Poll In Light Of London Commuter Issues

Discussion in 'PlayStation Discussion' started by Sheldon1000, Oct 8, 2021.

  1. Sheldon1000

    Sheldon1000 Well-Known Member

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    Quick poll to gauge if customers are starting to feel like we are unnoficially the companies beta testers as its clear that new routes aren't tested (at least on consoles) before release. The game breaking bugs literally are found immediately on playing the game. Perhaps we should be paid a wage from DTG for our new role within the company?
     
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  2. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    Does Sony not have a say in DTG quality issues and problems? I mean all this can’t be doing their brand image much good. I know Sony themselves aren’t perfect either but do they have the power to stop putting TSW2 on the PS platform if they feel
    TSW2 is too much negative effort to support?
     
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  3. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    And what would be achieved by Sony withdrawing TSW2?

    We then have no way to get any updates and will have wasted any money we spent.
     
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  4. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I said no, because Beta testers generally get listened to and fixes enacted once things are mentioned. Errors were highlighted on the first pictures being posted that are still not corrected (such as the lights in the doorways on the 387)
     
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  5. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    I’m not saying we as players would achieve anything. I’m looking at it from Sony’s point of view and they might just decide TSW2 is too much hassle for their brand image.

    In which case PlayStation players who have spent a lot of money on TSW2 would then need to worry.
     
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  6. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Because the PS5 debacle has cast them in such a great light...
     
  7. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    To be honest, I doubt Sony had even noticed. We are not a big player base and whenever I‘ve raised a ticket direct with Sony, I get a standard response and it gets completely ignored.

    If Sony did withdraw TSW2 then XBox and PC owners need to be worried as well, with DTG potentially losing a third of its sales.

    I don’t think it’s very likely though. DTG will put out a fix eventually, we‘ll all be happy to carry on playing. But it leaves a bitter taste.
     
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  8. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    Sony does not care. Sony will never redraw a game from PSN unless the developer tells their customers that Sony will issue refunds. Only then Sony will redraw a game from it's platform. If CDPR did not send out a message telling people to go get refunds from Sony they would never have removed Cyberpunk from the store.

    And I think this situation with Rush Hour is not even remote comparable to the Cyberpunk fiasco.
     
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  9. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    I couldn’t agree more, like I said Sony aren’t perfect either but the question still needed to be asked. I mean Sony are a massive world wide company and despite TSW2 being a niche game it’s still a game they are allowing to use their platform with all these quite possibly none beta tested faults and quality issues

    Some bod working for Sony who works in managing their brand image might just advise the top executives to ditch TSW2 because it’s having too much of a negative image on the Sony brand

    Others have said Sony don’t care which might well be the case but you can never be sure. Personally from my own point of view I’d hope that would never happen
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2021
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  10. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Much of Sony's turnover is related to sales and support of the PS. If the PS failed Sony will fail...
     
  11. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    True but would the loss of one troublesome game that could in their view or rather the view of whoever’s job it is to look after the brand image which in their view casts them in a bad light make the PlayStation fail?
     
  12. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, didn't mean to infer that the miniscule sales of DTG would impact Sony's bottom line... More that the stupidity of the PS5 release may push people elsewhere (not that the competition is spotless though)
     
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  13. frank1116

    frank1116 Well-Known Member

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    Why not wait until there is a good product review, and purchase afterwards ? Obviously everbody in the forum knows what to expect from DTG. But it does not make sense to have endless discussions, if there is no awarness of need for action.
     
  14. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Ah, so the human race doesn't need to communicate unless there's going to be action? That kills half of the female population!
    (note irony)

    People like to talk and these forums are as much for the community to moan and talk amongst ourselves as they are to communicate with DTG (and maybe get results)
     
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  15. frank1116

    frank1116 Well-Known Member

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    no, sorry, it was meant that the discussion should lead to something. And it needs the awareness of DTG that there is need for action.
    This is what i am missing since i started TSW2 in march this year. Almost every ticket i have sent, ended somewhere.
    And i have requested just basic things like e.g. the ICE headlight. Thanks for the "irony note".
     
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  16. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Brandon said on the forum that the Beta Testers catch just about everything. That begs the question: why do so many elementary errors make it to release?
     
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  17. cmadonna1998

    cmadonna1998 Member

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    I certainly don't believe that DTG intends the players to be testers, but it certainly does happen. I know that they don't have the resources of a AAA studio, but they need to have a good look at their QA/testing methods. Based on what I am seeing across all forums, no platform had a smooth release, and there seem to be many issues that would have been noticed by even 5 minutes of testing. I play on PS4 and across all services I get unplayable frame rates in London-Victoria. I am not talking low, disappointing frame rates. I am talking unplayable because the controls aren't responsive because of the lag. Of course this also affects the sound and you basically can't look around or stand up and walk around because of how badly the game performs. This is something that anyone playing on a PS4 would have noticed, so how anyone thought it was acceptable to ship this I have no idea?

    I understand that PS4 is going to be obsolete sooner rather than later, but since they are charging the same amount on all consoles, a warning that this DLC would not perform well on PS4 would have been appreciated. Instead they take our money for something that is unplayable, and then tell us they'll fix it. Just be honest and say "We can no longer support last gen consoles with our new DLC." I would be disappointed but at least I would know to avoid them and stick to routes the PS4 can run.
     
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  18. photonmonkey

    photonmonkey Active Member

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    They just need to release the gen 8 versions with realistic timetables. Who in their right mind would expect the PS4 to be able to cope with 1200 odd services and that’s even apparently without the rush hour passenger volumes. Just give me a cut down service list so I can also use my other paid for DLC. As mentioned the frame rate on PS4 is terrible in Victoria and crashing the game in the station whilst walking around let alone driving a service.
     
  19. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Beta testers may well catch everything they're ASKED TO CATCH
    Doesn't mean that they go through the route with a toothcomb picking things up... Can't drive through all the stations with over 20 PIS screens and not think "that's a bit much"

    I think they're posted an early candidate version and told to try to break the train, but not look at whether it's accurate or not
     
  20. cmadonna1998

    cmadonna1998 Member

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    Agreed to all. I would gladly trade 1100 of those 1200, maybe even 1150 to get my layers enabled. 50 services plus layers is still over 2 an hour. Not nearly busy or accurate, but at this point I would trade those for playable.
     
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  21. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    That's not how it works.

    You can load 1 377 consist in memory for about the same as 200 377 consists.
    The problem comes when you want 377,387,66,166,43,313,09...
    So DTG worked out that you can have 377 and 387 in memory (repeated ad nauseum) but adding in a 375 makes the machine fall over
     
  22. photonmonkey

    photonmonkey Active Member

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    well that’s DTG’s excuse, so in which case why is the route crashing and the frame rate dreadful in Victoria with only 2 units in use. Does not make sense, having more trains on screen at any one time is going to impact performance regardless of whether it’s the same train or not surely. I get what is said about having more loco models loaded in memory but it still doesn’t add up.
     
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  23. cmadonna1998

    cmadonna1998 Member

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    Understood. I know next to nothing about game development so I had assumed that less trains on screen=less for the console to think about=better performance.
     
  24. dan5324

    dan5324 Active Member

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    Sony would generally only do something so drastic if the game was bricking consoles and causing damage. Saying that, constantly crashing to the dashboard can’t be doing the console much good.
     
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  25. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Scenery... If it's anything like TS1 the fact that theres a few thousand buildigns on one tile kinda of makes things go "wonky" and london termini are always going to be hard to populate. Also, from what I remember DTG have said recently they load ALL locos into memory at the beginning and then they run around until you get "into frame" to see them. Maybe I'm wrong on that but that's what it sounded like
     
  26. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Well, if you're right, what on earth is the point of beta testing in the first place? If there's no attempt to catch glaring errors in trains, sounds or scenery before release, it's left to the buyers to pick it apart. Which, of course, is what's happening anyway.
     
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  27. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    It does feel like we are beta testing. I was reading the topic explaining they have a thread to report issues with BML but I tried BML and I don't want to play it anymore until it's fixed. Why annoy myself when I can enjoy myself with other routes? I'll report issues when I get the version with the Rush Hour passengers. That's the version I bought. This is the beta without the Rush Hour passengers.
     
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  28. Sheldon1000

    Sheldon1000 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. I dont want to play it because of all the crashes and bugs.
     
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  29. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I don't know but the problem with any kind of testing is what the person is being asked to test, and if what they're testing isn't what's being put out then we don't know what's NOT being tested...
    Missing level crossings, missing bridges, missing light clusters in every doorway, multiple PIS on platforms etc etc wouldn't be "missed" by anyone looking, but maybe when they were sent to test those things weren't there to look for, and the question wasn't being asked
     
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  30. Willowrpe

    Willowrpe Active Member

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    I think DTG really need to change the system they have for testing as its broken far too much is released with lots of bugs not just one or 2 niggles. No software is perfect but I cant help but wonder if someone at the top of the company wants a dlc out quickly even though its unready to launch
     
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  31. L89

    L89 Well-Known Member

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    I did feel like a beta tester playing it. Platforms that have no collision (fall through them), fall onto tracks getting onto a train at one platform (huge gap), invisible barriers preventing a safe passage to other platforms (bridges and underpasses), AI services opening their doors several times at platforms, services that don't have passenger loads (just stop, open doors and tells you to stop at next station), PIS on platforms stops showing the time with the destination centred (longer destination names I think) and the collectibles have not been tested enough (possibly some are not accessible).

    Looks like there is still a lot of work to do on this route. Performance improvements a must.
     
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  32. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    No.
    It's one thing to catch a bug, but it's another to actually fix it in time. The DLC will release, whether it's ready or not. And then some DLC is delayed and still not ready, but that's enough of my complaining about SEHS for tonight.
     
  33. Nielsen

    Nielsen Well-Known Member

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    Who are you? Yes.
    The poll in a nutshell. :)

    Seriously though, I don’t think there’s any internal testing going on at DTG. In two hours I usually find issues with new routes the team could easily have caught and fixed before launch. Not enough time to fix? Don’t release until ready then.
     
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  34. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    It's almost certainly not the buildings as I ran one train on scenario planner out of Victoria and it was very smooth. It's the vast number of services that cause the drop. There are also half a dozen trains sat in sidings outside of East Croydon that are not visible while driving so what they are still doing in the gen 8 version eating up performance lord knows.
     
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  35. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    I thought the exact same as you and wondered if there was some scenery issue eating up frames, and no, it was indeed trains.

    Ran one 12 car 387 up the entire route and pretty much maintained 60FPS on PS5 the entire length, I dipped to about 45 in heavy areas such as Victoria & East Croydon, but it’s miles above the 12 - 26 frames you get in timetable.

    They were waaaaay too adventurous with the timetable for this route, and personally If I didn’t have SEHS as my most played route I’d delete that to avoid the layer.

    The PS4 version on PS5 maintains 60FPS throughout, although the shadow and draw distance is pretty poor, and obviously the textures are no where near as sharp, I think the conclusion is that there is optimisation (sick of hearing and using that word now) to be made across all builds, however I think DTG need to look at implementing player options for personal optimisation on consoles, it would be nice for me to run the PS5 build on lower textures but with the same draw distance and layers, as opposed to just ramming in 4000 trains and 4K textures and expecting the game to run smoothly.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2021
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  36. RealKenny_D

    RealKenny_D Member

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    It has occured to me that 'Release Then Fix' appears to be what's happening with the majority of DLCs. This delays my 'Day One' purchases, until things improve. BML was the only route from the Rush Hour trilogy that truly interested me, and still does - but there's an all too familiar pattern to all of this; Planning, Upcoming, Hype, Release, Disappointment.

    It would appear that the high number of services will probably be the reason for the frame rate issues experienced by console users, before we even see the passenger numbers increase.

    I can't fault DTG's ambition to create something as busy as this route. Did any of us actually believe that this would be deliverable as a project that would run in more than just a satisfactory state? I would accept a reduction in services if it would run smoothly for me end to end on my PS4 Pro.

    I look forward to getting this route one day, but for now I will turn my attention to the 'West Cornwall Local' route, which is coming soon.
     
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  37. goochdog#5870

    goochdog#5870 Active Member

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    add failure to rectify bugs etc for ages
    The thread about the Dresden bugs started over a month ago and still nothing has been done or any update on when these will be done.
     
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  38. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    I loaded my PS5 up this morning to have another go on London Commuter. Got the game up and running, then just thought, what’s the point and put FF14 on instead. I really want to play BML, but being riddled with issues, not knowing if a service will complete is no fun. And, with the PS5 DLC issue, I’m not sure it’s worth continuing until DTG finds a solution. I thoroughly expect any solution will require PS5 players to start again. I’m sure hoping not, but it’s an ultimate possibility.
     
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  39. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    Do I understand it correctly that they could plan journey scenario's that will not bring your system to it's knees? When I had a second look at BML I noticed that starting from Brighton the game felt like expected. I was already thinking my first opinion was wrong and the game did not feel laggy. The journey scenario after the tutorial starts at Victoria and it's raining and the game is laggy as hell. Shouldn't they have picked other scenario's where you almost never start at Victoria? Could they even make Victoria less taxing by having less trains at Victoria during the moment that your train is in the Victoria area when you are doing a scenario in journey?
     
  40. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    If they built Antwerp and only put half the services in there, would you think "Yeah, that reflects Antwerp as I know it", or would you think "That isn't Antwerp at all, there'd be loads of services there!"?
     
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  41. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Journey mode only clumps together scenarios, training and timetable services that are made before the journey, there aren’t any services/scenarios within journey mode that are custom to just that mode.

    However I believe that Matt had said previously that Scenarios are actually authored? I’m not sure how much of it is made by a programme and how much of it is custom but there is definitely a degree of customisation to the scenarios, so in a sense, yes they could reduce the traffic on a per scenario basis, but then you have a scenario that is less attractive compared to a timetable, when it’s supposed to be the other way around.

    The issue with BML is that DTG have just put too many trains onto too big a route, and whatever DTG’s standard for passable performance is, it’s too low.

    Even on PS5 Victoria will range as low as 10FPS upto a max of about 27FPS, unless you’re on the PS4 version in which case it’s silky smooth.
     
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  42. Chas

    Chas Active Member

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    TSW2 is primarily a train driving simulation. When at the controls other services are mainly eye candy as they rarely affect the signalling on a route. As for the robotic showroom dummies clunking around at stations and teetering on platform edges, how can so much effort be invested in them when most routes still have unresolved bugs?
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2021
  43. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    From my authoring of services on TS1 I can tell you that AI services really can affect your signalling, and really do affect performance, but you're right the game is supposed to be a train driving simulator, but also that means having trains around you in busy stations.
    The best and most authentic scenarios are the ones where the real stock is moving in real time around you...
     
  44. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Now I'm gonna be smart with you :D

    If they build Antwerp - Central they only would have to build the lower platforms which is 4 platforms. Antwerp would be easy to pull off. They could probably make Antwerp even run on a PS3
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2021
  45. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Kewl. Except in this instance trains only run on Platforms 4 and 2... Still Antwerp?
     
  46. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    Why would you build a route Antwerp - Gent? You want Antwerp - Brussels and that is platform 22 > 24. It's a tunnel. You can't use platforms 1 > 4. I would need a PS5 for that :D
     
  47. phillipa#1949

    phillipa#1949 Active Member

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    IF Sony did remove it from the PSN till it was fixed it would reflect badly on them.
    But its not going to Happen i notice this morning that the deluxe version of Rush Hour is on sale which comprises of all three rush hour routes & TWS2 base game have DTG have no shame making to version of this heavily bugged game.

    As for Sony as long as they get there cut of the sale of every download of Rush Hour they are going to keep firmly on the store you have to understand DTG & Sony are both very Arrogant & Ignorant & as long as there making money out of it there not going to be in a Rush to fix it
     
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  48. kingus.uk

    kingus.uk Active Member

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    Going back to the poll, would a better question be "Do you think DTG should have a Beta Tester program for new routes"? Give some forum members access to the route before it is released.

    Perhaps they already do, and it's top secret.....
     
  49. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    They say they do beta test, but from their streams I would say they don't test the finished route, given they're still developing when they preview.

    It also depends on what the question being asked is.
    If the question is "is the route drivable?" then the answer would generally be yes.
    If the question is "are there any glaring errors on the route" then it would depend on the route knowledge of the person testing...
    If the answer is "Will this get past the people on the forum who know which exact consist number got which stripe painted on the bottom, including the depot it ran out of, where the stripe was painted, the date it was painted (and possibly the name of the guy who made the tea for he guy who did the painting)" then we'd never get anywhere...
     
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  50. kingus.uk

    kingus.uk Active Member

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    Yeah, I get that. But some of the recent problems are a bit bigger than paint colours, railing types and engine sounds. I'm surprised they didn't get spotted.
     
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