Questions And Considerations For Mondays Timetable Stream.

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Inkar, Jul 2, 2021.

  1. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    I have noticed that many times it is impossible or close to impossible for a player to follow the timetable and arrive on time. This is specially so when the space between two stations is short (less than 1 Km).
    My guess is that there are four factors at play here:

    1.- Players can't calculate acceleration and brake curves as perfectly as a computer can.

    2.- Players can't go 100% throttle / brake in 0.01 secs as the computer can (because we use keyboards, controllers, etc).

    3.- Players might play with safety systems on (like PZB) that make the player train go slower than an AI train or a player train with safety systems off would.

    4.- The player train has "enhanced" physics compared to AI trains, so acceleration and brake times might not be exactly the same.


    Please note that even if I consider point 2 a problem to keep up with the timetable I feel like we, the players, do not really like or enjoy having to go 100% throttle or brake to be in time.
    What we would want is to be able to start and stop the train more like a real driver and not make all passengers hit their heads with the seat in front of them. All of this should have an influence on the scoring system too.

    So, my questions for the timetable team are the following:

    1.- Have you considered any improvements to mitigate the problems exposed above?
    I'm thinking something like adding some time penalty to AI, so if an AI train would go from station A to station B that is 5 Km away, you add a 10% time penalty. But, if the AI train has to go from station A to station B that is 0.5 Km away maybe you would need to add a 20% time penalty, etc...
    I couldn't think a good solution for the "safety systems on" problem, but maybe the dev time has one already.

    2.- After reading last weeks article about timetables I'm a bit worried about what will happen if a player arrives too soon or too late to a "couple this train to this other train" instruction.
    My first thought is that you will probably solve this by using signals to block the train that has to arrive last so it does not access the piece of track before the first train arrives.
    Are you doing it this way or have you found something more clever?

    3.- I have heard Matt is working on some changes to the scoring system (which is obviously related to player ability to be in time). Can you share what are your views about how this new scoring system should work considering all that I have said before?


    I think this is all for the time being.
    Thanks for reading!
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2021
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  2. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure why it would be so hard to copy the RL train schedules from the actual timetable. Not precisely copying the whole timetable, which runs into performance issues, but at least noting down that it takes the real-life service 3 minutes and 48 seconds to get from Puddleby to Norting Chippen and using that, not the 3 minutes 10 it takes an AI train.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2021
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  3. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    That's a real issue for me. When playing with PZB I might be going just 80, 40 or even 20 km/h where the AI just smashes the throttle forward, on some services (with a lot of adverse signals), that does become a challenge. That challenge can be really fun, but at times I do feel like it is literally impossible to achieve timeliness with PZB on.

    On other services however, I seem much faster than the AI (such as ICE services from Köln to Aachen, or from München to Augsburg, both take me at least 2 minutes less than scheduled, but sometimes 5+). As I accelerate and brake more gently than I see AI trains do, that really surprises me.

    All in all a stream about timetables sounds really interesting, I'd love to hear more about the process, and the things they pay attention to. For me Timetables make or break a route. Good timetables have different stopping patterns and service lengths, including some one-off services (like some of the depot moves, especially of the layerd BR 422, on SKA and the stabling and preparing for service of freight trains on HHL). I love the variety in some timetables, and the frequency. Seeing a train pull into another platform and thinking "hey, I've never played that train on that service before, let's try that out" is what keeps me coming back to a route.
     
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  4. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    Some timetables on TSW 2 and preserved routes are very difficult to keep to time on. They can’t be based on the real timetable as you’re set up to fail rather than succeed at being on time. It’s very frustrating to be doing everything you can to hit the right time, but still miss it. It wouldn’t be too bad if the scoring system didn’t penalise so much on some routes too.
     
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  5. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    The public time table isn't the whole story. They public timetable represents when someone should be able to expect to catch a train and when they can expect to arrive at their destination station. Behind the scenes is the working timetable which shows where trains start and finish, what trains become other trains (reversing, splitting, joining, different route), where they pass or cross, where they dwell either in or between stations. Where they must wait for a particular time and where they can leave early or they can stay late if they need a nature break. Time tables also show extra paths for special trains and paths to catch up late running and often show alternate paths for freight even on purely passenger lines. This would be the timetable to use. The hard bit of railways tend to play these cards close to their chest. Oh the railway where I'm a volunteer we're not allowed to share the working time table.

    Paul
     
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  6. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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