, it is an assumption) rods etc. because of the length. The first example is from TSW 2 with clamplocks and nothing else:
    14.jpg

    15.jpg

    Summary

    Should anyone like to add to the list for example the US routes that I have not covered, or if you have any other suggestions, please leave a comment.

    My intent with this post is as mentioned at the beginning, to encourage DTG to improve their way of modelling points and crossings with regards to correct type and extent. However, as I am aware this could be an unfeasibly huge task for the preservation crew, who are already doing great work on many other aspects, I would like to ask that at least high speed lines are taken into more consideration when it comes to equipping points and crossings to how they are in real life as shown in the pictures above. As a rule of thumb, you should not see a point and crossing with a single point machine and no extra control rods in any main line track.

    Thank you for taking your time to read this, if you have any questions, let me know.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  5. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    2,488
    Likes Received:
    3,270
    Would be nice, but should it have a high priority?
     
    • Like Like x 5
  6. PBrogaard

    PBrogaard Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2018
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    116
    Hi Rudolf.
    I do not think so. If this was to be implemented in some way, I think improving the high speed points and crossings for future content would be very fine indeed. If another LGV route or similiar high speed is developed in the future and the same single point machine is put in P&Cs, that would not destroy the game at all. But it would definetly not be impressive.

    Someone mentioned a discussion about the catenary being wrong on I think the LGV. I have not read that yet, but it is great to see a flair for detail. Whether or not it makes it into the game, well, we agree that there are other things more important.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  7. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,102
    Likes Received:
    2,124
    Amongst the many cool things about playing this game is the fact that I have learned so much about railroading - from the game itself as well as from people who post on this forum.

    Movable frogs! So cool ….

    I’m sure it would be very time consuming to retrofit this onto preserved collection routes and likely displace some other improvement which these routes might need more, but I would love to see this modeled in the future.

    Thanks for the education!
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page