Reversed Train Toward Station

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by montes_1234, May 25, 2020.

  1. montes_1234

    montes_1234 Well-Known Member

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    I have been at the TVL route driving class 31. It was some service which calls all stops. When approaching the station Tees Side Airport I started braking late and overshot the station so that not single coach was on the platform range. So I reversed the locomotive into the station and by doing so I have passed the signal and corectly stopped the train at the station. When finished loading of passengers I could not proceed passed that signal because it was turned red when I passed it in reverse movement. So I checked the map and nothing was in front of me. I than contacted the signaler and they did't want to let me pass. So is this normal like it should be, or maybe I did something wrong in the process of reverse action?
     
  2. Jeannot41

    Jeannot41 Well-Known Member

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    You have to stop before the fire. If you pass it, it will never turn green.
     
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  3. montes_1234

    montes_1234 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the reply. But why is that the case, is it not that it should turn green again if we don't have the train in front of us?
     
  4. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    In real life (in the UK) you would get on the telephone, confess to the over-run, and beg the signaller to change the light back to green. And then when you got back to the Depot, you would not be allowed any hot chocolate out of the drinks machine for an entire week, as punishment.

    In real life (in Japan) you would get on the telephone, confess to the over-run, and beg the signaller to change the light back to green. And then when you got back to the Depot, you would be told to not turn up for driving duty for three months, and you would be sent back to do very basic driver training. All of your colleagues would know about this, and a lot of drivers will quit their job because of the shame.

    In TSW, however.... you can try a naughty trick.... if you find yourself behind a red light that you caused by passing it, but you have reversed back through... then..... if you creep through it at 0.1 mph, then the signal will not realise that you are there, and you can pass through it.... But don't tell anyone that I told you that. ;-)

    -------------------------------
    EDIT: Corrected to say "over-run" instead of "SPAD" ;-O
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2020
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  5. Olaf the Snowman

    Olaf the Snowman Well-Known Member

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    With automatic signals that are controlled by the passage of trains, yes it should go to a proceed aspect in normal circumstances. The way it is controlled is either by track circuit or axle counters so either way when you reverse back, the track equipment should be able to figure out that the section is clear thus allowing the signal to step up to a proceed aspect. In any case, as you’ve done a wrong direction move, it would be done under strict instructions from the signaller so you would speak to the signaller before and after the move is complete. If the signal was unable to be cleared for any reason, the signaller would give you permission to go passed it.

    I’m confused, no SPAD occurred so why would you confess to that? It’s a station overrun.
     
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  6. montes_1234

    montes_1234 Well-Known Member

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    Yes it was not SPAD but overrun and through green signal.
     
  7. montes_1234

    montes_1234 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the answer. So my conclusion is that the signaler in TSW didn't heard about the posibility to change the signal back to green in that case. :)
     
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  8. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Yes you are right....! I was so keen to get my joke in about the hot chocolate, that I had a complete brain fade....

    Right - I am off to get myself a cup of coffee.... I have been off the hot chocolate for a while now.... ;-)
     
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  9. FileTrekker

    FileTrekker Member

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    If you overrun the station you shouldn't really set back without a lot of phone calls and paperwork to be filled out afterward, however. That much is true. Basically, if you overshoot the station that badly you've screwed the pooch and should just probably call it a day and start again.
     
  10. montes_1234

    montes_1234 Well-Known Member

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    But I am not sure that this is the case in reality. So if what you said is truth than train driver when overshoot the station should just exit from the locomotive and walk in the uknown direction. :)
     
  11. Olaf the Snowman

    Olaf the Snowman Well-Known Member

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    First part of what he/she said is true. I’m guessing by the second part he/she is referring to playing on TSW as in restart the game rather than in real life.

    I wrote on a different thread the full procedure in real life if you overrun a station (in the UK):

     
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  12. FileTrekker

    FileTrekker Member

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    How do you mean?

    When you overshoot a platform your first job is to stop and contact the signaller, doubly so if you've entered the next block section.
    You can't just reverse back into the platforms. What if another train has entered the section behind you?

    You must do nothing without the express permission of the signaller. This can take a little while to arrange for the train to pull back into the station. When you overshoot a station like that there's going to be an investigation. You could possibly be pulled off duty at the next available opportunity or the train taken out of service unless there's some very obvious cause such as poor railhead conditions, but this would still be investigated.

    While not quite as serious as a SPAD it certainly is a meeting with a driver trainer/supervisor and if it turns out, as it was in this case, you 'forgot' to break in time, well, you'd be in some trouble.

    I know it's a video game but it's not entirely unreasonable for the game not to expect this scenario. If you overshoot a station that badly it's a bad day at the office, and as it's a simulation, it's usually the point where I, personally, throw the towel in.
     
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  13. montes_1234

    montes_1234 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. You greatly and in detail explained the procedure. But for now we should just restart the game or creep pass red signal on foot pulling the train at speed no greather than could be achieved. :)
     
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  14. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I was once asked by a fairly experienced Depot Manager (in the UK) for informal advice on whether it would ever be "okay" to reverse out of a depot... all the way to a major London terminus (a few miles), with the driver sitting in the cab at the back end of the train, if you "knew" that you had a clear path to the station buffers (at say 3.00am), but contrary to the "explicit" wording in the Rule Book.

    I was quite shocked....And I said "No - no it wouldn't. But.... if you've done a risk assessment for the procedure, and you are content that all of the risks have been adequately managed, which seems to me to be almost impossible, and you have sought authorisation from someone that is competent to give that authoriastion... then maybe. But it flies in the face of 150 years of safe railway operation and experience.... so why would you want to do it....?"

    And he said "The drivers sometimes do it if they are running late, and don't want to waste time walking down the length of the train to set-off using the London-end cab. They routinely reverse around within the depot confines, and well, does it make that much difference to take it all the way to the terminus....? ". And I said "Maybe you should tell them to stop.... and to manage their duties so that they don't run late....?"
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2020
  15. montes_1234

    montes_1234 Well-Known Member

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    But what is to bad. Overshooted the station by meters not miles. Also any train which would be behind will be stopped at red signal two blocks away. So this procedure surely isn't something that is unknown or really strange. So that the train driver is human after all and surelly can make mistake. But also after that mistake that particular train should be able to be moved from that spot to prevent some further delays. So for the signalmen it is better to be willing to change that signal to green or some major delay would be incoming.
     
  16. FileTrekker

    FileTrekker Member

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    What do you mean by a few meters though?

    If the front of the train is a few meters past the stop board, maybe not.
    If the entire train is a few meters past the platform end, then you've done goofed.
     
  17. montes_1234

    montes_1234 Well-Known Member

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    That is why we need info on wagon, coaches and locos lenght. I overshoot it by class 31 loco which was pulling class 101 with two cars. So few meters after the end of train.
     
  18. Olaf the Snowman

    Olaf the Snowman Well-Known Member

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    Station overruns in real life where it is down to the driver misjudging their braking are exceptionally rare. The main reason why station overruns happen is because you forget you're stopping and when you realise you are, it’s too late so you overrun the station (or it’s called a Fail to Call if you don’t even attempt to stop). But as I say, actually misjudging your braking is very rare; perhaps a few during the autumn season due to low adhesion. You have to remember in real life, drivers are experts in train handling and generally adopt a defensive approach. If you are able to post a video, I could advise further and comment on your braking technique.
     
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  19. montes_1234

    montes_1234 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. So just one thing to clear out. If you overshoot the station in TSW you can not proceed further? If this is the case, than the message should appear saying you overshoot the station. Like this it feels not completed because it want let you even continue toward the next station. Previous will be present in the upper left corner no matter what you do.
     
  20. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    If you over shoot a bit you can just open the doors and the trip will carry on as normal. I’ve never overshot where the whole train has passed the station but the game will allow you to open the doors as long as there is a small portion of the train still at the station. It’s not realistic but it does mean you can carry on with your trip. You will still know that you overshot and can deal with the shame in your own way by having one less cake with your supper or other suitable punishment.
     
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  21. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    In TSW.... you can try a naughty trick.... if you find yourself behind a red light that you caused by passing it, but you have reversed back through... then..... if you creep through it at 0.1 mph, then the signal will not realise that you are there, and you can pass through it.... But don't tell anyone that I told you that. ;-)

    I have done the above, having seen someone do it on YouTube. And it works. Funnily enough, by complete coinicdence.... I did this on TVL, in a Class 31 pulling the 101, at the airport station stop. You don't have to wait for the whole train to pass through at 0.1mph - as soon as your loco is through, you can get back on the power.
     
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  22. montes_1234

    montes_1234 Well-Known Member

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    Whery good resolution.
     
  23. DeanO55

    DeanO55 Member

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    P.P.
    Thanks Pal, that's some great advice I can use in the future, I'm forever over running due to lack of concentration or distractions.
     
  24. montes_1234

    montes_1234 Well-Known Member

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    I am wondering if the preserved team are aware of this. So if after passing green signal you roll back just before that signal it will never turn green no matter if there are no single train two or three blocks away in either direction.
     

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