Ps5 Add On Manager

Discussion in 'Train Sim World Discussion' started by whitey#4272, Nov 27, 2022.

  1. whitey#4272

    whitey#4272 Member

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    Some really interesting comments from everyone here, especially about releasing TSW3 without fixing this first.
    What's so obvious is the sheer amount of frustration we all feel with the amount of time it's taking to solve this issue. Instead, new add ons are released and promises to PS5 users just keep slipping by.

    It's been over a year that we've been putting up with this for goodness sake!

    My choice has been not to buy any further routes or locos until this whole issue is fixed, I mean, what's the utter point when you can't use them all together?

    My choice might be a minute inconvenience to DTG but if enough people think the same, this might just get fixed a whole lot sooner...
     
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  2. Jackson17

    Jackson17 Member

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    Think it's getting to a point now where Sony should refund for all the dlc people have brought for tsw.

    I'm so tired now of the same thing being said every month and with the attitude of it will be fixed when it's fixed.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2022
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  3. appleerwin

    appleerwin Member

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    As long as the other platforms are not affected by this problem, it will never get the attention it deserves. They fixed the save issue quite quickly recently just because all platforms complained. I too want this problem resolved quickly as it's starting to get quite annoying but I'm afraid it might take a while.
    It would be nice if DTG would make a gesture to the PS community: one new track for free? I think we deserve it, since we have to deal with this problem for over a year now.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2022
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  4. whitey#4272

    whitey#4272 Member

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    Well said, a gesture like that would certainly help the PS community.
     
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  5. mattchester#9176

    mattchester#9176 Well-Known Member

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    To me the biggest issue is the lack of openness when TSW3 was released. Although it seems incredulous to me that TSW3 was not designed with Addon Manager included I am willing to concede there might be valid software engineering reasons why this couldn't happen.

    The August Roadmap (Where both TSW3, and the release of Addon Manager was announced) stated

    Providing all is well, it should be released on Train Sim World 3, and on PC for Train Sim World 2 soon after.

    The definition of the word soon is key here, and personally I feel this is being stretched beyond any reasonable understanding of the word.

    If they had said "it's being released on TSW2 now but you'll need to wait a few months if you choose to buy TSW3", at least we could have made an informed choice.

    As it is I, perhaps naively, assumed "soon" meant a couple of weeks, so purchased TSW3 and ported my progress to it. This meant I had no option but to play on TSW3 and thus have now had to wait even longer.

    Ironically, buying the deluxe edition of TSW3 completed my DLC collection so I became the hardest hit by the 64GB limit. I have not, and will not, buy any further DLC until the issue is resolved in TSW3 though.

    I appreciate this is a complex issue and the fix takes time, but we need more of an update than simply the, "work is in progress, hopefully it will enter testing soon, no release date yet" updates we have been given since TSW3 released!
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2022
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  6. Mikey_9835

    Mikey_9835 Well-Known Member

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    Personally I think it should've been all hands on deck on this issue as soon as this was discovered. This issue was discovered when the PS5 version of TSW 2 released alongside Rush Hour during the summer of 2021 and still hasn't been resolved properly and probably won't before the new year.

    Bremen Oldenburg seems like a great route but like most other German routes it uses a lot of stock from other routes which means to get the full experience you need those add ons installed so you have to reshuffle your DLCs yet again and I'm just sick of doing it to be honest.

    I also have to question why DTG chose to not make the TSW 3 routes included with the standard edition part of the core game, it just adds to the 64GB limit and its so unnecessary.
     
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  7. Jackson17

    Jackson17 Member

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    Yeah making the core routes as add ons has just added to the issue big time. The German route is 10 GB alone.

    The length of time this fix is taking is unacceptable now and think it's time Sony refunded and maybe even remove the game from the store until it's fixed. Then maybe DTG will release the fix a bit quicker because it won't be until the new year now
     
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  8. Stephen Crofts

    Stephen Crofts Well-Known Member

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    Soon
    It’s about to enter testing
    It’s on the list

    We’re at a stage where phrasing is beginning to get important.

    And although it’s a given that Tsw3 has a very different (and still slightly buggy) menu system. As the tech for add on manager was developed and tsw2 menu screens were being worked on dtg already knew tsw3 was being worked on. Even releasing tsw3 without the menu system plugged in to the add on manager, you would have thought it would be prudent to have a draft build twinned alongside tsw2’s version so the go button could be pressed as soon as they knew the tsw2 version was working.

    A year and a half is a long time for what is a critical issue. And I just hope that when it is finally out dtg don’t patronise us with some glossy article and self-praise because it really would be misplaced.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2022
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  9. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

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    Personally I don't think that's the reason because at the end of the day more people will be upgrading to a PS5 so it a job they would have had to do eventually. I think its just the one dedicated engineer assigned to it that's taken it this long. Remember this has had to be discussed, designed and then programmed from the ground up. Yes it is so frustrating but I think to be honest it is a big job what they (or the one engineer) is doing. That is creating a system from the ground up that mounts only your DLC you have related to the route you are using. I think the two things that annoyed the hell out of me is the fact One engineer assigned to the job and the fact they were testing it on the Xbox . I would love to see it before Christmas but that doesn't look like its going to happen. So its probably another month or two for a release window. its annoying as hell to be honest.

    Was it me that came up with TrainSim Tetris or was it JD?
    They can understand our frustration and to be honest I think they will be glad when it is released.

    Personally it hasn't really affected me until TSW 3 was released. Because,and I would like to know the reason as releasing the three core routes for TSW 3 as separate* routes instead of part of the core, I haven't even been able to put the same amount of DLC into TSW 3 as I had in TSW2. Now because of the problems with the PS4 I can no longer download new content to the PS4 because of the 50 DLC (total of items not size) limit that looks to be affecting the PS4. Also added the fact that the PS4 version of TSW you cannot uninstall DLC in TSW3 (or any PS4 title for that matter) then that make matters worse. Much tot he fact that if I were to uninstall TSW 3 then put routes on that I like I would practically be there a good number of hours not downloading but cancelling the DLC that will be trying to install for the PS5 version of TSW 3 that it downloads systematically. So currently any new routes will either be going on the PS4 Pro (I have installed all UK / DE routes and rolling stock). So thankfully I have the PS4 pro or series X to fall back on but others dont and they either have just the PS4 and PS5.


    I guess all the PS5 users want for xmas is the DLC manager?

    Hentis
     
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  10. Dinger75

    Dinger75 Well-Known Member

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    I think we all know that ain't happening. They have made it very clear that they don't value our custome and the fact that they continue to sell a defective product on anyone who doesn't know of the issue yet says alot

    Besides if they did do anything I would prefer haptic feedback and adaptive trigger implementation. Just imagine different pulses as you go through the power ranges. Maybe using 2/3rds of the adaptive trigger to go through braking settings before it stiffens up just before pushing through to go straight into the emergency brake

    But again thats a dream reserved for developers with imagination, so we are out of luck. We just get Matt who now only comes onto the PS boards to flog MS consoles (yeah that happened)
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2022
  11. Jackson17

    Jackson17 Member

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    That's unbelievable. I think Sony really should remove the game from the store until it's working like with Cyberpunk. That would send out a message. Don't know about anyone else but to me I feel like DTG are passing all the blame to Sony. Yes they ARE the ones who placed the limit but I find it hard to believe that they done it over night and no one knew about the limit.

    They fixed save game quick enough which doesn't stop people playing dlc which they have paid for, so why not this?

    And I don't want to sound like I'm hating on anyone I just wanna fully enjoy a game I love and think DTG actually do a good job with tsw. Just in this case I like others feel let down by them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2022
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  12. Dinger75

    Dinger75 Well-Known Member

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    We already know what happened as Matt came clean on it. Sony did send the documentation (probably with the initial PS5 dev kit but that's just a guess) which said about the DLC limit and when it was going to be implemented. DTG though didn't read the document fully for unknown reasons so completely missed it
     
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  13. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Well-Known Member

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    How long have we been waiting for this now on PS5, yet they have the time to release new routes. Genuinely believe DTG don't care anymore
     
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  14. mattchester#9176

    mattchester#9176 Well-Known Member

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    Their logic seems to be, assign the majority of staff to making DLC as this obviously brings in the cash.

    As the Add On Manager won't directly bring in any revenue they've only assigned a team of one or two. The problem is this is possibly very short sighted as although no one is going to choose to buy the game as soon as Addon Manager is included, a lot of users will either pause or stop buying DLC altogether because of the delay. The problem is the is an unmeasurable and often hidden loss of potential profit.

    If feel this is the case with a lot of long standing bugs with the game and has been for a long time.

    Of course there is always a trade off between adding new content (hoping this will entice new users into the game) to make money verses fixing issue to keep players (that will hopefully buy the DLC you are making). The problem is I think this is currently far too heavily weighted in favor of making new content.

    I'm ever hopefully that increased competition in the Train Simulation genre might forse a re-evaluation of this policy, but for now we're powerless to do anything except either stop buying DLC or simply accept it.
     
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  15. FallenAngel00me

    FallenAngel00me Active Member

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    If DTG could get away with charging ps5 users for the add on manager, it would have been sorted so much quicker
     
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  16. DXR8002

    DXR8002 Well-Known Member

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    For the record, I've made an official complaint to Sony regarding this with the view to getting TSW3 removed from the store, have also laid a complaint with trading standards, will post updates as they come.
     
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  17. Jackson17

    Jackson17 Member

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    The best way to fix it surely must be to load all locomotives into the core so we can enjoy layers without the route being installed. This should also allow off the rails to work.
     
  18. ApollonJustice

    ApollonJustice Member

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    For sure!
     
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  19. Mikey_9835

    Mikey_9835 Well-Known Member

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    Well I think that's a stretch too far, I don't want the game to get removed from the store because nobody wins in that scenario. I just want to play the content I paid for.
     
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  20. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    This is on Sony for not conforming to industry standards, DTG are doing what they can to work around Sony's unreasonable restrictions, but there's not a way to suddenly change how a several year old game handles its content loading overnight to conform to some baffling restriction that exists nowhere else.
     
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  21. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    So you want it removed so those of us that are playing it can't anymore? Thanks for that.

    Fortunately the chances of Sony listening to you are practically zero. I want it released as well and I want it released correctly but it's not even in the same league as the issues with Cyberpunk. That game was unplayable. TSW3 is not, it just has a limit.

    As for the comments about not having enough people working on it. That's not always how software works. Sometimes the main development has to be done by a key person. It's not like routes where a lot of people can be working on different assets.

    I'm frustrated as well, I expected this with TSW3. So much so that I've started buying software (not just DTG) on XBOX / PC instead - Playstation has just not been a good experience for me and I regret buying it. But I'm trying to look on the positive side. The TSW2 Release was not so bad - I raised a few tickets for missing / badly behaving DLC. But they were all resolved quickly and it's been working fine since (I don't use Creators Club, so can't comment on how that works).

    I'm feeling a bit disillusioned with TSW3 as a whole at the moment. Too many routes I like are still broken, so am taking a bit of a break from it to play other stuff. Hopefully this particular issue is resolved when I come back.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2022
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  22. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    Delisting just means nobody can buy it. We could all still play it.
    But in this instance it would basically mean Sony strongarming DTG into making the core TSW3 install on PS5 200GB to get it back on there or make no money on the platform until however long it takes to find a workaround. Nobody wins in that scenario
     
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  23. Jackson17

    Jackson17 Member

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    There should definitely be a warning on the store page so people are aware of it. Atm it seems DTG are helping for people to keep on buying dlc which they probably can't play without a lot of work.

    The core issue for me would work if it was done like mass effect where you can choose what routes to download in game and it adds it to the core.
     
  24. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

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    Well that was a dumbass thing todo!
     
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  25. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    Easier said than done, unfortunately.
     
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  26. mortal1234

    mortal1234 Member

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    God forbid this happens again when TSW4 decides to come along. Makes me wish I bought an Xbox instead haha.

    The fix will come. Hopefully not too long though as I want to buy the new routes but haven’t bothered yet until this gets patched.
     
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  27. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    An extreme response and unlikely to be helpful in any way. DTG and Sony have been working together to find the solution to this and they will understand that it will take time to implement in TSW3 which has different code to TSW2 in places. TSW2 had this problem for much longer than TSW3 has had it, so Sony aren’t going to take it off the store. Trading Standards will probably just laugh.
     
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  28. Stephen Crofts

    Stephen Crofts Well-Known Member

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    Thing is as new routes come along with shinier bells than their predecessors the older still as yet unbought new routes lose a bit of their lustre and may end up not being bought at all, so the issue is going to affect dtg’s ps income.
     
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  29. mattchester#9176

    mattchester#9176 Well-Known Member

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    Whilst I agree with your main point, I think it's worth noting that whilst it was Sony's change that affected TSW2, DTG made a choice to release TSW3 without including the soluyion for this issue, knowing it would be months before they could provide a fix and not coming clean at the time.
     
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  30. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    They can’t just stop everything they do and only continue when this one issue on one platform is sorted. They could of course have released TSW3 on all other platforms and not released it for PS5, the only affected platform they knew of at the time, but I don’t think that would have gone down too well. There really hasn’t been much of an option for DTG other than what they are doing, The issue started in TSW2 and the fix eventually came for that title, which was a bit late but has turned out as a good test bed for the same fix in TSW3, which has to be a bit different due to the new UI.

    Development isn’t linear as we see it come out, all projects start way back and are developed side by side. TSW3 was always going to come out as the summer release, that would have been decided well before the DLC limit was even known about. The fix for the DLC limit on TSW2 had to be developed alongside that and the release just happened to coincide with the release of TSW3 because of how long it took. If the fix for TSW2 had taken half the time then the fix would have been in TSW3 at release but it didn’t, so we are left with what we have now. DTG haven’t planned for it take as long as it has, it is just how it has turned out, and it was never realistically going to delay the release of TSW3 seeing as it only affects some players. If TSW3 had been held back for everyone, what would we be saying now and how would DTG be making any money? It was never going to happen that way.
     
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  31. goochdog#5870

    goochdog#5870 Well-Known Member

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    Hmm the thing is , that we were unaware of TSW 3s existence until just before it was released . We were told that priority was 100% on fixing things like the preservation stuff (and I assume the save problems and add on manager )and that was what was happening. No one would have been any the wiser if all the back dated stuff was fixed (as promised) before 3 was released . Ergo we would not be in this position now
     
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  32. mattchester#9176

    mattchester#9176 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think for one minute that DTG actually wanted to release TSW3 with Add On manager included, my guess is they painted themselves into a corner due to a combination of the limited resources they decided / were forced to allocate to the fix since the problem was discovered and the financial forecast preventing them from moving the release of TSW3.

    Neither of these (or other) commercial realities changes the fact that as player I still can't play all my DLC on my supported platform of choice. Also the community still doesn't have even an estimation (other than "soon") of when those loyal customers who chose to support TSW3 will be given a fix.

    My original estimation of March doesn't feel so ridiculous now does it?
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2022
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  33. Lenwigg

    Lenwigg Well-Known Member

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    As long as you don't say what March it doesn't ridiculous at all.
     
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  34. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    We would all be wondering why there hadn’t been any content released since the last TSW2 DLC release though. And that includes all the players that don’t play on PS5, a sizeable customer base with no new content to buy and no new version of TSW until the new year, with all the routes that DTG have made for it just waiting to be released. DLC would still have to be produced to give the rest of DTG’s staff something to work on while waiting for the engineers to finish this one fix before TSW3 and its content could be released. Then you have the marketing team twiddling their thumbs while having nothing to market. There would be rumours that DTG were abandoning TSW as nothing had been released for months on end and no yearly release bundle appeared. It makes absolutely no sense for them to do nothing while waiting for the fix to the DLC limit, and due to the nature of the issue, other staff wouldn’t be much use in fixing it.

    Just to clear something else up, we were never told that the priority was 100% fixing things. We were told there was a bit of a lull in in-house route building and that time would be used for addressing some issues mainly in the core and in Rush Hour routes onwards. The Pres Crew stuff was already mostly completed and just waiting for QA time. Lots of people thought that meant all the bugs would be fixed but in reality that was never going to be the case.

    TSW3 had to come out because the future of TSW depended on it and it’s unfortunate for us that the Add-on Manager wasn’t in a position to be included, but there is absolutely no way they would have waited until it was, whether we knew about TSW3 or not. It’s a bit of a mess but DTG just don’t have enough people who can rewrite the parts of the game to fix the issue, so business goes on regardless, as the small team of one and occasionally two engineers work on the issue.
     
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  35. simongilford

    simongilford Well-Known Member

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    The fact it's taking so long leads me to think that there are signficant technical challenges to make this work on PS5.

    I'm not holding my breath for the solution any time soon.
     
  36. pveezy

    pveezy Well-Known Member

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    And at the end of the day do we want it to be released broken? I say no…

    DLC Tetris sucks but at least you know what you install will appear in the game as long as you keep it below the 64. What will be terrible is if the DLC manager makes layers or locos not show up and there will be nothing we can do about it other than submit a ticket that may or may not get addressed. I think TSW2 with manager is still facing these bugs with no patch months on…

    We are almost at the point where the DLC management is completely required though. Currently DLC juggling is annoying but manageable. But soon we will be at the point where just the German add ons alone will hit 64gb. I think we are only maybe 2 or 3 German DLCs before the point where you can’t install them all without breaking the limit. And since you basically need all of them to get complete substitutions and layers then it means you’re removing content across multiple routes by deleting any single one of them. If we hit that point without fixing the DLC issue I think I’ll just take a break from this game.

    I would just ditch the PS5 and switch to another platform but considering I own probably over $1000 in DLC at this point that’s tied to PS that is not feasible. Buying a Xbox Series X would not be the end of the world but then spending another $1000 on software I already own is too much to swallow. The irony here is that the limit mostly hits people who spend literally hundreds of dollars on DTG content so you’d think they’d be working overtime to not lose those customers?
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2022
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  37. robertatkendal

    robertatkendal Member

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    I'm in a position where I own every dlc on PS5. My kids have an Xbox Series S. I'm considering making the move across but it's too expensive to build up that library again.

    For those PS5 users affected, a nice gesture (for those with different consoles) would be keys for the same games/dlc on PC or Xbox if users have the wish to do that, obviously with the deletion of the keys on PS5. Technically they're not losing as they're not giving anything away that you don't already own.
    Sadly though this doesn't help those who only have Sony devices.

    It's getting ridiculous now.
     
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  38. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    That hasn’t been my experience. All UK and German DLC and about half the US ones and it’s working fine.
    There were some problems with New Journeys (Resolved) and one of my DLC’s disappeared (DTG gave me a new code and it came back).

    I haven’t tried Creators Club, so no idea how that’s going. But I have all my DLC loaded and can play what I like. What’s more, because the last preserved collection update hasn’t been done on TSW2, the routes I like are less broken.

    On PS5, TSW2 is in a better state than TSW3 for me.
     
  39. ApollonJustice

    ApollonJustice Member

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    Yes, like someone like me.
    It IS riddiculous, that thís limit exists at all.
     
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  40. Jackson17

    Jackson17 Member

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    Hopefully we get a better update Thursday.
     
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  41. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Well-Known Member

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    It would be better to vote with our wallets and veto all forthcoming DLC until this mess is resolved
     
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  42. DXR8002

    DXR8002 Well-Known Member

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    Usual shills out in force again I see. It should absolutely be removed from the store, DTG continue to sell DLC that is not usable without so much as a warning for the consumer, hence the new users always posting here asking why they can't access routes. And again, DTG are at fault for not knowing Sonys policy, as pathetic as it is, but tell me, why has no other developer on Earth had this issue? Because they integrate dlc into the core game files to circumvent this, or don't continuously release endless dlc to fleece the consumer. Personally I've stopped buying any new routes and have deleted TSW3 until its resolved, so to answer the posts above, I am voting with my wallet.
     
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  43. Jackson17

    Jackson17 Member

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    We just need a proper update now from DTG including a time window for release
     
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  44. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    Frontier recently did this with Elite: Dangerous. Gave every XBox and PS5 owner a free copy of the game on PC with a copy of their player data from PS or XBox, when they announced they'd not be continuing to release new game content on those platforms.
     
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  45. OnlyMe1909

    OnlyMe1909 Well-Known Member

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    Nice gesture, but a lot of good it does if one does not have the money to buy a gaming pc heavy enough to able to run it...
     
  46. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    I think the key part of that is 'providing all is well' - we launched the TSW2 version just before TSW3 was released. There were a few issues with the release (some content missing, etc.), which have been documented above, and we've had to take a look at how we've put the infrastructure together as a result to ensure this doesn't happen with the TSW3 release. We believe the majority of these are now resolved, which puts us in a good position for TSW3 now.

    (there has been a lot of work going on for the TSW3 version, but to add a little context on why there's been a delay between the two releases). We don't want to provide a release date before testing has completed, due to the complexities involved.

    Just wanted to whizz this in from the November Roadmap as well, which might provide a little extra:


    Add-ons Manager

    Testing will start on the TSW3 version of Add-ons Manager soon. It has taken longer than we would have wanted, and this is due to a number of factors. The team remain committed to getting it into your hands as soon as we can, as we know PS5 players are playing Add-on Tetris at the moment and aren’t able to get the full experience we want.

    In short: the infrastructure for Add-ons Manager can be ported directly from Train Sim World 2’s version of Add-ons Manager (which is why we wanted to make sure we got that out in full first), but there is an extra body of work which will map that to the new TSW3 UI – particularly the new menu screens you see not present within TSW2. That is currently being completed before being sent through to our QA and beta teams to review. We know this has been said a lot, but thank you for your continued patience.

    As a side note, as we are using the same infrastructure, all mods that currently work since TSW2’s Add-ons update should work within TSW3’s version of Add-ons Manager.


    For absolute transparency, I would say it's very unlikely to come this side of Christmas.
     
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  47. Dinger75

    Dinger75 Well-Known Member

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    In short....

    We have your money so we couldn't care a less. Please see recycled PR BS that we put out once in a while hoping it will shut you all up.
     
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  48. mattchester#9176

    mattchester#9176 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the response DTG JD

    The November Roadmap certainly provided some useful information and clarification regarding the process of releasing Add Ons Managed for TSw3 and the amount of work still left to do.

    Unfortunately, coming several weeks after the release of TSW3 I wasn't able to use this information to inform my decision whether to buy the new game or wait for Add On Manager to be released for it first.

    I think most, if not all, the posters to this thread had already come to this conclusion. We need to know when it will be released, not when it won't.

    I appreciate all the hard work and time that has gone into developing and testing the system so far but it's very difficult to stay patient when updates are so generic, devoid of any specific information.
     
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  49. steveownzzz#6107

    steveownzzz#6107 Active Member

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    Tbqh I would jump to Series X in a heartbeat if I was able to have all of my tsw dlc brought over.
    I only got PS5 to play w/friends on playstation, but now that everything I play is crossplat, there's no reason for me to stick with PS.
     
  50. SBos

    SBos Well-Known Member

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    And there we have it you won’t see it until next year.

    The team are working on it he says, well for the most part the team consists of one.

    Still no warning on TSW3 or any of the new routes about the issue.

    Testing will start soon he says same message as we have heard for months.

    Bottom line is their not interested in PS5 users as there isn’t enough to worry about. Much better spending your time throwing out new routes that the majority can use.
     
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