Xbox Series X Psa: A Dire Lack Of Mountains On Xsx

The other day in the Rosenheim-Salzburg feedback thread I posted a screenshot of the lack of mountains visible at Freilassing on Xbox Series X, and to my surprise it appeared that even on PS5, there are more visible mountains, thanks to CK95's screenshot at the same spot. That really got to me! Could it be that on XSX, the top-grade Xbox, users get shafted regarding the visible terrain, compared to what should be an equal competitor, the PS5? As someone who loves mountains, this is quite a dealbreaker to me.

Channeling Digital Foundry, I debated getting the PS5 version to compare, but then remembered I already bought the PC version on a whim last September, mainly to try out on the Steam Deck. Turns out my laptop can run TSW4 quite decently, so I made some comparison screenshots. You can find them attached to this thread, so you can make up your own mind.

But the screenshots don't tell the whole story, really. When driving in Vorarlberg on XSX, complete mountains pop up ahead of you out of nowhere, and not the backdrop ones that - on PC - are visible way off in the distance (because those aren't there at all on XSX), but the ones you are really close to. When you turn the corner, so to speak, after Feldkirch and drive towards Bludenz, it's like you're in the Netherlands when looking straight ahead. At Bludenz, you can see the mountains that are closeby, thankfully. But they are not as numerous or nice-looking as on PC, and as soon as you drive off westward and look back, they will disappear quite quickly. At Lustenau, looking towards Switzerland, there are some lower mountains to the right on XSX, but the rest of it is flat, while on PC you can see the Swiss Alps on the left, in the distance. In fact, when you drive from Lustenau back towards Bregenz, you will not see any mountains directly in front of you until you're way past Hard-Fussach, and then it's only some weird, lone escarpment.

On XSX, I never got the feeling I was driving in Austria, but on PC all the more. It's the same on Rosenheim-Salzburg, which on XSX only has the bare necessities when it comes to mountains, especially on the German side of the route. A lot of the time, only the 'cheating' (paraphrasing Matt) mountains are visible, and the lower ones are simply missing.

Of course, it could be that my XSX has some problems, so I'd love to hear from other XSX users.

Meanwhile, I've waved goodbye to the game on Xbox. Had to rebuy all the German/Austrian content in the Steam Spring Sale and cheaper elsewhere, but still, a bit of a 'gulp' moment. The experience on PC has been quite good. It's a whole different game, to me. On my laptop I can get it up to 30-40 fps while still looking quite crisp. As a console peasant, I hooked up my DualShock 4 controller and assigned the SIFA and PZB buttons to the touchpad (which means I no longer have to use the same button to acknowledge SIFA and PZB, pure win), for proper couch gaming. But the best part is I get to enjoy the much improved landscapes.

Heck, even on the Steam Deck the mountains are all present. Sure, it runs at 30 fps at most, but as a portable gamer I love it.

It does make me wonder what happened on Xbox. It looks like DTG favoured FPS over distant scenery, but on mountaineous routes the effect is utterly jarring: hideous mountain pop-up and general lack of mountains. Seeing as the framerate varies from 30 FPS to 60 FPS, I can almost see why. But most of all, why is only XSX affected, and not PS5? Why is there no 'Performance Mode' and 'Quality Mode' on consoles? With the AAA pricing, you would really expect those in a game these days. Makes me wish Digital Foundry would take an interest in this game to do one of their great comparison videos

 

Attaching some more comparison pics

 

And some more

 

theres a simple answer

performance

 

We don't know the exact technical reasons of course, but my impression from watching Mark Cerny's PS5 presentation and also reports of the comparative performance of XSX and PS5, it seems that both were developed with slightly different goals in mind:

• XSX: Maximum computing horsepower.
• PS5: Maximum SSD streaming throughput.

In short: different performance trade-offs between them.

Just speculating, but perhaps the loading of detailed distant scenery on top of what is in the immediate vicinity requires more SSD bandwidth than the XSX has to offer?

 

Could be. It would be great if DTG could shed some light on this.

This thread is also meant as a warning for potential purchasers who own both consoles.

 

I think there is something quite different going on in TSW when it comes to the Series X & PS5 builds.

I’ve noticed the SX version seems to be able to keep the FPS at a smooth 60 much more than the PS5, I wonder if it is because the PS5 is rendering more?

I did see similar complaints for mountain pop in on XSX VBRG, whereas that’s not an issue on PS5.

 

Well there’s the answer I wasn’t expecting, that’s a serious shame.

 

Which is a bit of an odd thing to say because DTG have always insisted that each individual console receives it's own unique optimised version of TSW.
Interestingly, I've also noticed that when you run side by side comparisons on X1X (gen8) and XSX (gen9) draw distances and general visual quality are almost identical, with the only real noticeable difference being a minor FPS reduction on X1X, so that does kind of beggar the question as to whether or not XBox is getting a 'one size fits all' version of the game with like it or lump it levels of performance issues when it comes to the generation difference.

 

So XSX may be running the gen-8 version of the game, the only difference being the FPS and the loading times? Could well be. After all, it's not an 'Optimized for Series X|S' title. I'll install TSW4 on my X1X to see for myself. Would be interesting to know if there are any differences between the PS4(Pro) version and the PS5 version, apart from the loading times.

 

As someone who came from one to the other, there’s a huge difference on PS5.

I think the problem for Xbox is that if DTG are using just one build for XSS & XSX, the comparison will be closer to an X1X, since the XSS isn’t much further ahead of it.

 

Thanks! Aye, it wouldn't be the first game that's held back on XSX because of XSS' limitations :/

 

Thanks for the transparency, JD and Matt. Having invested in the game on Xbox One, it was logical at the time for me to continue playing on Series X, and for a long time, I don't think there were any noticeable differences accross platforms (although having now seen it on PC, even on routes like Dresden-Riesa the distant hills create a much more life-like scene). But now that the game is entering the Alps, the Xbox version is showing its limits.

Good to know DTG are looking for ways to improve the experience on XSX, though. Hopefully that'll work out.

 

So when you've said in the past how 'challenging' it is to build and optimize 13 (or whatever that figure was) different versions of the game (with XSS and XSX listed as separate platforms, may I hasten to add), must we now assume that not to be the case after all?

I suppose the big question is, why does XSX and XSS have to be the same build?
It's certainly not a Microsoft requirement because there are already games out there that have been optimized differently across gen9 platforms, so I can only assume it's a DTG thing.

 

Why can't Xbox users just be able to adjust their own settings in the menu then.

Set it up so there is a return to default settings of DTG' choosing. And if Series S users want to play with the setting they can do so at will. But also Series X can boost up higher if we like as well.

 

Or would there be a way to setup the core to detect RAM. If it detects Series S 10GB the draw distance stays at the default.

If it detects 16GB then the draw distance can be farther.

Or like MSFS and Forza have where you can pick a more visual setting or performance. On Series S they have recommended beside the performance option and series X it shows recommended beside the Visual option. Then there is the full visual option (basically turns ray tracing on) as well on top of that.

As long as the settings can be changed back to recommended if the setting the player choses cause crashes it's not on you that the game crashes. As long as it runs under the recommended ones.

Just throwing thoughts out there, hate to see us held back because of the Series S.

 

Other Xbox games do have features like this. Fernbus Coach Simulator comes to mind along with MSFS and Forza. I don't see why tsw can't have something similar.

I remember a while ago, people were talking about how GEN 8 was holding the game back. I think the Xbox Series S would like to have a word

 

Much appreciated! TSW4 runs so smooth on XSX, it can handle some additional mountains and you've proven to find solutions for platform specific limitations in the past already so feel encouraged to do another pioneering work once again!

 

XSS is choking XSX, the same I experience on the MSFS

 

Bit of a shame as I always thought the series s is a good console open to a wider market, shame as a series x user I have more of a negative view on it now.

 

For Forza and Baldur’s Gate 3 they cut the split-screen modes on XSS only, because it wasn’t feasible there, but they exist in XSX.

So we can only hope that DTG will throw the XSX users a bone and go the extra mile for us.

As for me I’m not spending any more money on the Xbox version, that’s for sure.

 

Just watched a Fife Circle stream from an ambassador and the distant scenery is horrible on Series X

. The Forth bridge pops up when you almost get up to the super structure.

Please fix this DTG. Series X deserves better.

 

I worried this would be the case, big shame it’s came to be true.

 

Looks like this issue is rearing its head on Fife Circle too, some of the bridges don’t render in & the Forth super structure doesnt load at all until you’re already on it.

The view from the bridge shows Forth River as being landlocked, with jagged or harshly cornered coastlines along it.

 

Wow this is a big deal.

I had suspected something was up with the Xbox Series X for a bit. I didn't do any side by side mountain comparisons but I did notice that level of detail seems to drop off faster on it than it does on PS5. But at same time PS5 does run at a bit lower FPS in some situations. This makes sense now knowing that what the Series X is doing is actually running a scaled up Series S build and its not entirely equivalent to the PS5 build.

But then my question is why does this seem to be dealt with by DTG/TSW differently than just about any other game devs? Every dev has the same Series S-X issue but don't seem to need to degrade their Series X game to the point where it looks worse than the PS5. What they all seem to do is just run it at lower resolutions on Series S.

For example just grabbing one game I've been playing recently: MLB the Show 2024 looks and runs identically on both the PS5 and Series X - 4k 60fps.

It also runs on the Series S, which obviously can't handle the 4k 60fps. So what they did there is make it run at 1080p 60fps. The game itself is identically across PS5, Series X and Series S, but just has lower resolution on S.

Microsoft requires feature parity, so you can't release a dumbed down version of a game on Series S. It has to have all the same features as Series X (other than the notable exception made for Baldur's Gate split screen). But they do allow for lower resolution on the Series S.

Granted, maybe all these other devs are knee capping their PS5 builds just so that there isn't an obvious difference with the S/X.

I wonder if this could be rectified by giving a few more options to players when it comes to graphics settings. Include a "performance" and "graphics" mode so that S players can pick the lower end and X players have the option of pushing it to closer parity with PS5. This is very common in console games now, and TSW has always had a major lack of graphics settings even by console standards (you don't even get a brightness slider).

The Series S seemed like a great idea back in 2020 to lower the price point of the new gen but it is really throwing a wrench in things now.

 

I don't have a Xbox but the PC editor has the LOD and render configs for the XSX and XSS, let me check real quick

 

This is the reason why I can't play Vorarlberg on XSX (especially towards Bludenz) which I consider to be one of the most beautiful routes on TSW. Driving with a view from the cabin (the one that best covers the horror) and seeing the mountains in front of me being created from deformed and unrealistic blocks is something truly depressing. For routes like this I am forced to install everything on the PC too.

 

Vorarlburg is a hard route to play for me, not much I can do with it, the talent has a lot of Z-Fighting and the freight trains AFB is broken, if it wasn’t with a bundle like the 193 aswell (z fighting) it would have been refunded.

 

I have a bad feeling about the upcoming Semmeringbahn, too… Driving westward towards the Alps I can’t imagine the amount of pop-in you’ll see on Xbox.

 

Yeah, Semmering Bahn will be probably the same ugly mess like Vorarlberg on XSX
The cut of rendeering distance destroys the whole immersion. It looks nowhere near of what they publish in official videos and showcases.
But I refuse to spend 100s of EUROs again to rebuy everything i have already for PC. It just sucks.

 

Personally I just decided to not support the Xbox version anymore. If a new route comes out, I'll get it on PC, and then I'll slowly rebuy the German/Austrian/Swiss routes when they are discounted.

Then Steam Spring Sale happened, combined with even steeper sales by legitimate code resellers (which are still active, btw), so I now have all European mainland DLC already. (Well, except Arosa, which even on PC looks terrible, even if it's fun to drive.)

Not looking back, tbh. Deleted the game on Xbox. I don't have a lot of faith in DTG seeing the need to fix this anytime soon. They never acknowledged the problem before this thread, I think.

 

Yeah should have done it as well.
Terrible sound on older routes, like Sherman Hill i. e.
Z Buffer fighting textures in a lot cabs.. Vectron i. e.
Moutains popping 100 meters away from the track... Vorarlberg.. i.e. (its really bad !)

The latest Joke is the Bridge on the Fife Circle route.
On Xbox the bridge is invisible unles you already stand on it.. wtf.
There are so many issues on Xbox with this game.. its not really enjoyable.
And yes, I have a GEN9 Xbox Series X

 

Yeah TSWs Xbox version has reached a point where it can get really hard to enjoy... Vorarlberg is on my personal top 3 list of the worst routes ingame (along with Arosa and LIRR) and all those issues are meanwhile reflected in my buying behaviour as well. Salzburg - Rosenheim was the only DLC I bought for TSW4 and despite I enjoy it quite much I have no motivation to buy any other bits anytime soon.
Bernina - unsure because of Arosa and the distant scenery on xbox, not motivated to do hours of research for comparisons.
Blackpool - not my era, not associated with the region. Unfortunately.
Maintalbahn - I prefer the Nidder instead...
Fife circle - was really looking forward to it, a shame that it's dead on release already
Semmering - really fearing as well this will be another Vorarlberg... BRO has the same amount of Alpine feeling to it

My point is, during TSW2 days all of these would have been no brainers for me to buy and I wouldn't have hesitated. But issues like the described made me much more picky before buying anything.. Heck even my wife starts to pick up bugs in the meantime and wonders 'but all of the other games you're playing don't have such issues and don't need any workarounds'.
Last year I gave LFR the benefit of doubt because I thought it would have massive potential for further enhancements and a proper 90s feeling. Well, here we are.
Then I gave TSW4 the benefit of doubt because features like free Roam and Formation designer together with proper Controller vibration sounded cool. Well, I wouldn't directly regret it but TSW5 is no option at the current state.
The thing is - I want to become the TSW2 customer again who could get enjoyment out of routes without personal relations to them. I'd really like to buy routes like the described above but the requested amount of money comparable to AAA games and the offered products for this make this very hard.
And no, a gaming PC is not an option, it would be for TSW only since every other game I play and have played worked fantastic on the SX...

So please DTG, get some resources for your Xbox players. This enhances the old Miles Platting from back in the days by far.

 

I hope we get an update or acknowledgement they are working on this during rhe Roadmap stream.

Possibly an update on the Xbox audio as well.

Although peraonally I rather see the Draw distance or settings selection before the Audio.

 

If you bought it on Xbox you already have it on PC. It's a cross-platform purchase.

 

Agreed, show us that you care about your Xbox customers

 

Wait you mean all the dlc I bought on xbox I can run on my pc through xbox app?

 

Matt, couldn't DTG expand its existing US routes? Since new U.S. routes cannot be opened, existing routes, such as the original CXS route, should be expanded.

 

Yes, that is correct. But you won't have the options for mods like with the Steam version.

 

Ok thats cool

 

Why has this thread been moved to Troubleshooting? It's supposed to advise people on the shortcomings of the XSX version of the game compared to the PS5 version. Or does this mean DTG is shooting our troubles with it?

 

It's their way to move it out of the view for many forum users onto a less frequent read section on the forums.

Comes handy with the upcoming release of Semmeringbahn , that will potentially the same ugly popin mess on Xbox Series X, like Vorarlberg.

 

It has nothing to do with troubleshooting.
It's rather a design and configuration choice by the developers to overcome the shortcomings of the fake Gen 9 series S.

 

It's in Troubleshooting because that's where game issues go.

Makes it more visible.

 

Well when you do these "special timetables" for the series S would you mind awfully actually telling us S owners in preview streams and info for new routes! You'll happily announce the version differences for gen 8 consoles but DTG actually like the series S doesn't exist so we spend our hard earned money on a route and are left dissatisfied with what we end up with because we don't get told anything!