Public Beta Build 76.3a

Discussion in 'Public Beta' started by TrainSim-Steve, Dec 11, 2023.

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  1. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Senior Producer Staff Member

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    Hello everyone, I'm posting this early so you have a chance to read this before the update rolls out at around 1pm UTC/GMT today. Please post your feedback relating only to the build version 76.3a here. If you wish to discuss things not relating to this beta, please use the other forums. Please ensure you specifically read the Important Note highlighted below.

    What's Included/Changed

    We've fundamentally fixed the last remaining issues relating to how TS allocates memory. The specifics of our latest work are:

    • Support for 64-bit addressing in all custom heaps in the x64 build.
    • Fix for assert in STL when decrementing an iterator at the beginning of a list.
    • More reliable releasing of landscape textures.
    • New launcher app to fix launching the same build (x32/x64/Dx12) on graphical or resolution change.
    • Workaround for screen resolution drop down in settings dialogue running off screen - added an offset to move dropdown vertically to remain on screen.
    • Mitigation for serialisation crash during texture load. The most common crash in build v75.6a.x64
    • Code to prevent crash from the dispatcher upon freeing up the same node twice on routing failure.
    • Added check for -1 pointer in ScriptGetConsistSpeed.
    • Fix for crash in headlight destructor (5th most common crash in v75.8a.x64).
    • Potential fix for a crash caused by a ray cast calculation going off the end of a vertex buffer, this was more common in scenario editing mode than drive.
    • Mitigation for various crashes due to null pointers or use of uninitialized variables in Delta serialisation, Scenario Editor consist placement, loft building.
    • Initialisation of the "Current Consist" to zero/null on startup so as to mitigate crash during signal script initialisation accessing current consist when it is undefined.
    • Additional logging to aid debugging D3D error.

    With this update, fundamentally, crashes pertaining to memory addressing and allocation are no longer likely, and crashes experienced from this point forward will either be those caused by your own hardware or software (i.e., Windows, Drivers, etc.) or are content related (i.e., corrupted assets, improperly compiled assets, etc.) and would be highly unlikely to be caused by TS itself. We’ll be looking into where we can improve crash prevention in the future for crashes relating to common content-related issues.

    Restarting and Setting Resolution

    Also, you'll note a couple of additional things we've implemented such as when you choose to restart the game when changing settings in game, you will now correctly be restarted into the same version you were in prior to the restart. So, if you were in 64-bit before requesting the restart, it will now correctly put you back in 64-bit on restart. Also, we've fixed the issue pertaining to the display resolutions supported by your GPU in that some cards would produce such a long list that it would be impossible to select the higher resolutions due to the list running off the bottom of the screen.

    D3D Vertex Buffer Error

    We've put in some additional logging to help us debug the common D3D "Vertex Buffer" error which is typically seen when task switching (AKA Alt-Tabbing) in full screen mode. This is a complex issue that has not been so easy to address.

    Fundamentally, there are a number of situations that can result in the D3D error, but in general, these are all due to the D3D device being "lost" (basically your GPU disappears), and a failure in TSC to recover from this loss. In theory, the procedure to handle this situation is quite straightforward, the application receives a lost device error, frees up any D3D objects, then calls a device reset. Unfortunately, the device reset is failing, and the most common reason for this is that one or more D3D objects are not being released.

    We have spent a significant amount of time debugging the creation and releasing of D3D objects within TSC, and yet have not been able to determine the cause of the device reset failure, and hence implement a fix. There is a chance that some objects within third party plugins are not be being freed up correctly, which is slowing down the debugging further since we don't have source code for those. We are continuing to investigate this as a matter of priority.

    Important Note (Updated 12th December)

    You will need to have dotNet 4.7.2 or higher installed for this build. As mentioned yesterday, we identified an issue with the dotNet installer not triggering properly and have uploaded a new build to target the 4.7.2 version of dotNet instead following your feedback it was not installing. Unfortunately, dotNet 6 is not supported by Steam as an automatic install hence the change in version. The Steam change may take some time to propagate so it may be later in the day when you will be prompted to install it if you need to.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2024
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  2. WoodlandTracks

    WoodlandTracks Active Member

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    That is great news !

    Hopefully the Alpha Team will include some non-hardcore train simmers as well.
     
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  3. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Senior Producer Staff Member

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    Updated my post with a correction to the build number.

    Best, Steve
     
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  4. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Senior Producer Staff Member

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    Build should now be live :)

    Approx download size on opting in will be around 20.8 MB

    Best, Steve
     
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  5. WoodlandTracks

    WoodlandTracks Active Member

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    Got it, only 20+ MB
     
  6. Spikee1975

    Spikee1975 Guest

    You may need to restart Steam to recognise the new BuildID and opt into Beta again incase you're not seeing an update.
     
  7. WoodlandTracks

    WoodlandTracks Active Member

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    Running Public Beta 76.2c

    Looks like I need to re-adjust my full screen resolution. There is a huge black frame around the image. . . some time later, the "issue" was resolved by going to windowed-mode and then back to fullscreen-mode

    Just did a swift QuickDrive run and after exiting TSC I got this pop-up . . .

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2023
  8. Spikee1975

    Spikee1975 Guest

    Report:

    RailWorks64.exe (Windowed Fullscreen, Win 10)
    Peninsula Corridor: San Francisco - San Jose
    Scenario UP Mission Bay Hauler

    still crashes to desktop on loading (error in dispatcher module, already discussed in a thread and demo scenario uploaded for team to investigate)

    Logfiles attached.

    Vanilla installation. (Only Academy and Peninsula Corridor SFSJ installed)

    Gold Star achieved on TSC v72.3 ;)
    2023-12-11 14_37_13-Train Simulator (x64).png
    2023-12-11 14_37_35-.png
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2023
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  9. dolanbaker

    dolanbaker Active Member

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    Screen froze on first running after update, but this could probably be due to the previous running including some editing of a route I am building. Menu freeze is a frequent issue after route building, will be interesting to see if this beta has cleared it.
    Shutdown and restart and all good so far.
     
  10. Spikee1975

    Spikee1975 Guest

    It's advisabe to delete/backup Content\PlayerProfiles.bin when testing the new Beta. It stores a lot of values which could cause issues after updating.

    The Menu freeze only happens if you enter the game and go to Build menu directly, do your stuff and then quit to main menu. This avoids the processing of the SDBCache.bin for the Drive menu, which will then happen on exiting the Build menu (as it then needs to show route icon). Clicking Drive first, and it's done. Time depends on the amount of routes and scenarios installed. Also it syncs with your career.xml in the Steam folder when creating a new scenario.

    TrainSim-Steve A progress indicator when the SDBCache.bin is processed would be nice, as the process appears to be dead (not responding) during that time (ingame, not splash screen). This can take quite some time on big installations. (up to a minute here)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2023
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  11. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Senior Producer Staff Member

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    Yep, we know what this one is about and it's content related not core, so requires a content fix to resolve. We have it booked in to be sorted.

    Best, Steve
     
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  12. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Senior Producer Staff Member

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    Need to read the Important note mentioned above.

    Best, Steve
     
  13. Spikee1975

    Spikee1975 Guest

    I can provide you with a fixed version if you like. (moving the consists in the sidings a little back and deleting one car from the third rake).
     
  14. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Senior Producer Staff Member

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    Spikee1975, that would be amazing! Thank you.

    Naturally, we'll credit you for the fix.

    Best, Steve
     
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  15. Oystein

    Oystein Well-Known Member

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    Still running off screen after the update.
    RailWorks64_U8nThomVP9.jpg
     
  16. WoodlandTracks

    WoodlandTracks Active Member

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    LOL :) I did, twice. Before installing and before posting. Just thought it was odd Steam did not offer to install and that all runs fine, except exiting the game.

    What is this dot net stuff for. Am I missing out anything ?
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2023
  17. Spikee1975

    Spikee1975 Guest

    I'll DM you.
     
  18. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Senior Producer Staff Member

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    Interesting, thanks for that - will pass that along.

    Yeah, we're looking into it currently. Thought it prudent since you posted to flag that you got that error. Seems to be a problem at our end and not yours. Apologies.

    Best, Steve
     
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  19. WoodlandTracks

    WoodlandTracks Active Member

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    No worries Steve. Never even knew I did not have it. What is this dot net stuff for? Am I missing out anything ?
     
  20. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Senior Producer Staff Member

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    Nothing particularly exciting I'm afraid. It provides a code framework to make it easier to build applications for Windows.

    Best, Steve
     
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  21. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Senior Producer Staff Member

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    Update on this, seems the UI file needed for this was accidentally omitted from the build upload. We'll push this out alongside the dotNet fix we're working on - likely tomorrow.

    Best, Steve
     
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  22. BRD

    BRD Well-Known Member

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    Very nice news altogether, Steve! Will look into it later today. :)
     
  23. buzz4567

    buzz4567 Active Member

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    It looks like the beta does not recognize routes in the workshop. Under required Add-ons it's showing the route required like I don't have it even though I do have it.
     
  24. filipdriver#2194

    filipdriver#2194 New Member

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    did you fix the out of memory error?
     
  25. buzz4567

    buzz4567 Active Member

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    Why don't you read the release statement?
     
  26. OldAlaskaGuy

    OldAlaskaGuy Well-Known Member

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    Installed and ran the new beta and updated.net this morning. Reset frame rate limits from 30 to 60 and noticed much better frame rates. Noticed better use of my discrete GPU. Scenarios that were in the teens went to 30+. Did not notice any stuttering, Ran smooth and no crashes.
     
  27. Spikee1975

    Spikee1975 Guest

    There wasn't one single OOM error. It was a generic message related to all sorts of issues which have been eliminated step by step.

    The most likely cause still left is bad assets or corrupted workshop items.
     
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  28. Peter Hayes

    Peter Hayes Well-Known Member

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    Trainsiom Steve
    Do we need to install ,NET 6 - SDK 6.0.417 in both x64 and x86 versions?
    https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/download/dotnet/6.0 (BUT SEE POST BELOW)
    We now have .NET 8 is that the best option?

    Check what version you have
    Windows - Control Panel - Programs and Features - Scroll down to Microsoft .NET and that will show the version installed - must be at least 6.

    NOTE: Post below by triznya.andras gives a much better solution and his/her link should be used,
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2023
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  29. triznya.andras

    triznya.andras Well-Known Member

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    You only need the runtime, at least according to the error message.

    SDK is useful if you are developing, and want to build new .Net executables. That could include just having your own CI/CD pipeline, or building your custom version of RW Tools.

    The error message above points at the x64 Desktop Runtime. Stackoverflow suggests that x64 includes x86.
    A thus irrelevant argument about x86 - If you never run the x86, you wouldn't need it. In general, however, many .Net apps are targeting x86, also you may want to check something in x86 mode because reasons.

    So, I'd go for this: https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/.../runtime-desktop-6.0.25-windows-x64-installer
     
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  30. BRD

    BRD Well-Known Member

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    So I am building this one scenario, and when trying to either edit it or simply to play it, I always get thrown out with the typical error message.

    It seems just like on the previous versions of TS Classic, the only way to access my scenario is to do the "Wash and Go trick".

    Long story short: The game crashes when reaching almost 3GB of RAM usage. By editing the Wash and Go scenario from the Munich to Augsburg route, and then clicking "play", and then going back to the main menu, opening the scenario that crashes the game, magically doesn't crash the game and the RAM memory goes well over 6GB usage if necessary. The game is rather stable, though. But only after that strange trick... There's a Czech video about it:

    I'm attaching the crash log and a compilation of 3 log files created from LogMate. Please note, that the things I'm putting to test are third party content.

    I'm also sharing this information here, as it seems to be one of those strange memory usage issues for which might not have been found the cause for them.
     

    Attached Files:

  31. liechtensteiner.sg

    liechtensteiner.sg New Member

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    The launcher app TSC cannot be opened. I have the beta build 76.2c and the latest dot framwork, but the launcher app TSC doesn't work, or you don't have to open the new app
     
  32. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Senior Producer Staff Member

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    Build number in the thread has been updated to correlate with the latest version of this Public Beta build. Additional changes noted below:

    - dotNet runtime version targetted at 4.7.2 to support app launcher which handles the restart issue when restarting from in-game.
    - Steam pipe redistributables updated to auto-install the correct version of dotNet runtime.
    - Fixed issue relating to missing UI file responsible for handling display resolutions.

    Additional download size is approx 5 MB.

    Best, Steve
     
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  33. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Senior Producer Staff Member

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    The launcher app is only used by the software. It cannot be executed by the user. The launcher is designed to detect which version of Train Simulator is running when the player has made changes to the settings which requires the game to be restarted (such as changing resolution or graphical changes).

    Best, Steve
     
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  34. liechtensteiner.sg

    liechtensteiner.sg New Member

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    Thank you for the information Steve
     
  35. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Senior Producer Staff Member

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    Quite an interesting one this. Looking through the data provided (thanks so much for the detail here), there appears to be a fair amount of content-related problems - missing or invalid data, missing or invalid blueprints, etc. All of these are likely contributing to the failure to load the scenario in the editor. We're not able to explain why the W&G Technique described is a workaround for the issue without having the scenario and access to all the content included so we can see what's going on with it. It is likely that there's some kind of buffer overrun from your description and what the crash dump is telling us.

    The problem is that the nature of TSC means that it doesn't do much (if any) error checking on content load/serialisation. It simply can't because of the way it has been engineered. So any issues in the blueprint files, in terms of invalid data, cannot really be recovered from. TSC trusts that the data is valid, and because the data loading is abstracted (and handled by the old Kuju Delta library) there isn't much we can do. If we had lots of similar issues with our own content, it would highlight that some of our recent changes (such as compiler, tools and library upgrades) may have introduced compatibility issues in the data. However, because so many of these issues seem to be only with 3rd party content explicitly, we don't think that is the case.

    The only real fix here, therefore, is looking at some of the offending content highlighted in the logmate output - either fix the missing/invalid data or remove from the scenario.

    Hope this helps.

    Best, Steve
     
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  36. BRD

    BRD Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your response Steve!

    I have actually made another test and instead of editing the Wash and Go scenario, I just went directly into it via Career Scenario mode and after closing that, the game was again stable with over the 3GB RAM usage.

    I shall look and see if I can fix and / or remove the files being highlighted by log mate and we shall see what happens next.
     
  37. 21c164fightercommand

    21c164fightercommand Well-Known Member

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    what is the memory usage and CPU load of v76.3c sitting on the selection screen after scenario and rail vehicle databases have been updated and the game is waiting for you to start it?
    I have it at 30-35% CPU and ca 820 MB.
    What is it actually doing when idling?
     
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  38. toms87

    toms87 Well-Known Member

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    A bit of feedback on two situations, where my TS always crashe (and all the updates never changed this):

    1. Going "in and out" of the the editor multiple times. For example when testing different weather patterns. Do this 5-10 times and the game dumps.
    2. Another situation from the editor. "Looking at rolling stock". Not even placing it on the tracks, just clicking on rolling stock from different providers and viewing it without placing will cause a crash after 30-40 vehicles. This is annoying, when you have a huge collection.
     
  39. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Senior Producer Staff Member

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    Thanks toms87, do you have crash data and logmate outputs that we can analyse, please?

    Best, Steve
     
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  40. toms87

    toms87 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, not right now. I still have to test the new beta today. Just something I have noticed over the years and never seems to change, even through all your new builds where you are trying to erase crashing from the game.
     
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  41. Oystein

    Oystein Well-Known Member

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    If I'm not wrong, once a texture is loaded in TS (and in memory) it won't be removed until you restart the game/scenario. So my guess is that you just fill up the memory until it crashes. Each rolling stock can have several hundred of megabytes in just textures.
     
  42. jhz37

    jhz37 New Member

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    Ryzen 7 7800X3D CPU temp 84 degrees at 48 watt load with that beta thing. With my V72.0 version 52 degrees on a 55 watt load... This is crazy...:o

    I think I will continue to work with my rock stable version V72.0a for good. Have no problems at all with V72.0a...:love:
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2023
  43. wellington

    wellington Guest

    I decided to test this compilation even though I know that the full screen and tab switching problem was not fixed, the error is now generated instantly with new errors, before it was on the second tab change where the D3D Vertex Buffer Error was generated.

    Error being in the menu.
    Frontend.jpg

    Error when being in a scenario.
    Drive.jpg

    If this were a final compilation, they would be bombarded with complaints.

    In versions prior to this, I discovered the reason for the D3D Vertex Buffer error, the problem is a conflict with the SilverLining plugin (because it also handles DX9 apis), I can even switch between tabs in full screen without errors when removing the plugin.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2023
  44. Oystein

    Oystein Well-Known Member

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    Have you locked the framerate?
    I've set mine to 120, I don't need my PC to work hard to give me 800FPS.
     
  45. liechtensteiner.sg

    liechtensteiner.sg New Member

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    The beta 76.3a has no problems so far. I always work in Editor for 4 - 6 hours, mostly using the TSC 64 DX12 and also DX9 64 bit, the only thing I did was remove the install folder in Railworks I don't use 32 bit. my CPU temperature is always at 45 -55 degrees, and utilization 14 -30%
     
  46. buzz4567

    buzz4567 Active Member

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    I don't think there has been a response to this. Can anyone else check this and see if they have the same condition?
     
  47. robix61

    robix61 New Member

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    I have sometime an OOM error replacing a loco in the Scenario Editor, immediately after moving with the mouse the instructions from a loco to the other. This doesn't happen in the previous version 75.8a in the same situation and locos.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2023
  48. buzz4567

    buzz4567 Active Member

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    Here's a new one. Doing a re-paint and did a .xx on a texture to see what all was on there and the game immediately gave me the OOM and crashed. This has always been a fairly normal method when having a little trouble finding a particular object on a loco or car. Usually you just went in and hit restart to see what that texture was doing. I got it to repeat so it's not a one off.
     
  49. ash992478

    ash992478 Member

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    Still having issues unfortunately, I have attached two logs, both from different scenarios I've tried to load up, as well as the below error message which appeared on both.

    bandicam 2023-12-13 18-13-11-876.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  50. Spikee1975

    Spikee1975 Guest

    This looks like corrupt assets / missing files. Probably a file verification will solve this.

    I see it's Portsmouth Direct Line, which scenario? And what you mean with "load up"? Play or Edit?

    The more precise your information, the easier to reproduce.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2023
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