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Real Or Semi Real

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by NSMotherSlug#881, Dec 10, 2018.

  1. NSMotherSlug#881

    NSMotherSlug#881 Member

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    A question I've been asked lately is this game realistic or arcade style and I would have to say arcade style only because of some reasons that aren't implemented into the game yet or may never be added.

    Like
    #1.about 3 weeks ago I found myself lucky enough to go down to the Real Cumberland Rail Yard and watch trains being humped and a single SD40-3 CSX unit switching the yard I watched it pull 42 freight cars like it was nothing counting the notches as the unit pushed forwards with power it only got to notch 4 then dropped to notch 1 empty or full the cars were I don't know so I tried it on the game in Cumberland with a single SD40-2 and it struggled to even try to pull 42 Freight cars that are empty,Reasons Why NO Physics come on DTG get with the program you have had almost 2yrs.

    #2.Speed Limit. The speed limit in real life as I know goes upon what your hauling and it's weight and how long.so every train has a different speed limit on the same route tracks but there is a overall speed limit which can't be broken to my understandings, so long heavy trains will have a reduced speed compared to a short light train.

    #3.More Power. I don't like how in game when your in a unit and back into a unit that's power is off that it automatically turns the unit on. Reason I can't stand this is simply because a train can have too much power. In game if you turn the 2nd unit off both units turn off together which is dumb, if it does that why does it turn the 2nd unit on then. Too much power and the train could tear apart the rails you ride on right from under you. These freight trains you see running now a days 4 or 7 diesel units only 2 of them are powered usually the other units are for weight and the use of braking power that's it. A single unit has enough power to pull or push at lease 40 cars by itself given the type of unit but to increase it's overall power you spread it's weight out with another unit like how a Slug is used, Slugs have No engine the mother unit only uses the slugs Traction Motors, Brakes and it's Weight which is usually concrete blocks inside the slug body, why isn't that in game.

    #4.All Heat and No Cold. I like how in game you as a player can be in cab and have the ability to turn on the heater or the air but by doing so there's No result to having them on or off. I would be really really nice if the cabs of these units had there own atmosphere making the heater or air playable results to them.

    I do love this game a lot I have 221hrs on it, but In the end I just find myself playing Train Simulator instead
     
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  2. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    The new physics should be coming soon.
     
  3. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    It’ll take more than a physics update to make things feel less like an arcade game and more like a simulator.

    Despite receiving the diesel electric update, GWE still doesn’t feel ‘right’ as there are still various bugs and flaws in the route and game itself. The inadequate sounds don’t help either.

    One of the biggest outstanding bugs in GWE is the signalling and safety system, which has been flawed since release, which was in SEPTEMBER 2017, over a year ago...
     
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  4. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Have been running several service on the GWE over the last couple of days and I agree with the sound in the class 43 - but I have found the signalling to work as expected. I run with AWS and DSD enable and on the last several services have not had any problem. Was running ahead of schedule on one service and saw my signal go from red to yellow then double yellow as I approached and the consist in front of me move on down the line. All AWS alerts have been correct for speed and aspect changes.
    So I don't know if they patched something or I have just been lucky in the services I have run, but for the last several I have run - signaling has not been a problem.
     
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  5. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

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    But still no flashing yellows prior to points (switches) and TPWS (ATP?) is not present either. The code for the former is supposedly present but not activated for some reason and the latter was meant to appear somewhat later after GWE release.
     
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  6. LimitedEdiition

    LimitedEdiition Well-Known Member

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    Is there proof for both of these points? If this came straight from DTG's mouth, I think this adds another bullet point to how poorly this company is managed and how they truly don't care about the content that they have released. This route came out a full year ago, and yet ATP not being present if it really was promised is just sad.
     
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  7. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

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    The answer about TPWS/ATP came in a comment by one of DTG staff (Trainsim-Steve?) on the old trainsim.com website and sadly the comments were not migrated across. I think the answer was along the lines of not enough time to do before release as it was complicated but should appera at a later date so I suppose it could be argued it wasn't a firm commitment but certainly that was the impression given. I must admit I thought the answer about the code for flashing yellows being already there but not functional for unknown reasons had been on this forum but I couldn't find it with the search function so perhaps that was also a comment reply from DTG on the old website as I could find it on the Steam forum either.
     
  8. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    I think you’re right, in that that aspect of the signalling works ok. As LM says, I find the track switch signalling doesn’t work as it should, and there are numerous spurious AWS warnings for speed limits on branches/sidings that the player train is never to go on. The Eastbound approach to one of the yards (I can’t remember which off the top of my head) always sets off the AWS even though the road is green on the mainline.

    IMHO opinion I think it’s always been like that, I’m not sure anything has changed. You must have the Midas touch! ;-)
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
  9. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    This is exactly what I’m talking about. You get random AWS warnings for diverging routes you aren’t even signalled to go down. The most noticeable part of the line where this happens is Slough, where you’re going through at 125mph with clear aspects but you always get that dreaded AWS warning.

    I feel, like Rapid Transit, the signalling won’t get fixed until the developers ‘get time to go back and fix it’ which we don’t know for certain if or when it will.
     
  10. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    Well there's enough differences between the AP sound pack for the class 47 and the TSW version to raise questions..
     
  11. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Now you mention it, you are correct about the spurious AWS warnings -- and they need to be corrected. I just recalled from the early days after release wasn't their some problem with the safety systems that would cause emergency braking when no situation occurred that would warrant it? I though from the comment that all the signaling was hosed with respect to aspects and such.

    The spurious AWS are annoying and need attention - but still one can have some enjoyable runs despite those. But let us hope that DTG will circle back and correct those flaws.
     
  12. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    Agree 100%. It’s not game breaking, just frustrating.
     
  13. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    I get the impression there are some deep-seated issues with the signalling code on GWE. There are no flashing yellow aspects at all, the TPWS doesn't function and the AWS has the issues outlined above. Unfortunately I think it's going to be similar to the "this may end up requiring a complete re-signalling" excuse that we had with Rapid Transit.
     
  14. Juxen

    Juxen Active Member

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    I used to use an SD40-2 (same one as shown in my profile pic), and we would regularly use it to haul 44 loaded hoppers at 10 mph. There was still more it could have done, too. The closest I've ever gotten a locomotive to its stalling point was a little SW1200 with 28 loads and one empty. I made sure the air was completely charged before moving.
     
  15. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I have to ask what effect are you seeking? Do you want to feel hot or cold? Perhaps this could be done by placing a small heating/cooling unit near your computer?
     
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  16. ASRGT

    ASRGT Active Member

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    This debate is always interesting and yet frustrating to read.
    To claim TSW is an arcade game is absurd and perhaps we all need to revisit what an Arcade game is in actuality.

    Ridge Racer , Daytona , Destruction Derby all Arcade games old yes but classic examples that sum up the arcade experience there is zero basis in reality of how these games work, there is no driving model, tire model nothing they where all simply models that rotated around on set animation angles to give the illusion of turning, in fact in allot of these games the car model its self never moved , it was the track that was moving.

    By Contrast even a game like Forza Horizons is considered Arcade but the drive model used is based on a simulation .. so is it Arcade, Simulation or Simcade ?

    Jump into a cold loco on RSN for example and drive with PZB on & Hud off and let me know how Arcade the game feels.

    SimuGraph based on info we do have suggests its attempting to simulate how a train functions at a far lower level than TS1 ever did and that should be commended, the issue is clear however that early content like CSX where produced at a time where DTG was very much still incubating these tools, Rapid Transit to RSN shows this again the the later having a far more mature and competent implantation of PZB in place.

    The biggest issue here has nothing to do with a completely no factual debate of sim vs arcade, its that TSW is evolving as DTG learns how to use it and bring tooling online internal to aid in a deeper and better simulation , the consequence is plain to see.. the early stuff sucks by comparison. That can be hard pill to swallow for us end users for sure.

    Our feedback is often critical and tad harsh at times , driven normally out of our passion for wanting the best Train Sim we can get our hands on, and to DTGs credit big items like signaling , Sounds and loco feel are improving each release , the sad truth is however just like TS1 some content will show its age , if you look at early TS1 content compared to current standards there like playing entirely different games.

    Like anything in life the more you do it the better you get, and once you understand it chances are you will then seek ways of improving.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
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  17. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    The signalling one of the weakest aspects of TSW and they are not improving with each release.

    GWE, no flashing yellows or TPWS/ATP, erroneous AWS demands.
    RT, PZB completely broken.
    NEC, ATC and ACSES are broken.
    LIRR, signals showing incorrect aspects, signals/signage missing, lineside signals and cab signals disagree.

    What's even worse is that they have most of the above working fine in TS2019, so they are actually getting worse with each release. The only exception is RSN, but that's somewhat of an insult to those who purchased RT as DTG have said they have no plans to fix PZB on RT despite getting it working in RSN. They also haven't updated the Steam Store page for RT to explain that the PZB is broken and to not expect the same functionality as experienced in RSN; They even use being able to master the signalling system on RT as a selling point.
     
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  18. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the signals are getting better with new releases. LIRR has problems, yes, but nowhere near as bad as the signals on NEC at first release, not to mention that LIRR does have unique and complicated signal rules that are different from Amtrak’s signals.
     
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  19. ASRGT

    ASRGT Active Member

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    While i agree RT was disappointing and the lack of any word if the route will simply die now or be updated is also frustrating, there is a clear improvement between RT and RSN. And that is the only example we currently have of the same signaling system re used but improved upon.

    NEC to LIRR are not exactly the same system imo, then again American lines and signaling not a strong point for me or of deep interests so i cant comment on how good or bad they are while i do own the routes LIRR seems to function fine for the most part. My understanding of LIRR for example is the line speed does not match the in cab signaling in reality and Driver knowledge is the key here to adjusting speed to the lowest of the two values ? but again i am no expert here however if that's the case then is it really an issue with the signaling or simply a fact that duplicating reality is often counter intuitive to what we expect these lines to operate like ?

    I have been more than vocal on here and other places for my dislike towards Rapid transit signaling and my disappointment over how that DLC will now essentially be relegated to the garbage and trust me it drives me nuts. But if i step back overall TSW for me anyway, is improving for the most part.

    Cross referencing TS1 in my opinion is not really applicable considering there two entirely different technology stacks and fundamentally are attempting to duplicate the same end result be it using very different methods, we could debate the merits of of attempting to simulate proper block sectioning signaling and having it controlled by an "Ai" is better or worse than static scripting ect.
    When i think back to early TS1 routes things are far from perfect there either , TS1 has had far more years of development time and i guess its up the end user to decided if there willing to come along for the ride with TSW or sit and wait for it to mature .
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
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  20. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    The problem with the LIRR signaling is that they don’t give warning of an upcoming speed change until you’re at the area where the change happens.
     
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  21. ASRGT

    ASRGT Active Member

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    Ok that makes sense cheers sir
     
  22. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    LIRR has both ACSES and ATC if you enable them both. Since ACSES is really to assist with temporary speed restrictions, the system itself is the warning of the speed change. And it isn’t a perfect system even in the real world.

    “Due to several limitations of the ACSES system and various contingency operations, employees must still be familiar with all permanent and temporary speed restrictions. ACSES is meant to supplement, not replace employee's knowledge and skills[3]:355”

    Here is an article that explains more of both ACSES and ATC as well.
     
  23. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    LIRR is not using ACSES yet. It’s not active in TSW either.
     
  24. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    You are right... don’t know what I was thinking about... but still a pretty good article an ACSES :)
     
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  25. Yerolo

    Yerolo Active Member

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    Do you honestly expect them to advertise something like that ? This does not happen with any game anywhere...broken features / known issues are usually contained to bug reports on forums such as this
     
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  26. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    It's actually against the law in the UK to advertise a product in a misleading way. By specifically highlighting the signalling system as a feature it's likely to infleunce someone purchasing the game. To continue to specifically highlight the signalling system as a feature whilst knowing it is broken is, in my opinion, misleading people, which under the UK's Trade Descriptions Act 1968 would be illegal and DTG could be subject to a hefty fine.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
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