Hi all, since Riesa - Dresden is still in early developement, we as a community still have a chance to make clear what our expectations and wishes. I'll list a few things I'd like to see on Riesa - Dresden below, feel free to comment what you'd like to see, I'll then add it to the list. Dresden-Friedrichstadt freight yard: This is a large yard inbetween Dresden Hbf and Dresden-Neustadt that would be great for the freight services with the MRCE BR 185.5 and possible shunting layers The correct level crossings: To my knowledge there aren't a lot of level crossings on the route, but those that are there should be the correct ones and types. (check out a thread about them here, Jo_Kim made a good comment on them) Sound updates for all included locos: all of the locos that will be included (except maybe the Talent 2) currently have sub-optimal sound to say the least. Improved/redone sounds would be great for the BR 143, 146.2 and 185.5. BR 363 & BR 204 layers: The BR 363 and BR 204 currently don't layer onto any other route, it would be great to see them get a layer here on shunting and local freight services (possibily with double traction) over the mainline, as there is plenty of oppertunity here, definetely if Dresden-Friedrichstadt and the Riesa docks are included. (check out a specific suggestion thread about them here) Pink ONE containers on freight wagons: This one speaks for itself, Matt already kind of confirmed this If the car tranport wagons are included again, different colours of cars: The cars on the current car transport wagons are all silver, it would be nice to see different colours randomly selected. Fully working destination displays on all locos, including line numbers: Currently the 143 in game has no working destination display at all, and the new information displays on the BR 112 for HHL lacks information about the service type and line number that would usually be there. The correct HL signals: This is one for the German experts. On Riesa - Dresden the East-German HL signals are used in some places, these are quite different to the ones in game. DTG did implement them on the TS version of the route, so I expect them to come here to. Maybe BR 182 passenger service layers: Up until december of 2015 the BR 182 was used on the Dresden S-bahn, so depending on the time it's set, it would be nice to see (personally, I'd be ok with it substituting even if the route is set after 2015, as long as it's player only and not AI). Additionaly, if there are IC services, it would be great to have the BR 182 haul IC coaches, but onceagain, only if the player chooses it, not on AI trians. The freight only line around Dresden-Neustadt: Just before Dresden-Pieschen (when coming from Riesa), a single track freight line that goes through a small frieght yard and rejoins after Dresden-Neustadt, thus avoiding the busy platforms there. This would be fun to see. The Docks at Riesa: At Riesa there are a few docks with rail acces, just outside of the station. The track here is non-electrified, so BR 363 and BR 204 layers would be required for this. (on Google maps you can even see a Unimog on the tracks here, wouldn't that be a unique DLC? ) A future ICE-T DLC: This train runs ICE services on Riesa-Dresden, and would make perfect sense as a loco add-on, even though implementing it's tilting function would require some work. Some kind of steel slab or coil flatcar for the steelworks at Riesa: This could provide some interesting freight services and rolling stock diversity. (if you have any wagon in mind, please let me know below, some of you are experts on them). Some kind of gravel hopper for the gravel mining just outside of Riesa: This could provide some interesting freight services and rolling stock diversity. (if you have any wagon in mind, please let me know below, some of you are experts on them). A tank wagon for the chemical works at Nünchritz: It is fine if the one already in game is used for this. Acces to the industrial yards at (including shunting where possible, and freight services to/from where possible, as this would provide way more diversity than just end to end freight runs): The steelworks at Riesa The gravel mining just outside of Riesa, at Ziethain The Chemical works at Nünchritz Moving scenery trams in Dresden: Currently, RRO in game features moving scenery in the form of the Wuppertal Schwebebahn. That is a really nice feature that adds life to the area, and it would be nice to see in Dresden in the form of trams, which Dresden has a lot of. I think some of these things (definetely the acces to industrial yards and the Riesa docks, including fitting rolling stock and BR 363/204 layers), could make Riesa - Dresden really great. Of course with the S-bahn branches the route is already promising, but I hope DTG includes some of the wishes above. Not all of them have the same level of importance (and they're not listed in any order), for example, correct destination displays and reworked sound is (much) more important than scenery trams and having acces to absolutely every freight yard including layers for the BR 363 and 204. However, all of the points listed above would be nice to see if possible, and some of them would truly make me jump through the roof. That's all I have for now, but I look forward to hearing your wishes . Dresden-Friedrichstadt freight yard
Yep, that's why I already said Matt kinda confirmed it. That's a really nice step to getting a little more variety.
In the first HBL/HHL(idk which one is right lol) stream, Matt said this was a bug, just not one that would be fixed before launch. So I would assume that it wouldn't be present in Dresden, which is a bit of good news.
I would to, but if we're making a wishlist anyways, it can't hurt to include them, to make absolutely clear we want them.
Very fair, I think that the service title is really important and that not including them would be both a big error, and a downgrade from previous destination screens.
Great thread! The line over Friedrichstadt doesn't fit in the alloted 105km length we can see on the Steam page, so I don't think the yard will be included. I think that's a shame as it's a vital part of the network and a missed opportunity to make freight more interesting. I'd prefer it over the Meißen branch, but that's just my opinion. It's mostly likely ONE's white containers. Hopefully we get some more freight wagons.
The only hope is that they somehow don't count yards as part of the route length, but that would surprise me. White ONE containers would also offer a nice variaton by the way.
I think Nat confirmed somewhere in the forum that the stock uses the improved sounds made by Adam's team. They talked about this in the last Hamburg-Lübeck stream. This is no easy fix. It seems to lower the framerates drastically. Let's see if they find a solution. I agree with all your point. I just don't think that a moving tram is sooo important. Yeah would be cool. But I can do without it very well as long as they use the development time in a smart way.
Yes, a lot of these points differ in importance. Quite a few are just 'hey, if it isn't too much work, this would be a nice little feature'-type wishes. Only
This a passenger oriented route, as part of the Rush Hour bundle, so passenger branches and movements will take priority over freight. Before the thread gets too big with a multitude of freight wishes, I just thought it was worth pointing out what the main focus is likely to be. I would hope that at some point a freight focused bundle might happen, with lots of yard work and such because that is missing in most TSW routes, with freight being mainly A to B runs. I think the freight in this route will follow the pattern from previous routes due to the Rush Hour thing taking precedence. It’ll be there but not in a major role I don’t think. A good list of wishes though and some that are vitally important to get right. DTG will know which ones I’m referring to, the stuff that is wrong in other DLC, such as the train information displays... Matt also said in the second stream that there is no guarantee that the missing route numbers would ever be fixed. Hopefully, the system will be updated for this route because rush hour commuters need to know what type of service they are getting on. He did seem keen to make sure it didn’t happen again, so I share your optimism on this.
Yeah, it's indeed passenger oriented, and Friedrichstadt wasn't on TS either, so my hopes are low. However, there is something fun about freight during Rush hour. You're the lowest priority and have to stop a lot so other trains can pass, which to me sounds more challenging and fun than A to B freight traffic.
As luck would have it, though, the almost-guaranteed loco DLC for NEC will be the Acela, and that also is a tilting train, so DTG are going to have to figure out tilting anyway.
This route looks very promising already, more BR204 and 363 layers would be the perfect icing on the cake. I love the idea of using the BR182 for passenger, but player only. It should be possible, they can set the chances of one spawning in AI trains, if it can't be set to 0, a very low chance would be fine. About the ICE-T, yes, wouldn't it be cool if they also made a "Tilting Trains Pack" with the ICE-T and the Acela and sold it for just a bit less than both trains combined? Obviously 2 different stand alone versions would be there for people that care about only 1 train. Anyway I love tilting trains and I would love the ICE-T in particular Implementing the correct signals is a must, and hopefully it won't introduce too many bugs
You mean as player only right? Yes, that would be ideal (if the route isn't set in 2015 or earlier). All in all I think the BR 182 should get some more passenger layers on routes, and here it could have both IC services and S-bahn services (both player only).
Personally I would've loved to see rolling stock that isn't yet another 442, 143, 146 or 185. Some older rolling stock would've been awesome, but anything that's actually notably different would've been nice.
I have noticed though that cars on the car wagons in real life have white plastic on them, likely to protect the paint during transport. So white cars wouldn’t be too unrealistic. They could just be wrapped up.
Yes if DTG wants to keep the one color cars on the autoracks they should wrap them like this to look more realistic. Sadly the part with the freight yard will not be included only the route you see in the screenshot.
I am really hoping for these two. For the PIS (and also sound), all these trains should get them properly. Since the line type missing on HHL is supposedly a mistake, I hope it will be correctly implemented here. For the Hl signals, I really hope they do a better job as with the Ks signals, although I have my doubts it will be accurate, especially when implemented the first time.
Currently several routes have bugs/faults in the Ks signal behavior when approaching a red signal. On at least parts of HRR (Essen - Bochum) and HMA (slow line between Maisach and Mammendorf) there will be yellow Ks-signals without PZB activation followed by a second yellow signal with PZB activation. So I really hope DTG will not bring along these bugs/faults to Dresden-Riesa.
My hope exactly. I reported these bugs (even more of them), but not sure they will get fixed. But now when setting up this new system, i hope they take the time to make it correct, easier for everyone
Just realised... if the route is going via Radebeul Ost there should be some narrow gauge track for the (very good) Lößnitzgrundbahn steam railway that is there. Might be a hint of something else in the future...
Excellent idea and if made you have DB BR411/415 ICE-T DB BR612 & DB BR611. The last two are diesel tilting trains that can layer on to Main Spessart Bahn Aschaffenburg Port Shuttle. Also forum member palme111100 made a Suggestion for DB BR610 that can also fit in the bundle you described.
No route in the history of TSW has had such a variety of services and trains. Only switching is missing. Let's pray together \o/ \o/ \o/
I'm probably making some enemies here but I feel like Riesa-Dresden would still have great value with all the branch lines if it was released without a switching locomotive and this later came as a 13€ DLC. I mean it already has more content than most stand-alone 30€ German routes. But obviously, if switching was included I would be very happy (don't hurt me).
You people are really heading for a big disappointment. From the original article FAQ: What are the locomotives featured in Rush Hour? Amtrak ACS-64 and MBTA F40PH-3C on Northeast Corridor: Boston - Providence. Southern BR Class 377/4 and Gatwick Express BR Class 387 EMUs on the Brighton Main Line: London Victoria - Brighton. Deutsche Bahn's BR 442, BR 143, BR 146.2 in DB livery and BR 185.5 in MRCE black livery on Bahnstrecke Riesa - Dresden.
You are right. And this is the max so far in TSW. Why be disappointed then? The information you quoted is in-pack-included only, but there will be (confirmed) much more available to drive, etc.
I completely agree, Riesa - Dresden is already very good based on just the information recieved so far. This list is in no way meant as a 'if it doesn't include all this I'll whine forever about DTG being lazy, etc,', and more of a 'if you can include this it would be nice, I hope it's not too much effort'. Of course there are some things from the list I do (personally) see as absolutely neccesary (the big ones like improved sounds over the current versions of the included locos, PIS that includes the line numbers and proper HL signals), but in general the list is more a suggestion than a demand. Personally I would really enjoy it if the already existing switchers got some simple services, and that has more to do with those swithcers currently lacking value (due to their lack of layering onto other routes), than it has with Riesa - Dresden not being worth the money. A switcher (like the BR 294) could also be a good DLC for Riesa - Dresden, but it doesn't seem like a freight focussed route, so I'm not expecting it.
I am fully aware of that. When talking about switchers, that is in reference to layers (so locomotives that don't come with the Rush Hour release and are already in game like the BR 204 and 363. These can add service 'layers' to new routes like Riesa - Dresden for the people that already own these add-ons, but will not be available for people that just have Rush Hour). Locos that 'layer in' are never mentioned in the list of included rolling stock (as in what locomotives are featured). Take for example HMA, that features the BR 423 and 403, but (on PC) has many other locomotives from older DLC's 'layering in'. Currently not much is known about the layers we'll see on the Rush Hour routes (the BR 101 and 406 have been speculated for Riesa - Dresden, but they mentioned in a stream that no definitive choice on which locos would provide layers was made yet).
Some theory. Steam Rush Hour description: DB BR 406 ICE 3M is SKA train, TSW 2 main package included train. So - what is this about - required? Rush Hour will be a bundle or stand-alone package? There is also information: Maybe it's a mistake. The question is in which aspect
It will most definetely be a bundle, and not a stand-alone package based on the answers they gave to questions about that. The ICE layers requiring the BR 406 is just a case of wording it weirdly. On top of that, they said in the Rush Hour stream, that the ICE layers weren't decided definetively on yet (weird to include them on steam already than), as the 406 on Riesa - Dresden wouldn't be realistic. Discussions about which locos would provide which kind of layers were still ongoing at the point of the Rush Hour stream a few weeks ago.
I agree on all accounts. The most important things for me in this "sub" DLC (Riesa-Dresden) is improved sounds for the BR143,BR146 and BR185, fixed signals (no obvious bugs like yellow signal followed by yellow signal with no PZB activation on the first) and fixed physics. DTG has been responsive to the last point (brake physics) and hopefully I can give enough data/feedback so that these will be realistic when the DLC is released. I'm also planning to release a thread going over all the German trains included and what realistic physics would mean for these, in the coming weeks (inspired by londonmidland 's excellent thread for Cathcar Circle). That way DTG can at least have an extra input to what they should strive for (in addition to the data they get from their expert beta testers) which will hopefully prevent any need for bug fixing.
Since they improved the sound of the 182 in Hamburg-Lübeck, I'm very sure this will also be done with the Locos in DR.
I think it was a mix between that thread and the British OLE thread, and I somehow misremembered it as a thread about the Cathcart Circle hehe.
Give me Gravita and I'm flooding DTG with my money But seriously, this shunter now appears basically everywhere in Germany, so why not?
We actually already have steel coil cars in the game: The Shimmns wagons. I still wouldn't mind an uncovered steel coil car. If so I would really like the 6-axle "monsters" such as Samms 710 or Sahmms 711. Check out this link. For gravel hoppers they could add the 4-axle Fas 126 or the Facns/Facs wagon (link) or the 2-axle Tds/Tdgs wagons (link). I don't think the Eaos/Eanos wagons usually transport gravel (more likely just scrap) but it would be really nice to have that wagon in the game and it is very similar to the wagon already featured for the Class 66. EDIT: Of course I have data such as brake force (empty/loaded, switch-at-weight) and mass (empty/loaded) available for these
Didn’t they talk about rolling stock in the rush hour announce stream? I recall Matt saying something along the lines of reused rolling stock, including the container wagons with ONE white and pink containers, with redone physics and working brake lever things like on the IC coaches. Oh and, as always, livery designer support.
I like the 6-axle monster of an uncovered steel coil car you suggest , for gravel hoppers I'd like the Facs 124 or Fas 126 most, although the stubby 2-axle Tds/Tdgs wagons would also be fun to see. You have quite a good knowledge of German wagons, my compliments. I myself couldn't possibily remember all the different designations and types of wagons. But any of these freight wagons would be fun to see, and in my opinion would be different enough from the current freight wagons to add a whole other level of variety to the freight rolling stock. I don't expect any of these to come with Riesa - Dresden, but I sure do hope some will (if not with Riesa - Dresden with a later DLC).
On the steam store page, it mentioned the ICE 3M (BR 406) from SKA was needed for the ICE services. However, later on a stream they said that they weren't sure that would actually be happening, as the ICE 3M wasn't realistic for the route (in real life theBR 411 ICE-T operates there).
I'd rather want them to implement the "wrong" ICE than no ICE at all. Cause we might get at some point the ICE-T. It would be so much easier to replace the extisting timetable ICE services with the correct train than building a whole new timetable to layer the new ICE in because the original timetable had no ICE services at all.
I'm not quite sure yet, I do think it might feel a bit unrealistic, but years ago, before I got into trains I couldn't even tell the ICE 3 and ICE-T apart, so it probably isn't that much of a problem .
I would rather have the HMA ICE 3 403 as the 406 is (ai only) on rapid transit whilst the 403 has seen no other usage
