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Record Attempt By A Pendolino Called The Royal Scot

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by shhweeet#4292, Jun 17, 2021.

  1. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Jun 17, 2021
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  2. Olaf the Snowman

    Olaf the Snowman Well-Known Member

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  3. JJTimothy

    JJTimothy Well-Known Member

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    I wonder how many people would be surprised that the current record holder is the APT which set its time in spite of a five minute hold at signals. It's still widely regarded as a miserable failure.
     
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  4. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    Goes past near me around 1228hrs
    I plan to go and try and capture it flying through and will post back if I can
     
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  5. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    So in theory this Pendolino should ace it providing everything goes as it should with no hitches. I’ve got to be honest I didn’t know the APT was the current record holder. ( I just have a casual interest in trains ) It just goes to show how advanced it was for it’s time despite it’s development problems. Good old British Rail.;) Doesn’t the Pendolino use a lot of the APT know how but obviously more developed?

    I plan to go and see it whizz by somewhere near Carlisle if I can.
     
  6. JJTimothy

    JJTimothy Well-Known Member

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    When BR was privatised bits of BREL were bought by different firms and with mergers, company name changes and buy-outs since and technology being licensed between manufacturers it's not easy to say exactly how directly the current tilting trains are descended from the APT. Bombardier were buyers so the Voyager has some APT DNA but FIAT, who make the Pendolino, were certainly working on tilting trains at the same time as Dr. Wickens' team.

    Arguably more important than the train itself though is the data that came from what was fated to be never more than a research project (the "APT" brand was so poisoned by the media that when trains that were essentially production APTs entered service they were called "Inter-City 225"). That data was largely given away by BR when production of the Class 91 and Mk4 rolling stock (which became IC225) was put out to tender as part of the package for interested parties and is now almost public domain. And then the Class 91s construction was subcontracted to BREL anyway...
     
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  7. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    Here we go. Just got back, not very eventful but at least I can say I saw it if it does break the record. It's only a mile or so north of Preston Stn so not at full speed. Onwards through Lancaster and beyond after this......
     
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  8. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    Here’s my view of it between Kingmoor just north of Carlisle and Floriston crossing just south of Gretna. Gave the train a wave and got a hoot from him which was nice. I thought it didn’t look to be going that fast but once it had passed train traffic including Pendolino’s started passing again regularly and were going MUCH slower. Sorry got a video of it but I can’t get it to transfer to this site.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2021
  9. andrewandjane66

    andrewandjane66 Active Member

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    Missed the record by 21 seconds apparently.
     
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  10. Olaf the Snowman

    Olaf the Snowman Well-Known Member

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  11. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    So much for progress.

    Bummer! :(
     
  12. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    No way! Crazy
     
  13. JJTimothy

    JJTimothy Well-Known Member

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    Well according to Real Time Trains it left Euston at 10:35 and arrived in Glasgow at 14:29. I make that three hours 54 minutes. That 10:35 departure might have been 10:35 and 59 seconds but the record is 3:52 and change.

    On this evidence it looks like the APT record still stands.

    Edit: Ah there we go. A record breaking run would have been cool but part of me is pleased that a British designed and built train branded as a failure by many people still has the crown.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2021
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  14. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    I think that’s what’s called putting a positive spin on things :D

    But yeah I kind of feel the same way especially because the APT was from the much lambasted British Rail days.

    Edit ….. Some temporary speed restrictions at / near Carstairs was to blame apparently.

    https://www.itv.com/news/london/202...r-the-fastest-train-london-to-glasgow-journey
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2021
  15. JJTimothy

    JJTimothy Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to e-mail Kit Spackman about this- I'm sure he'll have an interesting view. Kit developed the APT tilt system and I know him slightly through the Friends of Darlington Railway Centre and Museum and later sent him a video that got him interested in the Train Simulator APT.

    Side note (and I know this is a nominally a TSW thread) just want to mention that the APT is a hell of a lot more fun to drive than the Pendolino.
     
  16. fabdiva

    fabdiva Well-Known Member

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    The Tilt system on the UK Pendolinos has nothing to do with the APT system, rather then use the Fiat system that used some APT tech, the UK Pendolino uses a Swiss system from SIG (also owned by Alstom)
     
  17. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    Are both Pendolino’s made by the same company ( Fiat? ) albeit with a different tilt system specced for the UK versions?

    Which tilt system is considered the best one, the Fiat system or the SIG one?
     
  18. fabdiva

    fabdiva Well-Known Member

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    The APT Tech was sold to Fiat, who combined it with their own passive tilt system and the result was the Pendolino.
    Meanwhile SIG were developing their own tilt system in Switzerland. I believe this was being planned for the 225s (as a possible retrofit) and 250s (the aborted new WCML fleet killed by impending privatisation)
    Later both companies were purchased by Alstom - I suspect the choice of SIG was because of the work for the IC250, they had designs that were UK compatible while the Fiat system had been UIC only up to that point.

    The UK Pendolinos were jointly built at the former Fiat plant and also at the former Metro-Cammell works in Birmingham
     
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  19. Yoinkermcskoinker

    Yoinkermcskoinker Well-Known Member

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  20. JasonARJ3125

    JasonARJ3125 Well-Known Member

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    Epic effort, shame it failed by 21 seconds due to a speed restriction at carstairs
     
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  21. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    To be honest they couldn't have picked a much worse time to do a record run, the mainlines are packed with Scotland (and England I'd imagine) fans heading to London.
     
  22. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    But they should have been going south where as the Pendolino’s record attempt was going north so the up line should have / would be busy but not the down.
     
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  23. fabdiva

    fabdiva Well-Known Member

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    Records are going to be trickier now anyway, given there is a lot more traffic than in the APTs day
     
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  24. andrewandjane66

    andrewandjane66 Active Member

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    IIRC they broke the southbound record several years ago. There was a DVD of the attempt that came with Railway Magazine.

    I also read somewhere that the northbound APT record had a five minute delay during the journey.
     
  25. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Let me see the reason why they were off by 21 seconds it has to do with Carstairs Junction having a 110 mph (180 km/h) speed restriction. South of that Junction its 125-155 mph (200-250 km/h).
     
  26. Olaf the Snowman

    Olaf the Snowman Well-Known Member

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    155mph? I don’t think so :D
    Linespeed is only 95mph through Carstairs. Max speed on the West Coast Mainline is 125mph.
     
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  27. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    (X Doubt)
     
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  28. JJTimothy

    JJTimothy Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. That record was much easier to crack though- about four and a quarter hours with the Pendolino making it in around 3:55.

    Post three? :D

    I admit that I got that from an article about the APT in the Friends of Darlington Railway Centre and Museum Newsletter... which I wrote (from a talk by Kit Spackman) so... I can't now remember whether that came from notes I took at the talk or my own research afterwards though I did clear the item with Kit before it was published.
     
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  29. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    They broke the record today for the most number of scotsmen travelling from Glasgow to London for no apparent reason.
     
  30. JJTimothy

    JJTimothy Well-Known Member

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    When driving the APT speed limits are set by the C-APT, an in cab signalling system, and they can be up to 155mph (in Train Simulator at least and that speed was readily attainable IRL). Perhaps that was what came to mind.
     
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  31. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely correct and that was I was thinking of the Class 370 APT which has that signalling system installed
     
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  32. JJTimothy

    JJTimothy Well-Known Member

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    Forgive me for bringing up Train Simulator again in what is ostensibly a TSW thread but the implications of this have just occured to me- Carstairs is in the WCML North route whilst scenarios with C-APT activation points set up are only available for WCML Over Shap (and a recent one for Trent Valley but just using the usual speed limits). Has someone set up CAPT for WCML North?

    Anyway- just heard from Kit Spackman who is not displeased that the P-Train's record still stands. He mentioned that many curves on the WCML have been eased since the APT's day amongst other track and signalling improvements but also pointed out that she was allowed to run at 140mph.
     
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  33. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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  34. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    You can look at this run as a win. It’s the fastest time without cheating. The APT’s reputation was tainted because of the cheating (which was later proved to be in cahoots with the biased race organisers) and was banned from all future competitions. It retired in shame, never to run again, and was vilified in the UK press for its poor character. The Pendolino will be hailed as a sporting hero for the rest of time. Hurrah.
     
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  35. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Not the first time something from England came up against Scotland and failed to impress...
     
  36. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

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    So the record was made in 1984 (37 years ago) and still hasn't been beaten xD. Reminds me of how we haven't gone back to the moon in 48 years (Apollo 17 in December 1972) or how the transatlantic speed record of 2 hours 52 minutes and 59 seconds (BAF Concorde) has stood unbeaten for 25 years (1996). Hmmm :|
     
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  37. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    Well maybe with the New Boom the transatlantic speed record will get beaten?
     

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