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[poll] Collectibles!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by pschlik, Jan 16, 2018.

  1. pschlik

    pschlik Well-Known Member

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    I wanted to gather some numbers on how many of y'all care about collectibles to hopefully give DTG some insight on whether or not to continue using (or maybe wasting) time putting in all these random objects.

    Straw poll this time so I can get numbers from beyond this forum. General idea is on what you would think of a route that was totally normal but didn't have collectibles. Would you not even notice, or would that be worthy of a downvote on Steam?
     
  2. Jef-F

    Jef-F Active Member

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    Absolutely not interested and continue to wonder why someone decided to invest their time into this... feature.
     
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  3. Daniel Bloch

    Daniel Bloch Well-Known Member

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    Useless, same as the score system. Nobody needs that nonsense, better invest the time in QA or bugfixing.
     
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  4. PlatChap

    PlatChap Active Member

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    I am somewhat of a completionist so I took to the task of getting all the collectibles. I picked up a random service and started at Cumberland yard and worked my way north along the route. I got to Hyndman and then gave up on this.

    It got tedious having to stop the train so frequently so I could get off and go get the collectible, especially the ones on the mainline where you would never naturally stop unless in an emergency. There is no incentive to the player to complete this and it is essentially busy work.

    Bottom line; add better incentive or remove it.
     
  5. pschlik

    pschlik Well-Known Member

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    An just as a heads up, Matt is really committed to keeping collectibles going and seemed almost shocked that I brought this up...so don't expect them to go anywhere. The official argument is that "if you don't like them, don't look for them" though I'm not trying to imply anyone doesn't like them (note the lack of an "I dislike collectibles and they are bringing routes down with them" option)...I'm more implying that people think they are not a vital part of the experience.
     
  6. PlatChap

    PlatChap Active Member

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    Hmm, interesting. I certainly don't think they detract from the game but they also don't add anything to it either.
     
  7. davejc64

    davejc64 Active Member

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    If you don't want them just don't bother collecting them.
     
  8. Matto140

    Matto140 Active Member

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    This collectibles items are good feature! I gathered them all three times on CSX HH mostly at free walk mode.
    I think that they can be used for some kind of "SAFETY FIRST" scenario in whitch your objective is to fix overturned markers, place the posters and signs, at certain piece of route. The hard hats can by use as object at scenario start quest "go and take a protective helmet"
     
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  9. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

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    From my point of view they're a minor matter. It can give you something to do if you're hanging around a station waiting for a train but I'm not going to get too worried about them. I think the change in GWE & RT(?) to reduce the number and I believe, mostly, to have them located on stations was a big improvement.
     
  10. Shukal

    Shukal Well-Known Member

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    I enjoy collecting them but I wouldn't really care if a route didn't have them. Also I felt that posters in CSX were a bit out of place.

    SamYeager270 I agree with that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
  11. TrainSim-Martin

    TrainSim-Martin Staff Member

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    Hey folks,

    Thanks for the feedback - you can be sure the Dev team will see these thoughts. I've been thinking maybe collecting different things (e.g. model trains) would make this a bit more fun, but I really like the idea of pulling them into a special 'safety course' scenario...

    Lets get as many ideas as possible down on the table :)

    Cheers,
    Martin
     
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  12. Matto140

    Matto140 Active Member

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    The train consist like this one will be great for such 'safety course' scenario.
     
  13. pschlik

    pschlik Well-Known Member

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    I think collectibles, regardless of how they are implemented, should have some cool and interesting little reward for getting them. As mentioned by others, they lack purpose and incentive, both of which could be there.

    After CSX, there have been no rewards, not even achievements, for getting all the collectibles. That kind of thing is sending across a message that DTG doesn't care enough about collectibles or rewarding collectors to do something as small as adding in another achievement. They might be such low work and effort to be pointless to remove, but because of that, they can also become pointless to add because no work is being put in to them. The easy approach isn't really the right one, and the results show that.

    As for rewards beyond achievements, something like concept art or 3D model viewers (so you can get in the whole 'model train' idea by "collecting X amount of Z to view a 3D model of locomotive Y"). Little things like that aren't so important to force people to find collectibles, but are important enough to be motivating and satisfying to find for those who do care.
     
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  14. Corvan

    Corvan Well-Known Member

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    Ah, you start throwing in concept art or 3D model viewers as rewards for collecting and you're gaining my interest.
     
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  15. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    You can walk the route.
     
  16. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    I enjoy hunting for the collectibles. It gives a chance to explore the route at the same you find rewards along the way. What I think is once you find all the collectibles that it should unlock something. Maybe with that kind of incentive people would not mind finding everything along the route.
     
  17. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    I was really sort of surprised to see them in a simulator and thought what a waste of time. For some reason on CSX, I found one in the yard and though what the heck and started to roam around and collect them. Was pleased that I did because it got me to slow down and really see the detail put into the simulation... to walk past a remote power box for some signals and hear the electrical hum of the transformer in a remote location really blew me away.

    So while there might be some nits with the simulation, the attention to detail in the systems, stations and such bode well as they iron out the problems. So I do hope they continue with the collectibles so I have an incentive to explore the well detailed world.
     
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  18. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    If they give some folks a reason to live, that's fine with me: just as long as they don't interfere with running simulated trains and our dear developers don't let them get in the way of fixing what needs fixing and creating new routes, scenarios, and sessions.
     
  19. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    I had a bad accident in 2016 which left me unable to do much. So today I put effort in completing my remaining collectables in GWE and Rapid Transit today.
     
  20. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, I don’t get it. This is meant to be a simulator, and by our very nature the players are after realism (note...something not achieveable on an Xbox). Collectibles are a pointless gimmick. Take the man hours expanded on them and invest them where it counts. For example, if one single second was spent adding collectibles to NEC, knowing that the DLC was to be released half finished, then that is pi** poor.

    I’m pretty new to Train Sims having only recently bought a desktop but have spent well over £300 in the last month or so on TS2018 & TSW. TSW is good, but really should be much better. It feels a bit like a rudderless ship, and it’s time to prioritise the really important stuff i.e. the stuff that is going to make or break the franchise. Stop trying to build a dream house on crappy foundations.

    Collectibles are a novelty that, if you really must add them, should only be considered when the rest of the sim is faultless.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
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  21. SimonM719

    SimonM719 Member

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    I agree... not important at all and very "Arcadish", not a SIM thing at all? but then I don't look for them either!
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
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  22. ProfCreeptonius

    ProfCreeptonius Well-Known Member

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    Well I wouldn't eliminate collectibles so quickly
    I think they're a fair addition to the game and can cure boredom, Like stopping at a station you really have nothing to do besides stare at a stationary screen. Perhaps walking out then to check for collectibles would be a nice idea.
    But the community would need something to motivate us to collect them.
    I was thinking about this for a while. We could have certain scenarios, services or train consists unlock upon acquiring achievements. A bad example would be to let the HST unlock after the player has done 5 stops with a 166 (something like that, you get the idea). One could use these achievements to motivate people to actually drive properly and not goof around 24/7.
    But you really don't need to invest too much time into collectibles. Make a low-quality texture, spread them across, and nobody will mind. I think the major problem behind collectibles isn't their existence, it is the time invested that could've been used for the development of stuff that really matters, for instance the correct implementation of PZB on RT.
    To summarize: Nice idea, don't overkill, use the time on content that matters.

    -ProfCreeptonius

    PS: No other simulator has collectibles, so it's a nice original idea too :D
     
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  23. Corvan

    Corvan Well-Known Member

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    The last thing a train simulator needs is a playwall \ grind component. A lot of us play simulators to get away from that kind of nonsense.

    Mastering trains, routes and timetables can be engaging and time consuming enough without adding a grind in there.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
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  24. pschlik

    pschlik Well-Known Member

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    Gameplay unlocks will never be in TSW, so let's stop that train of thought right now.

    Edit: Great, nobody listens.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
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  25. Kuu Lightwing

    Kuu Lightwing Active Member

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    My main issue with collectibles is that looking for them kinda conflicts with the gameplay itself in many cases. CSX HH is the main offender - it pretty much requires you to go into emergency every time you see a shiny. With stopping services - it's a bit better, but for example with RT, if you leave the cab, train applies the emergency brakes if you have Sifa enabled, and normally you have like a minute to search for things, or you'll be late. Plus trains often don't stop at every station. When I decided to collect everything on GWE I grabbed a Class 66 service and stopped at every station myself. So, I like the idea, but it basically needs some sort of a free roam mode to go along with them.

    On a side note, I don't like the current score implementation. It's just some arbitrary big number that pretty much tells me nothing about how well I was driving the service or a scenario. I think TS1 career does it better, although it might be a touch too punitive - a slight wheel sleep or overspeed might take away 10+% of your total score in no time. Oh, and I completed a scenario today, but at the end it just took away all my points for no reason. :(
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
  26. ProfCreeptonius

    ProfCreeptonius Well-Known Member

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    I know the idea was sketch. But still, if you're gonna have collectibles, give me something for collecting it - or else I won't

    Kuu Lightwing Yeah, they need to put them in sensible spots...
     
  27. Corvan

    Corvan Well-Known Member

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    At least on GWE, Rapid Transit and NEC you can ride as a passenger between stations.
     
  28. Kuu Lightwing

    Kuu Lightwing Active Member

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    Yea, but only on NEC I can expect the next train to take me where I want to go next, and to come in less than 30 minutes.
     
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  29. Kuu Lightwing

    Kuu Lightwing Active Member

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    Also, for an idea what rewards to offer for collectibles - I'd say the most sensible thing is special liveries. 3D model viewer is kinda meh, in my opinion, but some cosmetic reward that you could use during the game itself would be perfect. So, special liveries I think is the bet you could think of. They also shouldn't take too much time to implement, so they won't take too much time off the development itself.

    But the main thing - is to make collecting them less conflicting with playing the game itself.
     
  30. Shukal

    Shukal Well-Known Member

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    If they are real liveries they are still problematic though. And lots of people don't want fictional liveries. We actually had a discussion with Matt on discord about this once.
     
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  31. Trainmania100

    Trainmania100 Active Member

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    As far as I'm aware there is no reward for getting them? Guess the walking moves me up the leaderboard on Xbox though but quite big area to search for things so don't have time
     
  32. ProfCreeptonius

    ProfCreeptonius Well-Known Member

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    Hello!

    This discussion has doubled in size since my last post :o
    I'll break the party and add a halfway objective opinion into the mix. It's really really hard to satisfy a simulation community in terms of collectibles.
    Some will claim that they don't want a 'playwall' and yet cry that there is no reward for collecting them
    Some will claim that the collectibles aren't useful and then complain that there is too little variety in the simulator
    Some just will not care.
    Such a situation happened above: Unlocking liveries without a playwall. Absolutely logical argument. Or say Simulators shouldn't have a crediting system. Yet alot of them do... Collectibles are worthless But so many collect them...
    I'm not disagreeing with all of you, I'm just showing potential complaints to various positions - and where there is complaint potential people will complain.
    Long story short there will always be complaining and (un-)fortunately both sides are right and wrong in some respect and there will always be negative opinions.
    I think the most sensible course of action would be to just wait out the results of the poll and then continue based on that. Say I wanted to be annoying, I could disagree with every single position and still justify my arguments.
    I don't think there's much to discuss, the poll will be clear (it seems to be so...) and the devs can then decide what is best to do.
    To satisfy all, is not possible, or at least ridiculously hard.

    Cheers,
    Prof
     
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  33. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    I enjoy finding the collectibles it gets you exploring the route and seeing what is around you when you are to busy driving a train and do not have time to look around.

    It would be great if the collectibles actually opened up another loco or even rolling stock. Or bonus even open a section of track extending the route. Possibly even unlocking more challenging scenario's.
     
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  34. Jef-F

    Jef-F Active Member

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    I strongly object. Locking content away from those who don't give a damn about collectibles to provide others with a "sense of pride and accomplishment"? I doubt DTG wants to find themselves in the same position as EA with this collectibles.
     
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  35. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    That's just it if the collectibles meant something everyone would care and would take the time to search for them.
     
  36. Jef-F

    Jef-F Active Member

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    Everyone is a bit too strong here - some people (myself included) will not ever do such stupid thing as walking entire route in search for some meaningless things to access content that is already there. We'll just find a patch to unlock it either way. You like to comb the route in search for these items? Fine, you do you, I don't object collectibles as long as they don't interfere with my gameplay and don't force me to do things I don't want to.
     
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  37. pschlik

    pschlik Well-Known Member

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    Like I said, actual content important to gameplay is not going to be locked behind anything ever in TSW. (Also as I said, STOP SUGGESTING THAT! IT IS A WASTE OF TIME TO DO SO!) That's Matt's philosophy and that's final. Forcing people to do X Y Z in order to unlock A B C might sound completely logical, but you must realize that there are people who want to do all A B and C but entirely hate X Y Z, and then the people who do like X Y Z don't care about the unlock of A B and C because those 3 aren't what they care about. So, in the end, nobody gets any more satisfaction out of unlocks than if everything was there from the start. It's all an illusion, really, that has no place in a simulator, where the choice to collect or not collect, to drive the HST or the 166, to be in Germany or America...are all choices up to you, with no unlocks, no gimmicks, that force your path. FREEDOM people, freedom.
     
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  38. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Well no one is forcing you or anyone else to look for the collectibles, and they do not interfere with the game play.
     
  39. Jef-F

    Jef-F Active Member

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    Now they don't, so I'm content with things as they are. They would though if some content will be locked behind grind-wall as you suggested above. pschlik summarized it quite well.
     
  40. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    You’re right, no one is. Critically, however, man hours are being wasted on a pointless gimmick which has no place in a proper sim. There were no ‘collectibles’ in TS, did anybody miss them? I’ve don’t recall seeing threads on the TS forums with people demanding collectibles be added to the game. It feels like DTG are trying to dumb-down TSW - collectibles, leaving the likes of AWS etc. off by default for people who can’t be bothered to invest a tiny amount of time to read a manual. It’s sad to think it’s the Xbox influence that’s leading this thinking, but I fear that it is.

    IMHO the team have far bigger fish to fry...if and only if they get the sim bug free, and with all the planned features working as advertised, then if you really must add them in for those that like the gimmicks go for it. Until then, please just stop it! It’s called Train Sim World, not GTA V. You can get collectibles on console games to your hearts content, please leave it out of PC based sims.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
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  41. Corvan

    Corvan Well-Known Member

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    I would rather spend my time driving trains than wasting my time searching for collectables to enable me to drive the trains I already purchased.
     
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  42. Shukal

    Shukal Well-Known Member

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    People can't even figure out how to open the doors and constantly ask about it on the forums. If safety systems were turned on by default this would be so much worse.
     
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  43. Daniel Bloch

    Daniel Bloch Well-Known Member

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    I agree, please never need to collect stuff to unlock locos or whatever. Then I am out off TSW. Its a trains sim no pokemon game!

    The way it is now is ok, if you want to collect them do it.
    If you don't care like me then ignore them.
     
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  44. Rudolf

    Rudolf Active Member

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    I like them. It gives a purpose to walk along the tracks and have a close look at all places in the route. At the same time it is annoying if you miss only a few of them ...
     
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  45. KennethT

    KennethT New Member

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    Yeah, no interest in collectibles. Just distracts from the purpose of a train simulator in my view. Hoggers dont walk around picking up shovels and attaching posters.
     
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  46. MarkusLiberty

    MarkusLiberty Member

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    I doubt they spend a lot of time on these collectibles, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. They already have the blueprint for setting them up, and they tend to re-use the same models for each route, so it's probably just a matter of casually placing them as they do the world building.

    I hope they keep them, we've had a lot of fun looking for them and helping each other out on the TSW Discord server
     
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