PC Price Increase?

Discussion in 'Train Sim World Discussion' started by Purno, Sep 7, 2022.

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  1. mbjbjm#7281

    mbjbjm#7281 Member

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    This just wasn’t the route to introduce a price increase. I would happily pay that for a route like London Commuter or one of the German routes that provide a tonne of content. This is a relatively short route with one loco. It’s just not good value. I’d rather just go back and buy an older DLC that I don’t have that provides more content.

    DTG really need to rethink their pricing strategy. Cathcart, Cornwall and this route shouldn’t be as expensive or even more expensive than routes like London Commuter that provide multiple locos, a bigger route and far more services.

    I was interested in this route but unless the 323 is the best model they’ve produced I don’t think you can justify purchasing this at that price when they have far better products on sale for less.
     
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  2. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    It wasn't introduced with this route it was introduced with CJP, SEHS and SKW. Just people buried their heads in the sand and refused to believe this was the new price for TSW DLCs.

    One thing people are forgetting that a higher price attracts more third parties as I'd imagine they get slightly more per route they develop. We all do want more third parties on the program don't we?
     
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  3. Der Uni

    Der Uni Active Member

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    No, it's the principle. Less than a year ago I bought a full-price game with little new content. And now a DLC costs more because I already have the game? Or I should pay as much as a player who doesn't have the game yet?

    No, there's something seriously wrong with DTG's pricing policy.

    Ok, now DTG can calculate there pricing policy for their own:
    How can they make more Money:
    1.: With increase the Price up to 6€ (did´t know the Price for other Countries at the Moment) for a DLC or
    2.: An unsold product for 26€ in Pre order.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2022
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  4. Texasrangers UK

    Texasrangers UK Member

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    The lack of a discount for pre-purchasing the DLC is disappointing. £30 is a bit much for such a small route and only 1 new rolling stock. I would gladly pay more for a UK route which is over 100 miles long. Would I still buy BCC on the first day, I'll probrably will.
     
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  5. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Well-Known Member

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    My big Problem with this is the lack of communication from the management team of DTG. NO EXPLANATION...
    We are chicken like COD or Fifa players, its incredible
     
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  6. conniethunder

    conniethunder Well-Known Member

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    No disrespect, but you need to go look at TSC. For what it would cost to buy just Steam DLC's, you'd need over £12,000. There's is nothing 'niche' about Train 'simulation' any more.
    The problem that DTG have is bringing over all those loyal TSC fans to a better 3D world with the likes of currently, TSW3.
     
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  7. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Well-Known Member

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    and what about other games like TSC and fishing are all prices going higher?
    Quality is worse and the prices go higher. Damn I'm lost :D

    I think the only thing we can to is to boycott the next DLC on thursday. I dont se any other possibilty to show the disapointment of the players to DTG..

    Money is and has always been the key

    I'm in :D
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2022
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  8. matt#4801

    matt#4801 Well-Known Member

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    Regarding BCC we have no idea that quality is going to be worse and I for one am not disappointed especially after the article about the layers. I was on the fence as to whether I was going to buy it when it was announced leaked but after the screenshots over the past week or so and the article today I'm going day one. As I've said the £30 doesn't bother me because I would only spend it on a measly 70 miles worth of fuel which will give me, depending on where I go, an hour and a half of enjoyment whereas this route will give me many, many, many hours of enjoyment. Obviously we all have different views of value but I would say this route is still good value for money.
     
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  9. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    train simulation is niche in that there aren't many developers out there who make train simulations like dtg does. There is wos, but the scope isn't as large as dtgs. There is zusi for the really hardcore fans. There are train management games which doesn't even match what dtg is trying to do. There is simrail coming out, but we won't know how it is until it comes out. What im saying is that there aren't a lot of devs out there who have created a train sim as large as what dtg have created.
     
  10. PseudoStalker

    PseudoStalker Member

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    Is this some kind of a joke?
    You've just double the price of a new route for Ukraine?
    I'm done with this LOVE, go to hell DTG!
     

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  11. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    Something is very wrong with the exchange rates. The Swiss Franc to UKP conversion is currently £29.99 = 34.10CHF. Steam is asking me to pay 44.50CHF. That's ridiculous. I was looking forward to this route, but if you're going to overcharge your overseas customers you can count me out. Routes have general been 30CHF in the past. I don't mind the small increase, but you are asking 50% more because I live outside the UK?

    DTG JD - sorry for the tag, but what is the reason for this? I know you mentioned that it was in line with STEAM Guidelines or something, but a 50% increase when the Swiss Franc is strong against the UKP (and has been for quite some time) is quite honestly an insult. For previous routes the exchange rate was much more accurate. Now you are asking me to pay roughly 14UKP more than previous routes.

    Judging by the post above mine, and a few others, this does not seem to be an isolated occurrence.

    I would have bought the XBOX version. I'm dreading what that's going to cost as historically it was always the most expensive version anyway and we know that it'll be unlikely to appear in a sale.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2022
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  12. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    Though not a big surprise DTG increases the prices, Euro 35.99 feels even far more than 29.99 which already is a lot of money for me. I still feel a bit angry about the pricing for TSW3, where ALL players are more or less forced to buy this as a new game to be able to add more content later. I think we are at a point DTG can add more content faster than our wallets allow. In general I will stop buying content at day1 but wait consistently for a 50% discount. A British route with only one loco (does it have layers?) is not giving me that much fun. The scenery may be iconic for people living in the UK, for me it is not. I skipped a number of routes now, still enough fun to play TSW3 every day.
     
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  13. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    Sorry to hear you're frustrated. The current prices are based on the Steam pricing matrix, which was altered over the past couple of weeks, and is based on the USD base pricing: https://steamdb.info/blog/valve-price-matrix-2022-update/
     
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  14. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    There's a deep-dive of the timetable here, with all the layers you can expect: https://live.dovetailgames.com/live/train-sim-world/articles/article/cross-city-timetable-deep-dive
     
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  15. RailFan97

    RailFan97 Active Member

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    Interestingly DTG say £30 isn't a fixed price for all future routes. If £30 is the cost of a 32-mile route with one rolling stock, I don't think we can rule out prices being even higher for longer routes with multiple stock. I don't think this is a completely bad thing though and it could result in DTG building longer routes (e.g. stretch of the WCML) which they previously wouldn't do as it wasn't financially viable at £24.99.
     
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  16. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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  17. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    Hi DTG JD - Thanks for replying so quickly. I checked the link that you posted above and it suggests that the CHF price will increase by 12% even adding on the price increase in the UK this is not a 50% increase, so I don't get the maths here. I can afford it and I want it, but this is really poor, and I can't support that, so I won't purchase any further DLC. Does it really cost 50% more for you to sell a digital product in Switzerland?

    Is it possible for you to tell me what the XBOX price will be please (in CHF if possible)
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2022
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  18. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    It is still a rotten price increase only made worse by the lack of any pre order discount. As others have stated, what is the point of having a pre order period with no incentive to use it?
     
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  19. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    My apologies - as I mentioned, these prices are automated based on that suggested matrix on the USD price ($39.99). GBP and Euros have a standalone price which takes into account this matrix, but other currencies are based on the matrix.

    In CHF, it'll be 42CHF on Xbox - just checked with our Retail team.
     
  20. Glazier

    Glazier Member

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    They are automated as long as developer does not want to change anything. You can set any price for any region if you do more than 2 clicks.
     
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  21. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for checking. Hopefully it also gets Gamepass discount. That almost makes it ok.
     
  22. sequencer2k16

    sequencer2k16 Well-Known Member

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    More than 2 clicks are critical, today you need consultants and suggestions for everything, acting yourself is dying out more and more. :D
     
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  23. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Well-Known Member

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    So if I understand Alex, we follow the currency.
    So currently 1$=1€
    Why the DLC doesn't also costs 39.99€ and 35,99€?
    It sounds for me a hidden way to increase the prices
     
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  24. Ravi

    Ravi Well-Known Member

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    I preordered at $40 yesterday but I didnt realize there was no lauch discount. Oh well, DTG is not insulated from the inflation either.
     
  25. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    We are enquiring with the Game Pass team.
     
  26. Cyklisten

    Cyklisten Well-Known Member

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    I guess that price increase is spot on, TSW was first released in 2017...

    inflationcalc.jpg
     
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  27. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    That doesn't align with other currencies such as the U.S, Canada and India. It certainly doesn't match the inflation rate in the U.S. There are certain regions that have seen absurd increases in prices that don't align with their inflation rate. DTG don't have to use the steam conversion rates. That is completely optional and the steam conversions don't reflect inflation rates

    This thread in the PC discussion forum talks about this issue
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/non-uniform-increment-in-price.61446/
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2022
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  28. Sparmi

    Sparmi Well-Known Member

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    I've also noticed that the DLC prices have gone up. They are now €35.99 on Steam, similar to the TSW3 starter packs. The price in the Playstation store was always the same as on Steam. That's an increase of about 18%! :o

    What else can one say, in the last year everything has become more expensive everywhere, why should the price increase stop before the games industry. Ultimately, the computers and electricity in development studios run all day long. Otherwise you can't create any digital content. In these times, discounts will be expected all the more eagerly than usual. Nevertheless, for day1 purchases, you also make sure to support your favorite developer, which will certainly be harder for many than usual.

    The most expensive DLCs are still in the area of flight simulations. For example, a Concorde alone costs 30€ for MSFS. Top of the list still reamins DCS, where an F-14 Tomcat alone costs a whopping 74€. So if you take that for comparison, you get a complete route in TSW3 for 35€, including a new train and many eagerly added extra layers.

    Blaming the man in the Kremlin for everything would certainly be too easy, the energy turnaround and dependence on fossil fuels are falling on our feet now as well. At some point the prices will fall again, but certainly not before the next moon landing in 2025. So grit your teeth and hold on because we are all in the same boat!
     
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  29. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    There is a big difference... Games like any other entertainment software are optional. As I've said before in these posts and I'll say it again, you don't see the prices of DVD's, Blu-rays, 4K discs rising in line with inflation. I pay the same now for a movie on disc as I did years ago. It's called market pricing. If the price goes too high, people stop buying and again, as I've already said, the DLC is pricey compared to other game add ons anyway. It's up to DTG to address their business model not just jack the prices up and I still think this will come back to bite them.

    I just hope this 20% is being invested in fixing some of the many outstanding issues. The Technical Forum is a sorry daily catalogue of failures, many of which continue to be ignored or given low priority (like fixing broken Journey elements). No doubt BCC will be adding to the list in a couple of weeks time and paying £30 for something that is in all likelihood broken and then forgotten about, just like Spirit Of Steam, is indeed entirely optional. I will of course be happy to be proved wrong and if, in a months time the reviews and feedback on BCC indicate a highly polished product with no bugs or issues setting new standards of excellence then I could well decide it's worth £30... we shall see.
     
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  30. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    I suspect it's being invested in paying the developers, who will probably be earning 20% more at the same grade than they were in 2017. A good path to fixing issues is not having all of your staff leave because you're a tyrant who hasn't given them inflationary pay rises. :)
     
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  31. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    RSSLOs new route for TSC is retailing at €36.99 as apposed to their previous route which was priced at €29.99. If developers are increasing the price, this sends out a statement to the buyer. To buy or not to buy?

    I have all the content issued for TSW on the PC and most for my xbox, so at that price I will wait for a reasonable sale price before I buy. Have a lot to play before I purchase an overpriced new route.
     
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  32. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I somehow doubt DTG will be giving their staff a 20% pay rise. Also I suspect some of the stuff is created by associates who may well get payed for their work on a royalty basis, rather than an actual salary.
     
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  33. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    No, they won't have a 20% pay rise this year, but will have been receiving incremental pay rises each year for the last decade. That adds up and is obviously not sustainable unless you eventually raise your product prices.

    The people paid on royalties will also have seen their living expenses increase and will only be able to continue producing content if their cut of the profits increases. This isn't complicated.

    Your DVD argument is also nonsense. The cost of producing a movie is largely covered by cinema takings. Producing a (largely obsolete) DVD from that movie is a high volume, low cost process where any profit margin left after distributors and retailers have taken a cut, is gravy for the studio long after they've moved on to sequels and other projects. TSW is pitched to a relatively much smaller audience, has ongoing development costs, and every single sale will be important in recovering those costs. There's simply not so much buffer or volume that they can not worry about pricing.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2022
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  34. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well regardless of all that, a route DLC priced at £29.99 is really going to have to convince me it is worth that amount of money. As I said, optional entertainment software...
     
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  35. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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    With this route DTG has made it easy for me to decide whether to buy it on the day of release or not. Thank you!

    The 20!% increase because potato. Yes, yes... inflation, Ukraine and blablabla. The point is that the increase in my salary has been 4%, and also have increased for me the prices of all basic services, fuel, food,etc etc.


    They can increase what they see fit, it is their business. But I am very clear that I am not going to pay it. So neither 36€, nor 30€. Now I will wait for a discount and also buy a more polished product with updates. I am in no hurry.
     
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  36. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    OV, I agree. When everything else is rocketing like Petrol, Gas, Electricity and Food prices, my pension income doesn’t rise to keep up with inflation, I will wait for the sales in future. I have this route on TSC, so the only advantage is to walk around the stations, the loco and the carriages. Would have preordered at £22.94, but at thirty quid, they have lost me. I have so much to play with, so will wait awhile for a steam bargain sale.

    If everyone does the same, DTG will soon realise they priced it too high.
     
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  37. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Same here. I have more than enough content in TSW, TSC not to mention Run 8, Snowrunner and the truck sims to occupy me probably fir years. So it has to be really special and/or consumer friendly price to woo me. DTG will be getting some of my money in the forthcoming sales - Harlem, HSC, Hamburg to Lubeck and in TSC quite possibly North Wales Coast, Peace Valley and Feather River. So absolutely no need to spend £30 on this short little route.
     
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  38. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    With so many financially struggling, Christmas this year should all be about caring for others, DTG should be thinking of that. The pricing of £29.99 is being too greedy.

    They would make more money for their increasing overheads, if they made the price more attractive to encourage more buyers than usual.

    What disappoints me about the price is, not the length 37 miles or the 25 stations which are pretty good, but there is only one locomotive. I would happily pay more for a route Birmingham to Manchester or Birmingham to London with at least a couple of locomotives.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2022
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  39. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Would you rather the prices had increased by 4% per year to match your salary, rather than having one 20% increase after five years of static pricing? We'd be in the same place price wise, but maybe you'd be less outraged by the very idea that game developers need food and fuel too! :)

    I'm not sure it works like that with a niche product like a train sim. You may encourage a few curious extras in, but not in the kind of numbers you'd need to make a real difference. The player numbers for TSW are astoundingly low compared to the big AAA titles which charge far more because, by its very nature, it'll never be of interest to the majority of gamers.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2022
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  40. deeuu#6908

    deeuu#6908 Active Member

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    I think I am just going to buy it to support the developers through this tough time, sure if you look at it from the viewpoint that you're paying more and getting the same or less then don't buy it, but I can't see it that way.
    Times are tough for everyone at the moment, and are going to get tougher, so if me chucking 30 quid at them helps, why not.
    Maybe DTG could look at some kind of other value added bonus that comes with buying a new DLC, maybe a loyalty scheme where when you buy a DLC you get points you can use towards a discount for an older DLC, something that gives value to the end user but doesn't involve an extra work for the development team.
     
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  41. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    Just Trains have a loyalty program. Every purchase gives you money off a future purchase. Works out at 5% discount. I buy through Just Trains as it keeps the cost down. You can also save your points up to accumulate and get free product. With Just Trains this purchase would earn 145 points or £1.45 off your next buy. It would be great if Steam did this. There points system doesn’t give discounts on DTG products.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2022
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  42. deeuu#6908

    deeuu#6908 Active Member

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    Unfortunately, I am a console pleb, so I don't think I can buy through 3rd stores.
     
  43. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    If everyone does the same DTG will likely end up having to make people redundant, or cutting development for new content.

    Obviously individuals have to do what is best for them financially but the reality of the situation is that a company needs to make money not just to cover day to day costs but to fund future projects and future proof themselves.

    I know some just want to see this as DTG are evil money grabbing so and so's but this is the reality of most industry at the moment costs are rising and companies cannot just stand still, I suspect DTG had little choice..

    I have pre-ordered as it is a route I would like and I do want to see the franchise grow despite its flaws.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2022
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  44. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    While I normally agree with what you have to say I can't on this. DTG are not a charity creating train sim stuff out the kindness of their hearts, they are a hard nosed business. The best way to maximise income is to release quality products at a reasonable price. In the case of BCC this represents neither.

    And before anyone suggests I'm picking on DTG, I have the same approach towards N3V with the latest version of Trainz, not paying £55 for it or the same amount for Zusi 3 much as I would like to get both, It's not that I can't afford them, I just don't think that price represents value for money. (I spent £60 on MSFS and barely used it).
     
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  45. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    I'm kinda glad you've already decided it's low quality and over-priced. Since you definitely won't be buying at launch, can I assume we won't have to put up with all this negativity on the post-launch threads, at least until there's a sale?
     
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  46. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Judging by the fact it was hauled back in the factory at the last moment to address the textures and lighting at New Street, the missing footbridge supports, the CBA to include Soho Depot, I could be forgiven for predetermining that. Still as I already said, I stand by my word that if the reviews and feedback on here are first class I may revise my decision and purchase after all.

    Also based on the trail of broken issues and lack of fixes - just take a look at the Technical Forum on any given day!
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2022
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  47. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I don't always agree with what I say either!

    I may well end up regretting it, although as I purchased it I now have TSW3 and the newly extended SEHS which I was having fun on yesterday. The first time I have played TSW since I got bored of SOS about a week after its launch! If it wasn't a route I had wanted to see then I would have been sitting on my wallet and maybe only purchased in a sale.

    I suspect it is because they are a hard nosed business that they have made this decision, they aren't the first and won't be the last. I imagine it is the accountants who have seen the figures and have decided this is the right decision. I guess time will tell.

    I personally won't change my purchasing habits, if I want something enough I am happy to pay £30 as much as I would have paid £25, but I rarely purchase TSW products on day one nowadays as many feel half finished to me.

    Obviously everyone puts their own value for a product which is right and proper.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2022
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  48. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    I have no issue with a price increase per se, however what we are seeing is releases coming out and then seeing no more DLC or very little. The speed at which DLC comes out is remarkably slow when we consider TSW has been put since CSX heavy haul in some form or another. In TSC stuff used to come out almost weekly and had other devs involved which TSW does too but much slower. The community as a whole seems very frustrated and that's wether you like old or new trains freight or passenger lines.

    Why DTG have done 2 routes with BR era EMUs then chosen to do privatisation era liveries and have small amounts of AI is baffling. I guess shouts for Scotrail, XC, Southeastern etc beat BR. Hands down as do sales figures. At the current rate Birmingham New Street may never look anywhere near what it should train wise despite the PR blurb telling us how many platforms its got and passengers that use it!!
     
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  49. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Tsc to tsw is a big learning curve for third party developers. So it's going to take longer to create routes. It's not like they can pump out a route a week or something. The routes have to be more detailed, there's simugraph, unreal engine tools, etc so it'll take several years for third party devs once they join to create something. If they're a very small team, then it would take even longer
     
  50. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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    I am not outraged, but an increase of 20% seems excessive to me. To refute your argument, I don't think my salary increase over the last 5 years added together is more than 10%.

    But I repeat that they can increase what they want, then we consumers will accept to buy it or not, because it is a tough situation for everyone and this is still an entertainment product that we can do without. DTG will have to determine if it was the right decision when they make their balance sheets.
     
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