Poll Do You Think Systems Simulation , Physics Etc In Being Held Back By Last Gen Consoles

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by flghttrainsm#6320, Nov 5, 2021.

?
  1. Yes

    49 vote(s)
    56.3%
  2. No

    37 vote(s)
    42.5%
  3. Other comment below

    1 vote(s)
    1.1%
  1. flghttrainsm#6320

    flghttrainsm#6320 Member

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    It's been a couple of years and in my opinion I think the pc version is being held back in scope , route density lod , systems simulation , physics simulation , especially by last gen consoles
    What you guys think , I have no hate towards last gen consoles I have an Xbox one and a 360
    Just wanted to get everyones point view thread
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2021
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  2. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    Don’t hate on consoles . The majority of dtg’s profit comes from consoles . The pc version of every game is going to be better , and not so good on consoles . That’s just the way that video games and simulators work . But what is your suggestion anyway ?
     
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  3. flghttrainsm#6320

    flghttrainsm#6320 Member

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    I'm not hating on consoles I'm asking everyone's opinion its a poll , ,I have an Xbox one too aswell as a pc , my point being as good as what the last gen consoles can do an 8 core jaguar CPU can not handle heavy physics , spark simulation , steam simulation , more simulated functions , higher route density and better draw distances , also the memory limitations the sim is constructed from the lowest common denominator the xbox one , the only thing you get on pc and next gen is an increase In visual fidelity , my suggestion would be a more expensive pro version of tsw2 same engine software for pc and next gen with more realistic physics , simulated systems , like overheating breaks , engine you can break , other sims like flightsim have it. and a the causal stuff removed apart from being able to traverse the world get in and off the trains , keep the normal version for those aren't aren't that bothered about simulation
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2021
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  4. Cloadmcally

    Cloadmcally Active Member

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    The answer is complicated. It's no secret last gen consoles are dated, and struggle to keep up with the progress of the game. However this poll is disingenuous for a few reasons:
    1) Even consoles users are aware that this is the case, but that doesn't mean their player experience is worth less.
    2) New consoles are very capable machines, more capable than many PCs.
    3) New consoles are hard to come by, at consumer friendly prices.
    4) If DTG were to ignore all performance constraints (even the ones set by modest PCs) they would essentially have a handful of customers. Sure they could produce a masterpiece, but they would go out of business in a few weeks.

    The thing is, technology tends to stimulate innovation. If DTG were to simply produce a game that ran on a potato, we wouldn't have routes like London commuter or Hamburg. Instead they have to find solutions to improve performance, while delivering a better overall product. It's true that in a few years support for old gen consoles will have to be dropped, but that doesn't mean that we are limited by consoles, it means that DTG can sell their product to a large enough customer base, to continue improving the game.
     
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  5. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    PC isn't being held back by consoles though.
    You can pick and choose settings such as graphics etc on PC whereas those of us on consoles are restricted to the default (except being able to turn 4K off in the menu). On PC you also have access to files to change settings and unlock certain things (FGW unlock for GWE).
     
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  6. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    The only noticeable issues are graphics on older consoles (which are very ugly, not that TSW was pretty to begin with), and the amount of stock able to be loaded. But as for physics, there is likely little effect. DTG aren't using the older consoles to their potential - Gran Turismo Sport, which is also a very complex game that also has to deal with ray tracing, a much higher resolution and 35-car racing, uses not much more than 60% of the PS4's system resources. Optimisation is DTG's friend here. The PS5 and Xbox Series X, however, are absolutely not the issue here. When first announced, the Series X (and therefore the PS5 as well) outperformed more than 90% of PCs used for Steam, and therefore the PCs of most Train Sim World players. The number is likely still that high. The Series S is a strange console, because it can't play 4K Xbox One X content, but the extra RAM is useful for many games. The console is a bit of a dud and by the latter half of this console generation will limit gaming in general, but even then TSW in its current form runs fine on it. Again, a bit of optimisation will make these three consoles run TSW2 even better.
     
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  7. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I think the biggest issue here owning both one x and pc is that the you're asking granny and the strong child to hold the weight of the world (or a small piece on their shoulders). Young pc child has a good crack at it, stumbles occasionally but will lift you into that place, octogenarian granny console knows full well what's expected but she's frail, weak, drops her frame and had to get back up.

    Scaleability is missing and we won't see it this year perhaps next . Take most pc games and there's more settings to tweak to get your perfect experience. I'm sure I'm not the only one that's waded through content manager in Assetto corsa working out what's what, what happens when I click this , or flight sim wondering what LOD I can get away with at ground level.

    We need to give granny the opportunity to wear her old clothes, take her frame and potter along with her small level of draw distance and slow pace and equally give her the pc the chance to leg it at full speed.
     
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  8. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    I don't think consoles are holding PCs back in the physics department. DTG was never all out on physics. The original TS has very basic system simulations (like brake pipe pressure being uniform throughout the train). And while TSW with simugraph is a lots better, it is still fairly light on the amount of systems and the dept they are simulated to. One example is thermal model, which doesn't exists and you're not able to overheat the train, or fade your brakes, no matter what you do.

    But this limitations is by design, as DTG has chosen to not to spend resources on stuff which the vast majority of players will never experience. On the general train physics, the resources required scales with the lengths of trains. So the limitations of older consoles come in play on routes with longer consists (Sand Patch), but there PC already have longer consists than consoles. So PC isn't held back here.

    Also, one thing to keep in mind is that also on PC DTG wants the game to be accessible to as wide audience as possible, so they also need to scale the game with having the minimal requirements in mind.

    What I think is holding TSW back on PC is DTGs unwillingness to expose some of the settings people are tweaking in their .ini (like draw distances), in regular graphics menu.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2021
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  9. LWDAdnane

    LWDAdnane Active Member

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    It's a complicated one. I'll just be doing no more than echoing what's already said for the half time, but my answer is no and yes. I would imagine that we'd probably have longer routes with more assets in general, and I believe that as there would only be one platform to focus on, development would have been happening possibly 2/3 times faster at least, than what we currently have now. However, at the same time, it begs the question of "would DTG have made enough money for that development?". It's no secret that the majority of the playerbase is on console, and so that's where the majority of income is made. It's a bit frustrating from a PC consumer perspective (I speak for myself personally, not all PC users), but I do get it.

    As also has been said, TSW2 is very poorly optimised in general. We should all be getting a lot more imo, even on last gen consoles. If there was some more focus on that, I think we'd all be surprised at how much more juice would probably be squeezed out of the last gen consoles. There has been some good examples of what's been done with them, such as with Gran Turismo, as Doomotron pointed out. Seeing that kind of makes you think about the potential of these consoles.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2021
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  10. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    To put it simply, I honestly don't think last-gen are holding back PC. I mean after-all, TSW 2 is a game designed to work across multiple platforms. Obviously, high-end PCs are going to have all the bells and whistles in comparison to last-gen consoles, but I think if it was a serious problem of being held back, I'm sure DTG wouldn't have continued or even started on console. As a console player, TSW is my favourite game, so I'm glad I can play it on there, despite it not being the same level as a high-end PC.

    Just to add, PC players have Train Simulator (TS2022) unlike console players, so issues raised like this debate wouldn't even exist. Thus, returning to TSW 2, there has to be some compromise so that all players across all platforms get to experience this awesome game.
     
  11. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    I doubt the systems and physics would be any better if they had all the processing power in the world. They're simulating what they have the time and will to simulate, and that's not where any limits are being hit. You think it was the processing power of consoles that made Rivet set up their 150 as though it was an EMU? Or that DTG would bother to more accurately simulate every aspect of their locos if it weren't for lowly console players?
     

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