PC Problem Line Bakerloo

Discussion in 'Technical Reports' started by Franck69, Jan 16, 2021.

  1. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I did get a response to my ticket from Chris (written by a person, not an automated response)
     
  2. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It happened AGAIN!

    The first time I've attempted Bakerloo in days- same thing, this time at Warwick Avenue. No red box this time, it's white, brake pressure is good- but..... nothing.

    I have not been able to complete a single service on Bakerloo in over a week, perhaps not coincidentally since the last patch. This route is unplayable - and the support team's final response to my ticket was, basically, "Sod off." Are you actually reading these, Sam and Natalie? This is not a "cannot reproduce." It happens EVERY BLOODY TIME. And it's certainly not a fence or the wrong color ballast.

    Here is what another user had to say:
    This "New User" had a join date of February 5: a new DTG customer, and already an ex-DTG customer. Yes, Virginia, failure to address game-breaking bugs has revenue consequences.
     
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  3. A Big Chungus

    A Big Chungus Active Member

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    It's so weird. Yesterday was the first time the route actually worked for me. In my situation I've noticed that the MR gauge does not always recharge. If that gauge drops below whatever number the BP gauge is at, then both gauges will then drop to 0, causing the train to lock up. Then no matter what you do, they will never recharge.

    I noticed that at most of the stations the MR gauge will recharge, but at some it won't. I'm not sure if this is the glitch or not.

    My MR gauge dipped between 5.0 and 6.0. My BP was always set at 4.5. At some stations upon stopping, the MR gauge would re-charge to somewhere between 5.7 and 6.0. At other stations it would not recharge at all. If the MR gauge dropped below 4.5, I noticed then that both MR and BP would then gradually decrease to 0. And that's when the train locks up and you can't reset it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2021
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  4. Tanglebones

    Tanglebones Active Member

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    I used to play Bakerloo frequently, it's one of my most favourite routes, but I too experience this almost every time now. This route is broken for me and DTG's silence in this thread is baffling.
     
  5. Reventloff

    Reventloff Well-Known Member

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    Would be better to report this issue as a ticket in DTG support. More people report this properly - more chances to make this problem a priority!

    It does not take much time to make a ticket, guys. A pair of screenshots or a short vid would be best, but a ticket with just detailed problem description (which you can copy from this thread already) will do too. I personally try to make a ticket every time I find something really frustrating or gamebraking for me :D
     
  6. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Have already done so. Got back "Cannot reproduce, no further action."
     
  7. jasonhaigneylim

    jasonhaigneylim Member

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    I have this bug too. I don't think it's a power issue imo. When you come to a full stop the hud power box goes red, the same way it goes red when you open the doors. So maybe the game thinks the doors have been opened. Just a thought, could be way off.
     
  8. scienceravenclaw

    scienceravenclaw New Member

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    Good morning everybody!

    I met this issue several times when I enter a train station and try to leave it. Doors closed and the red box appeared around the power level display. I have never opened the window or did something else which could cause this bug, but I saved the game sometimes. Resetting the Tube Stock does not help as well as using the override switch behind the driver's seat.

    I've attached two screenshots. The first one shows the red box and the second shows that the train is still connected with the power rail, so there cannot be no more power on the train. Hope that the devs will fix this bug soon because the Bakerloo Line looks great and intresting.

    Edit: The indicator in the first screenshot shows that the right doors are open but when I closed them the Tube is still not moving.
     

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    Last edited: Feb 15, 2021
  9. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    But the indicator says your doors are still open, that way you don't get power of course. Is the blue light on the desk (bottom left corner) illuminated? If not, the doors are still open.
     
  10. RotorHed

    RotorHed Member

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    Yes this is the problem.

    I have been trying to make it recreateable today on PS5.

    If I get the MR to droop to 4.4 it causes this fault. If the brakes get this way while travelling they’ll just stop the train.

    Playing around with the brakes depletes the MR pressure (for example if you have to brake for a down grade) and it doesn’t recover so once you’re at 4.4 the train will freeze.

    I’ve a save and several captured PS4 vids of this phenomenon now.

    Is it a bug though or mishandling of the train? I’m afraid my knowledge of how the 72 stock operates is basically zero. I’m not even sure if there is a modelled gauge of the MR (ie not the HUD one) and if there is a control to pressurise it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2021
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  11. ADSTRAINSUK

    ADSTRAINSUK Member

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    tip don't use the save feature
     
  12. Merrin

    Merrin New Member

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    I submitted a ticket and the response from the devs just told me to look at the manual.
    :mad:
     
  13. RotorHed

    RotorHed Member

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    Is there a manual? I couldn’t find one.

    Anyway I’ve been trying to see if I could deliberately trigger the problem.

    MR - what does that stand for? At first I thought it was an air pressure revervoir but now I’m think it may refer to the rheostat.

    Anyway, if you sit with the brake at stage 1 - the MR reading will decrease in 0.1 decrements until 4.9 where it “recharges” to 5.9 ish.

    If you sit at a station with the brake at stage 1 this happens repeatedly.

    When the train fails, somehow this MR value gets below 4.9 and never recharges. So far I haven’t been able to deliberately recreate the scenario that takes it there though.

    I did wonder if some funkiness with making a save file at the wrong moment might interrupt the recharge process.

    I also wondered if the train only has a limited number of recharges but I don’t think so.

    These seem unlikely but so far I haven’t found either sim or real world explanations of how this system is supposed to work ...
     
  14. scienceravenclaw

    scienceravenclaw New Member

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    I closed the doors with the button but the Tube is still not moving and the red box does not disappear.
     
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  15. Merrin

    Merrin New Member

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    There is indeed - though I think it's rather brief on detail:

    Train Sim World 2 - Quick Start Guide EN.pdf (storage.googleapis.com)
     
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  16. RotorHed

    RotorHed Member

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    Yeah I think I’d seen that.

    But for support to say read the manual if that’s what they’re referring to is silly.

    There’s obviously something unexpected going on here after so many people reported it....
     
  17. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I'll have to test further, but I am increasingly starting to think that the problem is the dead-man's handle (never even mentioned in the manual or tutorial!). That beeping, like an alerter alarm, has to be dealt with promptly or you get a shutdown.

    This would also explain why it happens to some players and not others: if you come screaming into the station and slam on full brakes, it isn't an issue. But if, like me, you like to "feather" the stop, pulling back to Brake 1, then the DMH pops up and the beeper sounds.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2021
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  18. RotorHed

    RotorHed Member

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    It could be related. One suggestion I have is take a look at the offside back wall controls.

    There’s a compressor switch, an EP cut out/in and a control governor cut in/out. The governor and the compressor control the Main Reservoir (MR) pressure.

    When you get this problem and the MR is low pressure (4.4 or less), try toggling the governor switch from out to in. Maybe the compressor switch too. They take a moment to actually pressurise the MR so wait a few seconds before concluding they are ineffective.

    I haven’t had the problem happen for a while now so I can’t test the scenario, but flicking those controls does affect whether the MR reservoir recharges with pressure under normal situations.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2021
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  19. A Big Chungus

    A Big Chungus Active Member

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    MR is Main Reservoir. I believe it is due to mishandling of the brakes, that if you feather them you deplete the main reservoir gauge below the brake pressure, which then drains them both completely. That's why at a station you need to just apply one brake, and the main Reservoir should recharge at most stations.

    I did notice though that you have to do this in one run. If I was to load a save, the brakes would not charge at any station, so you must complete each service in one session.
     
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  20. RotorHed

    RotorHed Member

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    You don’t have to be at station for them to charge - when the pressure gets to 4.9 indicated, they’ll pressure up again to about 5.9 whether station or running.

    Whatever the fault (that could be software fault or an operator error - still not clear) is, it lets the pressure reduce below that 4.9 all the way down to 4.4 which triggers a brake if underway and won’t respond to power demand subsequently. Could be related to saving but some other people said they got it without a save...

    I’ve be completed quite a few runs deliberately saving to try and trigger the problem - no luck. But all the times I’ve actually had it I was saving too - seems like a timing problem. Save at the right moment and maybe that causes this problem. I’m not convinced it’s anything to do with brake technique - I’ve feathered, spammed 1 and 2, 1 and release and tried to abuse the braking and can’t get it to drop below 4.9 doing this.

    There’s some other effect causing it. It could be a properly simulated feature - maybe the compressor and/or governor fail or deactivate in certain circumstances but if that’s the case DTG need to give us a clue because I haven’t found any detailed operation guides and no other TSW locos seem to have mechanical failures modelled.
     
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  21. A Big Chungus

    A Big Chungus Active Member

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    It really is weird isn't it how we've had different experiences with this problem. As I say in my experience and when testing, feathering the brakes causes it, and reloading save games causes it, but for others it's different! For me the MR only charges when stopped, but for you it charges when it gets to 4.9! I've had it drop and drop to 4.6, then eventually at a station it decided to recharge to 6.1!
     
  22. RotorHed

    RotorHed Member

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    Yeah for me the MR decrements by 0.1 about every 5 seconds while using brake 1 - whether stationary or moving. When it gets to 4.9 it triggers a pressurisation to about 6 (however by fiddling with the compressor and governor switch I managed to make it go to at least 11 - Max on the gauge). As far as I can tell that is working as intended - the real unit uses a compressor and governor to top up pressure.

    There are other things which can affect it though.

    Pressing the Overload trip test on the left vertical panel removes all power. Has to be reset to allow power to be applied. So some people could be fiddling with that and getting no response.

    Then there’s the compressor switch which, if turned off bleeds the MR pressure with each brake application until the unit shuts down and won’t move. So maybe some people are fiddling with that and causing the problem.

    The there’s the deadman handle and whether that being activated and deactivated while smooth braking with Rheo 1 can causes a lock to happen ... maybe although I don’t feel like I brake particularly smoothly. I usually go to at least 3 for most stations then jump off the brake around 20mph and use 1 and 2 to stop on target.

    Yet other people get a persistent red box on the brake/power indicator box. I had that too but always associated with going to emergency brake and that’s usually after having already lost power control to try and unlock the problem.

    Oh and there are interlocks on the windows so if a window is opened and the interlock is engaged the train won’t budge ... some people had that.

    The times I’ve had it unrecoverable power down I’ve been using saves. But now I deliberately save at every station or between stations and I can’t get the fault to recur....

    So to me, the issue I had must be some kind of timing or contention problem if it really is save related. It can’t be repeated with a simple set of steps - the right conditions that cause it must be present.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2021
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  23. ethan#3478

    ethan#3478 Member

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    Im not getting this bug the tain is third rail if you stop on a for example a junction or stop where the third rail and changes side and they is a small gap of no third rail you trail will not move as it will not have power it cant play because the train clipping through the platform is very annoying
     
  24. ethan#3478

    ethan#3478 Member

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    The bakerloo line is powered by a third rail, may have have noticed that when crossing a junction you do not have a any power. You also may notice that when the third rail switches sides of the track, sometimes there is a a gap of no third rail and if stop on this gap you will not have power. Did you open the window? If so on the 1972 stock it will cut your power until you close it again. Personally i I don't get this bug but i have seen alot of people say they have had this in the forum
     
  25. RotorHed

    RotorHed Member

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    This isn’t the problem.
     
  26. ethan#3478

    ethan#3478 Member

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    Yeah they took a while to respond to my ticket as well
     
  27. A Big Chungus

    A Big Chungus Active Member

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    That isn't the issue, the issue seems to vary depending on the user, but for me it was feathering the brakes that caused it. Once I stopped I have been able to complete every service so far.
     
  28. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I agree. The issue apparently is the deadman handle- which pops into "off" if the controller is at Brake 1 when stopped (and when feathering a stop, 1 is where I usually wind up). You can prevent this either by making sure you are at 2 or higher when stopping, or as soon as stopped going to 2, or pushing the handle back down when it beeps with the Q key, just like the Alerter.

    But NONE of this is in the manual or tutorial.
     
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  29. Merrin

    Merrin New Member

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    So, is that a bug? Should it happen?
     
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  30. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Technically, I suppose it is "operator error," but an inquest would also find "failure adequately to train" as a contributing cause.
     
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  31. A Big Chungus

    A Big Chungus Active Member

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    Exactly! The tutorial in game pretty much just tells you how to stop and start the train. It leaves out about the safety features and other bits, so it's hard to know how to operate the train correctly without researching.
     
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  32. Merrin

    Merrin New Member

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    And how do you resolve the problem, if it has occurred?
     
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  33. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Now that's a good one. Haven't figured out how to recover, just stop it happening in the first place.
     
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  34. RotorHed

    RotorHed Member

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    As far as anyone seems to have found there is no solution.

    Restart the route from scratch and try again hoping it doesn’t happen.

    It’s a poor situation. I have a save right now where the fault happens 100% of the time at the same point on the track.

    But I redid the route without saving and no problem. The way you brake or the deadman handle usage seems to make no difference as far as I’ve found.

    The only connecting feature is use of game save states. Even then I saw someone say they got it without having saved - but there are other things that can cause a similar effect - windows, doors, pressing various things in the cab for example.I think that’s why this thread and other like it have different reports.
     
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  35. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I have had it multiple times without saving - and I never open the window (too bloody noisy)
     
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  36. RotorHed

    RotorHed Member

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    Really? Well I’m at a loss then

    Do you have a video or something of when happens?

    I’ve got some captures - I’ll try and get them onto YouTube. If we can compare that might shed some light.
     
  37. jasonhaigneylim

    jasonhaigneylim Member

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    Why haven't DTG addressed this thread? I mean obviously it's an issue. If it's user error they could at least tell us what we are doing wrong.
     
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  38. RotorHed

    RotorHed Member

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    They can’t repeat it. So they just said no fault found.

    I’ve been trying to find a set of steps to cause the problem reliably but so far nothing. Just ideas ...
     
  39. jasonhaigneylim

    jasonhaigneylim Member

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    When I get this issue, to me it seems like the loco thinks the doors have been opened after stopping when they have not. Or I'm completely wrong :D
     
  40. jasonhaigneylim

    jasonhaigneylim Member

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    Also got my reply back to the ticket saying to refer to the manual. FFS the manual doesn't even say anything about braking. And for those people that are new to TSW the TSW2 manual is a sorry excuse for a manual. No wonder so many new players get stuck on SPG. :mad:
     
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  41. RotorHed

    RotorHed Member

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    OK so here are links to videos showing the fault as I get it... See if it's similar to what you guys see.

    So these videos are taken going from Wembley to Stonebridge Pk on PS5 - I've driven this route with no problems subsequently so it's not something special about this bit of track. The route is in the Journies for bakerloo - its the 3rd journey in the 3rd set of journeys. Can't remember the service code.

    First Video is a "normal" run - it starts from Wembley (which is about stop 5 on the service), and brake 3 into Stonebridge. Watch from about 2:27 and you'll see the braking phase.

    Arriving at the platform the MR pressure drops below 4.9 and doesn't recharge as it should. I wait for it to drop well into the 4.4 range and then no power. I do a little fly around to show nothing weird on the controls and outside the train has a power rail available.




    Second video is using same save point and scenario. In this one I drive to 744yds from the stop point. Stop on track, I flick between brake 1 and 2 to exercise the Deadman handle, let the MR pressure drop to 4.9 it recharges as it should. This is expected behavior.

    I then drive 100 yds further down the track - 638yds from stop point - again flick the brake between 1 and 2 and let the pressure drop to 4.9 and it doesn't recharge. This is unexpected behaviour. I then drive - the train still has power at this point. Stop again, let the pressure drop to 4.4 and below and then there's no power.

    Finally I look around the cabin to show normal control positions and a fly around outside to show power rail available.



    From this save point this is repeatable 100% of the time. Braking technique, speed or anything else makes no difference - after getting to less than 700yds from Stonebridge, the train stops recharging the MR and when it finally gets below 4.4 the power is lost.

    EDIT: I should point out here in my opinion the unexpected behavior is the MR doesn't recharge and it seems to occur unpredictably and not in response to user input. I've only had this problem after using a save state.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2021
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  42. A Big Chungus

    A Big Chungus Active Member

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    Do a test, where you apply just brake setting 3. This is what fixed it for me. Literally when it comes to a station, just put on brake 3. For me, continually shifting through brakes is what killed it. And if you hear three beeps, check if the deadmans handle is raised, and if so lower it. And in my sessions, if I reload a save, then the MR will never recharge period. I can repeat this every time if I reload, it will never recharge.

    Ever since I applied just brake 3 (no feathering or changing brake settings to adjust my final position, literally just obeying the speed limit, knowing stopping distances, then cycling straight down to brake notch 3 to come to a stop) and completing timetables in one run, I've been able to complete every one without fail. However it is when I cycle through brakes whilst trying to stop, or if I reload a save, that every single time the MR gauge will not recharge after a certain point.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2021
  43. RotorHed

    RotorHed Member

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    That's what I did in vid 1 ...
     
  44. A Big Chungus

    A Big Chungus Active Member

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    No, you dropped to 4, then up to 3, then 2 to stop. This is what I used to do, and this always happened to me. You literally need to just put it, and keep it on, notch three till you stop. This completely fixed it for me.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2021
  45. Merrin

    Merrin New Member

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    But, should it work that way or is that a bug?
     
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  46. RotorHed

    RotorHed Member

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    Well you have to go via 1 & 2 to get to 3.

    There are 7 braking stages - are you seriously suggesting that a person should only use 1? That would be a major bug. I personally cannot call that a product working as intended which is the point of this thread.

    But anyway, your suggestion makes no difference in my save.

    Please go ahead and capture the problem for yourself with your solution though and post it. Until there is enough information for the developers this won’t get fixed.
     
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  47. A Big Chungus

    A Big Chungus Active Member

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    In your video you go down to four, before then increasing to three, then up to two. On my game when I did this it absolutely kills the MR gauge. I had to literally judge the stopping distance then cycle down straight to brake 3 and keep it on that. Then when it's time to go I would, and then at maybe every second station the gauge would recharge. But not at every station, which might be a bug in itself?

    When I used just one brake setting, it drained the MR so slow it never got the chance to drop below five. It is a major bug in the game as what is the point of having all these brakes if they cause the train to die? Sometimes I overshoot a little or come up short, but the minute I cycle through the brakes once I've applied them, the glitch happens. I wondered if you had to stop on a specific point to recharge the gauge, but in one session I completely overshot the station and the gauge recharged, then at the next, I landed dead on the marker and they didn't!
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2021
  48. RotorHed

    RotorHed Member

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    I think you’re looking for a workaround. That’s fine - but I want the problem fixed so I’m looking for ways to induce it on purpose so it can be fixed.

    Unfortunately the workaround you suggested doesn’t work as I pointed out already. The fault is that the MR doesn’t recharge and the fault is unpredictable - using brake 3 doesn’t avoid it.

    (details in the YouTube description)

     
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  49. A Big Chungus

    A Big Chungus Active Member

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    Very strange, very strange. Surely just because I'm playing on a Series X doesn't mean my brake workaround works? Otherwise we're getting into console specific bugs!
     
  50. RotorHed

    RotorHed Member

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    Ok well on that point I transferred my save to my PS4 Pro and it has the same problem there. No surprise I guess - the PS5 is just running the PS4 Pro version in BC mode.
     

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