Rivet Games: Luzern-sursee Discussion

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by FD1003, Feb 8, 2022.

  1. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    OK, you got me. That's a German dialect that I can't follow.;
     
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  2. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    Will it work and sound like it is supposed to though? I have no confidence whatsoever that it will.
     
  3. 4-COR

    4-COR Well-Known Member

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    it's rivet so they'll probably use the 'class 483' sounds and call it a day haha
     
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  4. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    It was related to swiss trains post about a day one purchais.

    I said according to his name i wouldnt expect anything else.
     
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  5. simontreanor81

    simontreanor81 Well-Known Member

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    I'm trying to imagine the conversation when Rivet proposed this route to DTG.

    Rivet: Excellent news, we've finalised the decision on our next TSW addon.
    Dovetail: Oh fantastic, let me update the spreadsheet, is it Germany, the USA, UK or....?
    R: Switzerland this time
    D: Brilliant - you know I was saying at lunch yesterday - I'm not sure any country does railways better than the Swiss. Is this another RhB route to build on Arosa?
    R: No, it's a mainline route this time, SBB
    D: Do you know what that's even better - every time I've been to Switzerland I've been struck by just how much there is to see rail-wise. There's so much domestic and international traffic - you could represent any route and it'd be absolutely fascinating! Where have you gone for?
    R: It's around Luzern
    D: That's a great choice - it's so central, and there are lines in every direction! Zurich, Bern, Basel, the Gotthard....
    R: This one's Luzern to Sursee
    D: Sursee? Not sure I've heard of that. Ah! Is it one of the narrow gauge branches? I know SBB still have a stake the narrow gauge line out of Luzern
    R: No it's standard gauge - on the way to Olten
    D: Ah, so the route goes to Olten - excellent! Another rail hub
    R: No, on the way to Olten - we don't go any further than Sursee.
    D: OK, I guess there's a logic to that - how long is the route?
    R: 25...
    D: 25 miles? Yes that sounds about right
    R: No, 25 km
    D: ...well, OK. Well length isn't everything! I know with a trunk route like that we can provide so much for the player. I'm just looking at the timetable now... it's even busier than I thought. What stock is provided?
    R: The 523 EMU
    D: Excellent start, they run the local service, can't be without that. What else?
    R: ....
    D: Hello? There seems to be a bad connection. What else are you providing?
    R: We haven't decided on our next route yet.
    D: No, I mean what else in terms of rolling stock for this route? I can see long distance services, what would provide them?
    R: We'll just be providing the 523

    And I don't know why, when that was revealed, that Dovetail didn't say: No. That is Not Good Enough. I really don't think any route should be released with only one train, unless it literally only has one like a metro line. It's not just about value for money , it's about wasted opportunity - I would love to see SBB represented in TSW, and while I'm not expecting the same fleet, I would like to see a long distance type of train (there are several candidates). It's like with Cathcart - I love the Glasgow suburban network, but don't revisit that because there's only one train - it feels incomplete, and without even the hope of future DLC on the horizon. I expect this route will be the same - when will the next SBB addon be, 2024? I feel similarly about the LGV route - even a second livery would be something!

    I wouldn't even mind so much if you provide two trains with this and a future addon with the same two, but I honestly believe this is the most important thing for immersion - a route with no trains to see is less than half a route. I know there's agreement in DTG - Matt talks about his favourite routes being those with variety, the Cornish route was held back to add extra layers. You guys have made the best train simulator out there and have laid the groundwork to make the best experience possible. Don't waste it.
     
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  6. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Dovetail (well, Matt) have stated previously that while they're happy to assist a 3rd party, they will not dictate what they must make, be it adding an extra train, or extending the route, because at that point, they might as well have commissioned it themselves and had Rivet do all the work as a 2nd party.

    The conversation was more like:
    R: We've decided on the route. It's Luzern - Sursee with the 523.
    D: OK.
    </conversation>
     
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  7. simontreanor81

    simontreanor81 Well-Known Member

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    They should be able to set minimum standards though. It's their product
     
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  8. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    It's not their product, it's a Rivet product; DTG are just selling it.
     
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  9. simontreanor81

    simontreanor81 Well-Known Member

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    Sure, but nothing can be made without going through DTG or having their name and brand attached to it. They can absolutely set requirements - and I'm sure they do.
     
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  10. Ravi

    Ravi Well-Known Member

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    Oh boy, This looks like another Isle of Wight but busier. Hope they at least keep it reasonably busy unlike their other routes. I know they did a lot of work in IoW and Arosa with vast areas you can explore on foot. But I would rather drive another 5km than walking on feet exploring in a game called TRAIN SIM WORLD. Just sayin'
     
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  11. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Locomotives you are looking for are SBB CFF FFS Re484 Traxx and SBB CFF FFS Re474 both are Quadvoltage locomotives. DC pantograph is a 1.45m copper contact strip for Italy RFI and can also work under RFI 25kv 50hz just like how TGV uses it's Metalized carbon contact strip to run Deutsche Bahn 15kv 16.7hz.
     
  12. Tom Fresco

    Tom Fresco Well-Known Member

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    Well, everyone always wants new countrys, so as already mentioned, if you go beyond DE/UK/US, where already plenty of content and options for layering is avaible, there has to be the one first foreign route, that only has one train, as is has become standart in TSW sadly, and nothing to layer on it.
    E.g. the first long awaited dutch route, if there ever will be one, will likely be similar to this route, as you first have to build all the assest and signalling etc.... in which future routes in this country are based on. The next SBB route will then be another new train with the flirt as a layer, and this is how you build your collection for a new country.
    And i hope the shorter route will mean no rushed or itll do scenery.
     
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  13. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Hmm... I'd love some Swiss content, but I do have my doubts about this one. That train looks awfully modern (I'd prefer something a little older), and the route seems to be extremely short. I'll wait for previews to decide. Perhaps the scenery will be amazing enough to convince me to make a purchase.
     
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  14. rabid

    rabid Well-Known Member

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    Is this route really only 25km? It’s hard to believe this concept got past the brainstorming stage, never mind the planning stage. I hope it’s priced accordingly! Surely RG would know what kind of a negative reaction that would likely get from much of the community? Sorry for ranting but I’ll vote with my wallet.
     
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  15. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    At this point I think Rivet could announce [insert whatever your biggest wish is] and they would still get so much negative recation even if the release is months away.
     
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  16. simontreanor81

    simontreanor81 Well-Known Member

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    Not from me. I was fine with the cornish route, particularly after layers were added. Arosa and IOW made sense, although I don't replay them often (even less so with the PS5 issue)
     
  17. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    Arosa not at full price is actually likeable after the timetable update. There are still two things awfully wrong: loco jumping when giving power and distant scenery
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2022
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  18. Swisstrains

    Swisstrains Well-Known Member

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    Rivet games just confirmed that they have worked on the sound and they have a (as we say in germany) “ace up in their sleeves”
    That is a really good thing if you ask me :D
     
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  19. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Actually, I have a fun time driving Arosa and IOW - never really experience the lurching all have talked about on Arosa since usually you are on a slope so apply a little power, then release the brakes. That aside, both are unique routes compared to others released and nice diversion and Inever have come close to buyer’s remorse on purchasing either route.

    This being a standard gauge route in another country when many of the vocal minority have been screaming for something outside of the US/UK/DE sphere being met with negativism on just the announce of the route all ready goes to prove the statement you can’t please all the people all the time.
     
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  20. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Is there really a way to apply "a little power" on the GE 4/4 II? I might be doing it wrong, but using the usual throttle and setting it to 5km/h, gives me full throttle all the way to 5km/h, which makes shunting (especially coupling) quite challenging...
     
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  21. simontreanor81

    simontreanor81 Well-Known Member

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    It's the fact that I've been looking forward to a standard gauge Swiss route that makes it so disappointing though: there is so much potential in this country, but what are we gonna get? You go one way on an S-Bahn service stopping everywhere, you go the opposite direction as an RE skipping half the stops, and then what? Where's the replay value? It would take just slightly more - and two trains is a fairly common standard offering with TSW routes - to really bring the route to life, to create possibilities to come back
     
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  22. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Not really. Typically they come with one new train, and one or two rehashes (Riesa-Dresden, not even that), and then DTG is a rather bigger studio than little Rivet.

    Come to think of it, I can't think of any route since the very earliest (SPG, GWE, WSR) that came with two all-new engines. There may be one I've overlooked, but in all the ones I can think of the second loco is at most a heavy overhaul of an older one like the Clinchfield SD-40.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2022
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  23. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    This is potentially a very attractive route for me. The length is actually a plus, because I rarely can play for more than an hour at a time and I'll be able to drive there and back in that time frame. Of course a lot will depend on the quality of the track, scenery and rolling stock. As I've said elsewhere, I'll be interested to see how they handle one of the really beautiful parts of Switzerland, especially the old, historic city of Lucerne.
     
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  24. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    I've also got a bit mixed feelings about it so far. As others have already said, the length is a bit worrying. It's not a problem for a route like Arosalinie or Isle of Wight, but I really dislike short sections of actually longer routes. It just feels like an incomplete route.

    The Flirts also really aren't my thing, I would've much more preferred something more unique, not something that we can see in literally every european country. But at least it's something new and I'm curious a bit just because it's a familiar stock as Flirts run in my country as well.

    Other than that, the screenshots look good. I really like the accurately modelled overhead wire equipment, nice to see that Rivet keeps pushing for details like this. The buildings in the backgrounds do look a bit weak though, looks like Rivet is still keeping their repeating-tilr texturing methods. That's a bit annoying, as it results in less realistic texturing and everything looking too clean.

    But I will be looking forward to the release of the route. Even if it's not entirely my thing, I hope it ends up being good and selling well. We need more good routes outside of the big three. And even if it's just one train now, I'm very hoping it will have more train add-ons in the future.
     
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  25. simontreanor81

    simontreanor81 Well-Known Member

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    My suggestion would be the Re 420 in red with Eurofima coaches. This would give you:

    1. The long distance services on the route, probably doubling the passenger service count
    2. The option for freight using the DB freight wagons
    3. Potential for shunting in scenarios
    4. A loco that could be used in any future Swiss standard gauge route, in any era
    5. An absolute icon of Swiss rail
    6. A loco that has hundreds in its class
    7. A loco that has potential for variants - the green livery, the modern red livery, the Re 421 in Cargo livery which can go into Germany
    8. A set of coaches that could be used in any other Swiss standard gauge route
    9. A set of coaches that are similar to the DB Intercity coaches in terms of body shell and performance
    10. A set of coaches that could layer into HRR and future German routes
    11. A loco that would be useful for the AI trains at Luzern heading off in different directions
    12. A loco that would provide an interesting driving experience (it uses a tap changer)
    13. A loco that can be seen as AI at Chur

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2022
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  26. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Tees Valley (Class 37 and Class 08) is the only other one I can think of. Pretty sure Liverpool - Crewe will be the first since.
     
  27. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    You've been saying this a lot, but I just cannot believe you. The jump happens when starting from a standstill. Every single time, in timetable mode. Please post a video of you NOT having the issue or stop trolling.
     
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  28. simontreanor81

    simontreanor81 Well-Known Member

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    A lot of the rehashes are much more than re-use or new liveries though - the ICEs are much more different than they appear for example, and I believe the Talent was redone. Another advantage of the Re 4/4 II is that it has similarities with the Ge 4/4 II (a lot of differences too, I appreciate) and the coaches would be similar to IC.

    I think it's about laying the groundwork: it would be better for Rivet to provide two new trains with this route, and the exact same ones with a second SBB route, which would maintain their average if scale is an issue. That would mean waiting longer but it's worth it.
     
  29. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Compared to before the patch i can enjoy arosa now. Its jumping a bit yes, but nothing like to its broken state before.
     
  30. Kangaroo Conductor

    Kangaroo Conductor Active Member

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    I'm with you there. No matter the route or loco, a new country always falls short of content compared to the big three. And if I were a new 3rd party and read those comments, I'd too create only G/UK/US content after that.
     
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  31. Kangaroo Conductor

    Kangaroo Conductor Active Member

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    What about Peninsular Corridor? Would the can car count? And NEC? They too came with two engines.
     
  32. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe it at all.

    This is like people saying TSW hasn't got stutters. Not true at all.
     
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  33. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The 08 was a rework of the WSR 09
     
  34. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The only new engine in Pen Corr was the FP40; and Boston got a rework of it
     
  35. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I agree, I knew there would be some backlash about the lenght, but I wasn't expecting so much negativity, particularly because I always assumed the first release of "a new county" would suffer because the added complexity of having to build new stuff.

    Also as I've said due to the nature of the train it's impossible that they make it as bad as the Class 150. It's an easy and straightforward modern EMU, they could copy/paste the BR425 physics and it wouldn't be good, but it wouldn't as awful as the 150.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2022
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  36. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    Not really, because DTG does G/UK/US and they have a bigger team and more resources. So, it will be difficult to compete with DTG in those areas. IMHO what Rivet needs to do is not just build routes and locos independently, but make a long term plan of what they want to release in lets say the next 9 months / 1 year so they choose routes and locos that are compatible / usable between them.

    If after 1 year they have 3 routes and maybe 3-4 locos / trains that can run on all of them they will begin to have the kind of ecosystem that DTG currently has. That should be their long term goal.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2022
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  37. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    Place your bets on how bad this one will be..
     
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  38. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I get the feeling there are going to be some disappointed people if it turns out that Rivet do a good job and create a nice product, which I suspect they will!

    I am looking forward to it, my only reservations are, that the route is a little short and if indeed there is only one train so not much variety. But it will be something different, although I can't see what the excitement is with these Flirt things!
     
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  39. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Just thought - doesn't someone in Germany operate these exact trains (I know flirts operate in DE, but different models)? If so, could be useful in future German routes where appropriate.
     
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  40. simontreanor81

    simontreanor81 Well-Known Member

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    I would be delighted to see a great representation of this route - I've not had any problems with rivet routes at all
     
  41. simontreanor81

    simontreanor81 Well-Known Member

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    The first generation FLIRT can be seen used by DB in the Rostock area, by Eurobahn and Westfalenbahn in the Northwest, and by SBB over the border at Basel and Konstanz.
     
  42. simontreanor81

    simontreanor81 Well-Known Member

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    And HLB and VIAS in the west. Abellio have had them in NRW but they've gone under.
     
  43. Kangaroo Conductor

    Kangaroo Conductor Active Member

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    So Pen Corr is off the table, and NEC too, I just looked it up; the SW1000R was a DLC. Somehow my memory put it into it being a release with the route. How much would I love DTG to bring back the SW1000R and add it to some routes....!

    That's a thing I thought about too, and not just Rivet, but DTG in general. I personally hope that the idea of "themes" like Rush Hour continues, among 3rd party aswell, maybe bundled with focus on a specific country, as you suggest.

    Tho, if Rivet routes would be better quality wise, I'd not be complaining about them. Them focusing on these slower, quieter and more scenic routes is definitely a bonus to the DTG catalogue we usually get, in my opinion.
     
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  44. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    This essentially is what Rivet have been doing with Swiss routes in TS.
     
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  45. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Im with LeadCatcher, it is possible to start the RhB Ge 4/4 II without the lurching forward, certainly since the last update.

    I cant manage it everytime, but with skill and practice it is possible for a smooth start, certainly in most if not all situation.

    Sadly for many gamers they want instant gratification and arent interested in having to learn how to do something out of the ordinary. And thats certainly not limited to TSW
     
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  46. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I bet $5 :)
     
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  47. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Who would be disappointed if they do a good job. I'm sure everyone wants rivet to do well including myself but time and time again they have consistently missed the mark and it takes months to resolve issues if they will at all hence why many people in the community are so skeptical of rivet in the first place. DTG even knows that the community are skeptical.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2022
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  48. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    They'll certainly be a minority here who will still find fault in the product even if it was flawless, not sure they'll be disappointed however as to them it will never be a nice route.
     
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  49. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    Video or didn't happen.
     
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  50. rabid

    rabid Well-Known Member

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    I would be very happy if the route was flawless, my only real complaint at this stage is the rumoured length, which, if it is really only 25km, is taking the mick, I’m sorry.
     
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