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Poll: Would You Want Dresden-riesa To Be Postponed?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by dcnine#5410, Jul 21, 2021.

  1. dcnine#5410

    dcnine#5410 Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I would not mind if Dresden was postponed if we got the branches back, as in my opinion that would create quite possibly the best German route in the game. Feel free to leave your thoughts below.
     
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  2. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    I couldn’t comprehend a word the article said. Such a shame not all the branches
    Are featured; really bad my hopes up on this route
     
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  3. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    I love German routes but I also bought Cathcart circle because it was a network and not just A to B. Riesa Dresden was therefore set to be a real highlight for me. A German network with a ton of interesting operations. It had the opportunity to be, for me, the best route so far. Now it’s just A to B with a yard.

    Yes, I’ll wait!
     
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  4. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    As I and many others have already said:

    With those branches BRD is great, diverse and fun

    Without them it's an A - B route just like the 7+ German Modern routes we have already had, and honestly just plain and a bit boring.

    The branches make all the difference, so please, delay the route until they can be adsed in.
     
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  5. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    This route was too good to be true, so many locos included, one of the longest so far, many diverse services and branch lines - even though all locos are re-used, as mentioned before, this route was on it's way to become one of the best (with the typical bugs of course). But now, with the branches removed, it will be very similar to HRR, RRO, SKA, HMA, my interest in the route took a deep dive :( And since once the route is released it will stay as it is, those branches will never be added later. So if you ever followed your claim that you listen to the community, this is your time for redemption from Hamburg-Lübeck and getting back our trust. Postpone the release (which will be done anyway) and include the branches! There is no way around that.
     
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  6. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    Well said
     
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  7. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I really hope they will change their plans in the way you described. You put it exactly as it is.

    There is so much backlash from this (haven't seen so much backlash, even with the wrong dostos and PZB issues on HLL) that if they don't respond to the players wishes this time, I doubt they ever will.

    Having another route that is like the other German ones makes me doubt TSW can provide me with new content that feels like it actually is something new (heck, we rarely see new countries or 3rd party developers, so variety isn't gonna come from there either), and that means that I doubt whether TSW will be entertaining for me in the future...
     
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  8. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    I don't bet, but I'd bet any money on something stirring this up tommorow when that stream happens.

    Because Dovetail seeming are set to this new plan, judging by their posts, and frankly what was said above is the only good way out of this!
     
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  9. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    There is always another way, this is probably only the easy way for DTG. How that will go in the long run, I doubt in a good direction unfortunately. I bought a lot of content, but I get pushed away more and more - voted on Hamburg Lübeck with my wallet, but eventually there will be no more voting, we'll just be gone for good.
     
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  10. Hidden Donkey

    Hidden Donkey Active Member

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    If they add the branches it takes longer to make the route which costs more so they should charge more if thats what people are demanding
     
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  11. delucadomenico2009

    delucadomenico2009 Active Member

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    Me too. I can wait without problems, and i will pay the standard price for the route too, but it's time to get a vary busies german route with a lot of traffic and branches. Postponed the release DTG and take the time that you need but do (probably) the best german network for the game so far. Expetially because the route comes with no new trains.
     
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  12. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    That seems to be okay with the majority of respondents.
    They are already charging more, and yet the branch lines have been cut. What gives?

    Cheers
     
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  13. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    The price was already increased, and think about it.

    If Dresden is delayed, The sales from NEC, then BML, will generate income to cover them, not to mention the Season Ticket, and the Deluxe Edition with the base game.
     
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  14. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    The issue I see is that DTG have painted themselves into a corner by giving Rush Hour a summer release window knowing that they cannot deliver the 3 routes as originally advertised to this deadline.

    Delay one of the routes and they risk pushing it out to a Summer-Autumn or Autumn release....which looks bad from a PR point of view when it has been advertised as a Summer release since it was revealed. They want to keep all 3 routes within a relatively close release proximity so pushing 1 of the 3 routes out goes against all their marketing (esp if Rivet are pushing to get West Cornwall out as well in between..which could push out the other route even further)

    It seems to me to be a 'bit off more than they could chew' scenario. I'm sure RH will still be a decent pack and is still great value for its price, but I can understand the disappointment when some things are not delivered as advertised.
     
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  15. 59321747

    59321747 Active Member

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    It cannot be postponed. DTG announced that it will open three passenger routes during the summer peak period. Branches can be added at any time in subsequent updates.
     
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  16. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    On a technical level, this is possible... however there is no historical precedent for DTG doing so. In fact, they have been extremely adamant that they will not extend routes after release and that they are "as-is". Therefore it is imperative that such fundamental issues are solved before release, as DTG will not make substantial, fundamental changes to routes post-release.

    Cheers
     
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  17. 59321747

    59321747 Active Member

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    I believe that the times are changing, but at the same time we must maintain the tradition. I believe they will extend the route instead of making a collection game!
     
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  18. dcnine#5410

    dcnine#5410 Well-Known Member

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    We now have over 100 responses to the poll (thank you so much for responding everyone) and the outcome is very clear- people want the branches back. I’ve been on these forums for a while (not posting too much though) and I have never before seen this level of engagement. I really think that DTG would do well to note the scale of this backlash. It’s been said before that the loyal community is the backbone of this game, and, well, the community doesn’t seem too happy right about now. So please DTG, do bring the branches back!
     
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  19. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    Dude this makes no sense they took the branches out and are still charging us more. I never asked for them to be left off after they have hyped up the branches specifically for this route and I still have to pay more for less.

    If they charged more and kept the branches the as they were I'm sure there would not be such an uproar as there has been today.

    I even watched the first rush hour stream from May the 4th. You should too, as from day one they were hyping how Dresden was going be something new for TSW because of the branches. They even were talking about passengers and adding luggage for the Dresden Flughafen and Gatwick stations. Well the Flughafen is on one of the removed branches.

    So how does that justify the increase in cost of about 25% when you remove about 25% of a route?

    Explain why I should pay more to demand something that was already written up and hyped for the last 2 months of streams and articles. I'm not demanding more than they offered to begin with I don't care about the price increase.

    I just want them to stick to their word.
     
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  20. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    No branches are ever added. DTG don't do route extensions.
     
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  21. SonicScott91

    SonicScott91 Well-Known Member

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    I support the idea of a delay to get those branch lines reinstated. We can't let Beeching's influence enter DTG!

    However, I don't actually see it happening. The route has been in development for a while now and I think it's possible that the branch lines were cut from the project quite a while ago. Sam mentioned a few times in the early roadmap days that until an item on the roadmap is officially released, anything could change with that item or it could be removed completely. It's not a list of promises, only a small peek into TSW2 dev cycle and that's what's happened here with Riesa - Dresden, the scope of the project changed. DTG are completely in their rights to do so and don't owe us anything, they make a product and we choose whether to buy it or not. That doesn't give us say in what goes in the next DLC project, although they do listen to and consider suggestions, such as adding fences to SEHS or 363 to Riesa - Dresden.

    While I found some of the negative reactions a little over the top, I will say that DTG brought this situation on themselves with their own poor decision making. Not really the best idea to announce a price rise alongside throwing content on the cutting room floor, is it? If they had kept the price quiet until a release date announcement, there wouldn't have been such a backlash when they cut around 20km out of a route. It would have been disappointing still but it wouldn't be as bad as it was yesterday...

    So if DTG do delay the route in response, fantastic! But don't get your hopes up, we'll have to wait and see what is said on tonight's stream. It's going to be an interesting one!
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
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  22. conniethunder

    conniethunder Active Member

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    As far as quality goes, the longer we wait, hopefully the better the product will be.
     
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  23. cadeshr6s

    cadeshr6s Active Member

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    The Problem ist, that DTG announced the branches on the Steam Store Page anf thats a promise for me. Yesterday they changed everything.
     
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  24. mailerdemon

    mailerdemon Member

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    I find it ironic that for a game soon to be subtitled 'Rush Hour', one of the key routes got its very rush hour lines axed. It's the rapid transit sbahn lines where the commuter action is and, based on a cursory look at the DB website, not at all the line to Gro enhein. And the rest of the route is well known from the still very recent and imho nicely done TS release. For me this new route went straight from the really-want-that into the meh-maybe-at-a-huge-discount pile.
     
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  25. Hidden Donkey

    Hidden Donkey Active Member

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    exactly things can change nothing has been removed it just hasnt been added in the first place, we arnt losing anything as we didnt hav it in the first place
     
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  26. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, the steam store really feels like a promise. The roadmap we know is subject to change, but changing the steam store page (without explicitly saying you did) goes a little to far.
     
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  27. uvm0902

    uvm0902 Active Member

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    Personally, I am willing to wait as long as it takes to complete the work. I'm ready to buy it for a separate DLC
    from the Chach Peak package. I'm even willing to pay a big price for it. I ask DTG to make us a holiday.
     
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  28. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    DTG lost my purchase for BRD, which is unfortunate because they certainly had it up until yesterday's announcement. :)

    Cheers
     
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  29. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    We are losing what Made Dresden a proper Rush Hour route, as well as it's variety and diversity. So we do lose a lot.

    And DTG are clearly going to lose a lot of sales on it.
     
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  30. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    Seems like I missed some news here. So apparently price increase while also transferring the german route into another one of of the countless A to B routes.

    DTG hyped up Riesa Dresden themselves with the addition of the branches and while I will accept a price increase for such a route pack, I will not tolerate you falling back on your word regarding the content planned.
    This was a sign of good things to come, a flagship of a route that is bolstered not only with lots of different trains and layers, but with the arguably most diverse gameplay options given the branches.

    The hint I get now is that for the future, expect more of the same old coffee we had dozens of times before, A to B routes with lack of gameplay experience.
    So instead of evolving the game and building up for future releases we get this.

    I won't buy rush hour this way and I am afraid this whole controversy just shows me that maybe it it time to part ways with this game. The last dlc I bought was SEHS anyway.
     
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  31. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Community Manager Staff Member

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    We will not be postponing Riesa Dresden. This is something we are unable to do.

    If the removal of branch lines is a deal breaker for you, then I would understand that. However I would also suggest watching the preview streams before completely deciding you are no longer interested.

    We understand how disappointing this removal is, particularly for those of you who enjoy German content.

    And I get it, we have changed what we originally planned. But these changes have been made to avoid delivering a poor experience. The addition of branch lines would have resulted in us over stretching, and not being able to meet a standard we were satisfied with.
     
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  32. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Well then, that's it for me probably. DTG has lost my trust completely. Even with the branches cut the route could still be not up to a certain quality standard, as releases haven't been in tip-top shape for a while now.

    Not including those branches shows that DTG has no idea of what actually makes an interesting route, and there, after 7 routes, with BRD being the 8th, that are just modern German A-B with similar or the same rolling stock I don't think this game will ever offer interesting variety, it has reached the peak of it's potential apparently. All we'll ever get is electrified German modern A-B mainlines.

    It also shows that while you say you're listening, you do not go out of your way to actually meet the communities clearly formulated wishes. It makes it seem as if you saying 'your feedback is noted' is just a way of keeping hopes up that the next release won't be like the previous ones (so we'll sink our money into that), just to smash that hope with the same exact sentence next time.

    This feels harsh especially for the German players, who didn't get an IC cab car, got the wrong Dostos, PZB issues and now no branches while BML got 2 miles extra.

    I still like the content I have, and I'll keep playing it, and I have nothing against the DTG staff, but the chances of me hyping up and buying upcoming content are next to none now. I just don't think anything interesting is going to come anymore.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
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  33. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    I genuinely can't agree more.

    They shot themselves in the foot yesterday, and just fired another.
     
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  34. lukereynolds1

    lukereynolds1 Well-Known Member

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    A bit of foresight wouldn't have gone a miss. After having made so many routes, it is concerning that DTG are unable at this stage to forsee that a route may be too onerous or complicated to complete in the time limits set by themselves. Something must be adrift in the planning stages, as was the same with the dostos in Hamburg Lubeck, the layers in Munich etc. If you can't fulfill what you set out to do, please don't attempt to do it in the first place. There are thousands of potential routes to choose from, so it seems utterly bizarre to choose routes that will have imminent problems with their implementation.

    As I've said before, these issues do not have to exist. All of the issues created are done so by yourselves. I just don't understand why you continuously make a rod for your own backs.
     
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  35. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Shame.
    Screenshot_20210722_111445.jpg
     
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  36. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    So why make a fuzz about it in the first place? Where is your marketing team, did they not tell you that making all these announcements and then not being able to deliver on them will end up with a bad time?
    No I won't watch any mire streams. There is no sugarcoating this mess. How can you still be trying to sell us ice cream that you not only have taken away the taste from but upped the price as well?
    Easy choice for me, no branches, no buy. I am fed up with this and the several issues that each and every release of any content over the last 13 months has brought with them, which most of them are not addressed or processed for months (freight exchange anyone?) and I am not willing to sink any more of my hard earned cash into this game unless there are some proper changes. There is no way to trust this company any more. Overpromising, harsh bugs that get ignored, cut corners everywhere.
    You get no money from me anymore, I am done with this game. Maybe get your hollow left overs of routes at harsh discounts next year at best.
     
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  37. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Slightly harsh, but I agree.

    Something big has to change. Or else TSW will end up in a gutter.
     
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  38. Yorkshirelad

    Yorkshirelad Member

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    Thats bull and you know it, you can delay and deliver the content to an acceptable standard, christ sake as many have said WE DONT MIND IF ITS DELAYED, but no all we get is a crappy response.
     
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  39. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    At least 140 people have said to delay it and get the branches back yet they do nothing.
     
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  40. Yorkshirelad

    Yorkshirelad Member

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    I think a lot more who dont come on here would also say the same too, id hazard a guess and say the vast majority of the community would support a delay for the inclusion of the branch lines
     
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  41. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    Yes it is harsh but I feel like it has to be. Either DTG are in their own world where they just don't get it, or they are ignoring us, the customers.
    I started with tsw2020 13 months ago and it was quite the journey. But the longer you are using the content, the more issues appear. These range from bugs to gameplay issues and to content. You could write pages worth of mind boggling decisions that have been made, the lack of care for the existing player base and the amount of bugs and issues that either don't get addressed or take months to get released. It just shows that something is not working as it should. And I have given them the benefit of the doubt for several months, but after all that happened (or didn't happen) I just can't anymore.

    As mentioned before, I haven't bought a DTG route for almost half a year now. Didn't buy LGV but I bought SEHS, apart from that, nothing. Rush hour was going to rekindle my enthusiasm with a day 1 purchase. Well not anymore.

    This takes me to the point now where I have to ask myself, will I stop moaning and accept it the way it is, and apparently, is going to stay the next months, or will I not accept it. Which I have decided on the latter.

    It may sound harsh but how else can I show DTG that I expect different from them, other than by telling them I won't buy and actually following through with it.

    Surely they will say amongst them that a single or couple few people don't matter. But seeing the reactions here I have a feeling that this time they will be able to feel it.
     
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  42. Larwan

    Larwan Member

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    Sorry DTG, but it was possible to delay TSW 2 but not one Rush Hour Route? Come on! DTG just thinks it is more expensive to release this route later, than the money they lose from lost sales. And I think that they are maybe wrong with that. I have the fealing DTG is not looking at the (especially the german) community. Every one of the regularly players I know wants to buy the Dresden Route because of the branch lines and the big network. Nearly nobody want to buy Rush Hour without it. But maybe I am wrong with that, ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
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  43. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Waiting for the announcement that VIC - BRI is only going as far as Gatwick because otherwise there'll be trouble...

    Yet again DTG make announcements they're not able to fulfill in self imposed deadlines...
     
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  44. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Now I wasn't on the forums when it happened, but I've heard that Pres. Collection was sparked from a community demand, and it went on to become hugely successful?

    Hmm, it's almost like listening to the people who buy stuff's wishes is a good idea...
     
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  45. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    I’m not even bothering with the stream tonight. It’s obvious they are not going to do anything.

    In my opinion Nat’s response is probably what she’s been told to say. But it just doesn’t fit the situation. There is a price rise, that can cover additional development. They could also switch the order of delivery to make It last of the 3. It leaves a pretty bad feeling towards DTG.

    As there is now nothing on the roadmap that I’m interested in, I shall take a break from DTG. I’m sure I’ll be back, I like TSW and I’m not shooting myself in the foot by saying I’m done with DTG.

    For now, I’ve voiced my disappointment and I’m off to play something else for a while.

    I will however be watching out for the survey that Sam has mentioned. I hope that will be open enough for us to say what we think.
     
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  46. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    Well, that just says to me that DTG have absolutely no respect for their customers. If such a backlash as this generates such a glib “mummy knows best” response, then the relationship between DTG and their customers is non existent as far as I am concerned. Any customer loyalty that may have existed has been utterly destroyed.
     
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  47. thundergaming11

    thundergaming11 Well-Known Member

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    Practically unable to do? Or have been instructed not to in order to meet deadlines as to not to slow development for other future content?

    Well I guess I'd rather a functioning, detailed route than one that is broken or poor. But this must mean it'll be near perfection now along with the 313 that was delayed. At least that's what I'll be expecting ;)
     
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  48. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    Every time DTG staff intervenes in a thread to explain their decisions I can see them clutching at straws. It doesn't make any sense
     
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  49. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    The reply the community expected. Nothing personal whatsoever, but this just reaffirms our view of DTG’s contempt towards its customers. You don’t want to deliver a poor experience, yet that’s exactly what you are doing. I hope the community takes note and does vote with their wallets.

    DTG could extend the deadline if it wanted too. Don’t claim it’s not something you can do, when clearly you can. You’re just choosing not too, despite the huge backlash.
     
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  50. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    this :D
    just proves to me how out of touch they actually are to their customer base.
     
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