Route Rheintalbahn: Mannheim–strasbourg & Offenburg

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by WonterRail, Sep 25, 2021.

  1. WonterRail

    WonterRail Well-Known Member

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    So after I did that piece on North London Line, I thought that would be the last that I would cover on routes that would make great 'Rush Hour' style routes as I had pretty much gone through all the more popular ones that featured on that thread and subsequently voted on by you in the poll and thought it would be best to leave it at that and move on.

    However, I have decided to come back and talk about a few more routes that featured on the thread, which may or may not have been sparked by the recent announcement regarding TS 2022 this past week. While the route I am about to talk didn't get many votes in the poll (in fact, it was one of the least voted on routes out there that featured) I still want to talk about it as it's a route that has great potential to make a really awesome TSW2 route and considering that it is going to be part of the Deluxe Edition of TS 2022, kinda makes a TSW2 version inevitable at some point, and that is the new Bahnstrecke Strasbourg – Karlsruhe. But what I am about to suggest here is not just that, that's not the route I originally suggested back in that thread, the route I am going to suggest here takes that section between Strasbourg and Karlsruhe and adds on the Rhine Bahn up to Mannheim to from a route that I have now called, Rheintalbahn. From Mannheim to Karlsruhe and on to Strasbourg (and Offenburg). But as you see, this suggestion didn't begin like this...

    What he said in that post (Version 1)

    Now before we go any further, if you like to see the rest off the routes that featured in that thread and vote in the poll if you haven't already, go check it out by clicking on the link here. Plus, down below is all the other routes that I have done extended suggestions on based on the more popular routes that featured on the thread. Go check them out by simply clicking on the route you would like to check out, and stick around as well, as I have two more suggestions to come after this that focus on two more routes that I put up in that thread that are becoming part of the core three routes that make up TS 2022:
    Now normally this is the part where I talk about the route itself and what I would contain, but before I do going into that, I have a story to tell you.

    How the route ended up like this

    Now as you have already seen, originally this route suggestion began life as just The Rhine Bahn between Mannheim and Karlsruhe and honestly, out of all the routes that featured in the thread, it was the route that I was the least satisfied with. I mean, when writing about it, I was struggling to come up with things to say about it as simply put, it properly is the least interesting route out of the ones that I brought up. It's might have a decent amount of traffic running on it in real life, but I wouldn't call it a inspiring timetable as most services would be full line runs with the odd service that runs between Mannheim & Graben-Neudorf. Plus, apart from it's two main stations on either end and the big yard at Mannheim, it's not really a memorable route with very little in the way of note in between. Some could argue that I could of included the section up to Frankfurt, but at the time I wrote that, I already had a few routes in mind that did just that (one that made the thread and another that didn't) so I was left stuck with just this slightly dull, uninspiring route that I generally wasn't happy with.

    But then, everything changed when I saw one reply that gave an idea on how to improve the route. Specifically, this one:

    Now, when I first saw that reply, I was admittedly rather hesitant to go all the way to Strasbourg as I didn't want to make this route too long. I had already extended another route that featured in that same thread, but that was because it was just within what I would call a reasonable route length of TSW2. But after thinking about it, and what would ultimately be the deciding factor was A; It would add a lot more services on this route, espcially down in the bottom section south of Karlsruhe B: I could add a lot more trains to this route and C: It would open up more layering potential on this route.

    Some after making some minor adjustments to the suggestion, the end result was this...

    What he said in that post (Version 2)

    …and soon, you will find out that I have even added more in terms of locos ever since I rewrote that. But first, let's see what this would all look like on a map.

    Map of the Whole Route
    Rheintalbahn 1.PNG
    Section out of Mannheim towards Hockenheim
    Rheintalbahn 2.PNG
    Section around Waghäusel
    Rheintalbahn 3.PNG
    Section between Karlsruhe & Rastatt
    Rheintalbahn 4.PNG
    Section between Renchen & Strasbourg-Ville & Offenburg
    Rheintalbahn 5.PNG

    So what started as just the section between Mannheim and Karlsruhe has now turned into a route that is a grand total of 141.8 Miles (228.3 km) long, the longest route suggestion that I have made so far, which includes the main route between Mannheim and Strasbourg, the spur down to Offenburg, the various deviations to places such as Friedrichsfeld & Schwetzingen and the too paths between Karlsruhe and Rastatt that go via either Durmersheim or Ettlingen West. For stations, there are a total of 44 of them and this route also the 3 main depots and yards each at Mannheim, Karlsruhe, Strasbourg and Offenburg (Or at least, of what I was able to find as finding information about German depots and yards, especially the former is actually quite difficult).

    So this route is quite big eh? Admittedly, I think it's a little too big compared to what TSW2 routes usually turn out as, but I am far happier with how this turned out compared to what this originally started out as. For me, there are several things that make this route massively appealing. Firstly, it splits and comes back together several times. Firstly, out of Mannheim, the route either goes down the high-speed line, down to S-Bahn line via Rheinau and the freight line that goes via the marshalling yard and Friedrichsfeld. With the later two joining back up at Schwetzingen before joining back with the high-speed line at Hockenheim, although the S-Bahn line briefly diverts to Waghäusel with the High-speed line being allowed to bypass it. The route then splits again just south of Karlsruhe either via Durmersheim or Ettlingen before joining back up again at Rastatt before the route divides one more time at Appenweier where trains go the their respective destinations at either Strasbourg or Offenburg. This gives a lot of paths to explore both driving and on foot and a lot of different service patterns at the same time.

    Secondly, this route has a lot of big freight yards. Mainly at Mannheim, Karlsruhe and Offenburg. The former two being the most interesting for me as Mannheim's yard is the largest of the three, has a loco depot at the east side of the yard and is a big part of that diversion via Friedrichsfeld, and Karlsruhe's yard is part of a diversion which allows freight services to bypass Karlsruhe Hbf while passing through the area. All of these yards would also offer the potential for shunting services, but more on that later.

    Finally, and probably the biggest selling point of this route, it is a fast route. On the high-speed sections, the fastest that trains can reach on this route is 155 mph (250 kph), the same as Köln-Aachen. But this route length would put it at a major advantage over that route as would be able to go faster for longer. Plus, some high-speed sections, mainly between Karlsruhe and Appenweier, run right alongside the normal slow line, which would allow these services to overtake the normal stopping services, which in turn would create would create some awesome shots of high-speed trains racing and overtaking trains on the slow line.

    One more thing of note, I have also included Karlsruhe Albtalbahnhof station, which is served by Stadtbahn services, as part of this route. While these services wouldn't be included as part of this route, the inclusion of that station is a future-proofing measure should these services come in the future, but more on that later.

    Some I think I've done enough talking, time to show you what this route looks like in real life.

    Pictures of the route in real life

    Mannheim Hbf
    [​IMG]
    Mannheim Marshalling Yard
    [​IMG]
    Karlsruhe
    [​IMG]
    Karlsruhe Freight Yard
    [​IMG]
    Rastatt
    [​IMG]
    Appenweier
    [​IMG]
    Rhine Bridge, Kehl
    [​IMG]
    Strasbourg-Ville
    [​IMG]
    Offenburg Freight Yard
    [​IMG]
    Offenburg
    [​IMG]

    Available Locos

    When this route was just Mannheim-Karlsruhe, I could only come up with two locos to come with this route, but when adding in the bit down to Strasbourg & Offenburg, I added another loco to the roster and even since I rewrote it, I have expanded the roster even further so that this route now has 5 locos that this route could potential come with. This route would also have locos come in from other routes that would add their own services on top of what's already available, but we will get into that later. For now, let's focus on what could be available with this route.

    DB BR 407 'New ICE 3'
    [​IMG]
    What would probably be the star loco of this route, these units are like the ICE 3's that we have now, but wider, quieter, more-energy saving and more reliable than their predecessor. They are part of the Siemens Velaro family with them given the title of Velaro D for these specific units, which is also shared with the Class 374 that were brought into service with Eurostar and are mainly designed for international services to France, Belgium and the Netherlands. For this route, they would mainly operate services over to Strasbourg and on towards Paris, running either the entire length of the route from Mannheim, or joining the route at Karlsruhe and continuing on from there.

    I should also say here that out of the 5 locos that this route could have, 3 of them are high-speed trains with this being the first of them.

    SNCF Euroduplex
    [​IMG]
    The second of which would bring the French favour to this route. As it is a route that goes in France, I thought it would be suiting to feature a French loco with this route. This I would describe as the same loco available with LGV Méditerranée, but have additional equipment to allow them to work on other railway networks in Europe, including this one. These would do the same as the previous loco, running services out of Strasbourg and going either to Karlsruhe or going all the way to Mannheim and the same in reverse.

    DB BR 403 ICE 3
    [​IMG]
    Now I originally had this as just an additional layer from either Köln – Aachen or München – Augsburg, but I decided to add this to available roster as the last high-speed loco available with the route so that Offenburg has a couple of services going to it that doesn't require anything from other routes in TSW2. But this would just be the same as the unit from München – Augsburg as it would come in the old livery with the unrefurbished interior. These would operate similar services to the previous two high-speed trains that I have just mentioned, but instead of going to Strasbourg, they would go to Offenburg and then on towards Basel and beyond.

    So now we've gone through the high-speed stuff, time for something a little slower.

    DB BR 425
    [​IMG]
    Making a return from Hauptstrecke Rhein-Ruhr, these units are typically used on Rhine-Neckar S-Bahn services on this region. I would imagine they would come with some minor enhancements, plus a much brighter livery than the one we currently have now. For services, they would only be limited to the first portion of the route between Mannheim and Karlsruhe, running RB2 services along that section via the regional/S-Bahn line, with some services terminating at Graben-Neudorf during off peak times.

    DB BR 185.2
    [​IMG]
    You know how people complain that there is a faded Railion logo on the 185.2 that's available with Ruhr-Sieg Nord, even though that's how it looks in real life? Well I decided to thrown into this route a version of that logo that doesn't have that faded logo just to finally shut them up! And yes, that version does exist too you know (Laughs nervously inside).

    No, but in all seriousness, for freight on this route, I originally just had this be an additional layer from other German routes we already had, but with the large freight yards that this route has, I felt like that would not do them justice, so I decided to place this in as the freight loco for this route. These services would operate out of the three big yards this route offers. These services also take a wide variety patterns that is rarely seen with freight services on TSW2.

    For wagons, since this route has some rather large yards, I thought we might as well make the most of them by having a large diversity of freight wagons to come with them. I have got here 9 wagons that could come with this route. Two of which begin now, these new wagons are:

    Eaos Open Wagon (Used for general purposes)
    [​IMG]
    Rils Flat Covered Wagon (Kinda like a longer version of the Shimmns-TTU's that we currently have now).
    [​IMG]

    The rest of the wagons are all reused from other routes and loco add-ons. To run them down, they would be:
    • Habbiins 344 Wagon
    • Laaers 560 Car Transporter Wagon
    • Roos-t 645 Log Wagon
    • Sggmrss Container Wagon
    • Shimmns-U 708
    • Uacns Cement Wagon
    • Zacns Tank Wagon
    On top of all this, all of the German freight locos that we currently have in TSW2, would be able to substitute into these services, just like every all the other German routes we have.

    Speaking of substituting/layering...

    Additional services from other routes

    Like I said earlier, this was the main reason why I decided to extend the route to Strasbourg and Offenburg, as it would open a lot more layering opportunities, both with the stuff we currently have and would could come after release. For stuff we already have in TSW2, I could think of three additional types of service that could run on this route.

    The first of which is IC/EC services using the DB BR 101 and IC coaches from said add-on. These would operate in a similar manor to the ICE 3's, operating from either Mannheim or Karlsruhe down to Offenburg and beyond.

    The second of RE services using the DB BR 146.2 and Dostos from Main Spessart Bahn. If the 425 was limited to top portion of the route, then these would take charge of regional services in the bottom portion between Karlsruhe and Offenburg and on towards Basel.

    The final type of services that could be added from other routes and loco add-ons is shunting services using the DB BR 363 from both the loco add-on of the same name and from Riesa – Dresden. These services would happen in the three big yards at Mannheim, Karlsruhe and Offenburg as these locos prepare and shunt freight trains to be taken out.

    Future Loco Add-Ons

    Into the final part here, when it comes to what could be added to this route in the future, I'm sure there are lots of ideas for locos that could be added to this route after it potentially releases as this route does have a large variety of locos running on it in real life. But for this section, I am going to focus on four in Particular. But first, let's get the obvious two out the way.

    Stadtbahn GT8-100D/2SM
    [​IMG]
    You know when I mentioned that while these services won't be represented with the route, the Albtalbahn station at Karlsruhe would be as a future-proofing measure should they come in the future? Well, here they are. These services would start at Karlsruhe at either the main Hbf or Albtalbahnhof and then join onto the route either operating S7/8 services Durmersheim or S71/81 services via Ettlingen West. When they come back together at Rastatt, S8/81 services turn off the route heading towards Forbach (Schwarzwald), leaving S7/71 services to continue on to their final destination at Achern.

    Stadler Regio-Shuttle RS1
    [​IMG]
    If we already have services coming from Mannheim/Karlsruhe into Strasbourg, then it would be fitting to at some point also feature the shuttle services that travel to Offenburg. They would be operated by this loco which would feature in Ortenau S-Bahn livery and operate with two of them coupled together.

    Conclusion on the next post...
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2022
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  2. WonterRail

    WonterRail Well-Known Member

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    Vossloh G1000 BB
    [​IMG]

    Made by the same company as the Vossloh G6 that's coming to Rhein-Ruhr Osten, this loco would kinda service as an extension onto the 363 services already here, but would also bring in garbage services that would mostly work in the top portions between Mannheim & Karlsruhe. The loco would come in Red AVG Cargo livery and come with specialized Sgs container wagons which are used to carry garbage containers.
    [​IMG]

    SNCF Class BB 37000
    [​IMG]

    This loco would both fully complete the SNCF side of this route, and would give this route a freight loco that is more interesting than just a slightly different DB BR 185.2. From what I could gather, SNCF mainly operates freight services in the top portion of the route between Mannheim and Karlsruhe, which is where this loco will mainly operate around. As well as subbing into services that already take place on that section, it would also add a few more freight services using the Habiss Covered Wagon, as seen down below.
    [​IMG]
    This loco would also add freight services coming from the Strasbourg end of the route, but would change to a DB BR 185.2 when crossing over into Germany.

    Conclusion


    You know this is a rather large route with a rather large story when I have to put the conclusion and image sources on a second post on this thread as this entire suggestion surpasses the character limit for a single post on this forum. But regardless of whether this route happens, or how this route would eventually end up like, whether it would just be Mannheim-Karlsruhe or Karlsruhe-Strasbourg & Offenburg, or both segments combined, this is probably one of my favourite route suggestions that I have made on this forum so far. Simply put, this route has so much going for it. It has a decent amount of traffic running on it, has a large variety of locos, both with the route and also from other stuff already available in TSW2, has what would be some of the biggest yards to feature in TSW2 to date, features so many paths between it's major destinations and would easily be the largest route in TSW2 to date and also offer one of the best High-Speed experiences that we have seen in TSW2 to date. The traffic levels on this route peak and valley as you would travel throughout the route with some portions being rather hectic like the main stations along this route, while other parts would be more calm and offer time to enjoy the route like on the S-Bahn line between Mannheim & Karlsruhe. Also, for someone like me, who likes to go off on foot and explore parts of a route that many people wouldn't normally see, I could only imagine what explore this route on foot would like, especially as this route as has a few yards that spur off the route that although I haven't brought up, I would still like to see these represented on this route. To end this off, if what we are getting next week is anything to go by, I feel like this route, or at least some part of this route, will come to TSW2 at some point. If you where to go back how quickly DTG where to adapt Riesa – Dresden for TSW2, and like that route, some routes really come alive when you add bits onto that maybe wasn't there previously to create what would be the largest, most diverse and most fun German route to ever come to TSW2.

    Before I do get out of here, I would like to give a massive shout to driverwoods#1787 who gave me the idea for extending this route down to Strasbourg & Offenburg. Without that reply, this route would A: Still be Mannheim–Karlsruhe and B: be nowhere near as fun or as engaging as the end result turned out to be.

    As always, if you have any ideas that you would like to see on this route, or there's something that can be done differently with this route, do feel free to let me know in the replies down below.

    That's all from me and I'll see you for the next route.

    Image Sources:
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2021
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  3. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    You might need to consider SNCF BB37000 dlc locomotive to give access to Triage Strasbourg Neudorf. The French equivalent to Rangierbanhof Mannheim Offenburg. DB BR185.0 should be your Cross border freight locomotive because 185.2 lacks a 1.45m pantographs Carbon strip SNCF 25kv CFF 15kv 16.7hz. The interesting part here will be French Trains on PZB Sifa reverse is German trains using KVB with Sifa modified to run on VACMA. DB BR406 has a Variant capable of running French tracks the DB BR406 MF multi-system France. Requires KVB installed on SKA DB BR406.
     
  4. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for giving me a shout out. By the way I mentioned SNCF BB37000 the cross border freight locomotive.
     
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  5. WonterRail

    WonterRail Well-Known Member

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    Just done a few adjustments to the suggestion here:
    • Moved the Vossloh G1000 loco add-on suggestion to the second post in order for me to firstly better describe what this loco actually does on this route and secondly so I can put in the freight wagon that would come with this loco
    • I've decide to take another suggestion by driverwoods#1787 and added the SNCF Class BB 37000 as a loco add-on that would with this route in the future, along with giving it a wagon to go alongside it. This also impacts how freight services going to Strasbourg happen on this route, as you will see.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2021
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  6. colinL

    colinL Well-Known Member

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    Hey, as a local I'd just like to say thank you for making such a great suggestion! Although I am admittably late to the party I'd absolute love to see this route in TSW2. I already had Mannheim-Karlsruhe in Train Simulator and really liked it. The only thing is, that I live trackside along the line that runs Mannheim-Karlsruhe but via Heidelberg and Bruchsal and I'd die to see it represented someday in a Train Simulator. But this is the next best thing and would also be enough :D (on said part there is a waste disposal site shortly before Bruchsal, where the mentioned Vossloh G1000 could have quite some work to do!). Anyways, this would be a dream for anybody that likes German content, as the variety that would be possible would be insane. Although I think that has also got to do with the route length and the longer the route the more variety you can possibly get out of it, generally speaking. The only thing I noticed is: You mentioned the Velaro D. From my experiences, most ICE's I've seen on the highspeed line are either ICE1's or ICE4's. But maybe those don't run to Strasbourg. I just kinda wanna see a ICE 4 or even better ICE 1 in TSW2 to be honest :|
    Anyways, I really hope that one day we'll see this route in TSW2 :love:
     
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  7. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Well said and Velaro D does run to Strasbourg Ville which is not seen in the TS22 version of Strasbourg Kehl Appenweier Karlsruhe Railway. After December 13th 2021 provided you own Riesa-Dresden or Rhein-Ruhr Osten and a future ÖBB route you get the MRCE BR185.5 pulling ÖBB Nightjet WLABmz coaches via this route. That one operates 04:11 Karlsruhe 05:16 Strasbourg Ville 09:42 Paris Est. Another night training on the route is the combined Berlin/Hamburg-Frankfurt Am Main-Mannheim-Karlsruhe Offenburg Zurich Nightjet service and it's pulled by DB BR101 from HRR with ÖBB Sleeper coaches the double Decker type Hamburg Zurich single level Berlin Zurich . 04:42 Mannheim 05:48 Offenburg
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2021
  8. creeperblox2710

    creeperblox2710 Well-Known Member

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    I really like this suggestion, however it could be possible to shorten the Route to Karlsruhe instead of going all the way to Mannheim. But other than that, really good suggestion.
     
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