Rivet - Get Your House In Order

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by LucasLCC, Sep 28, 2021.

  1. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    ^^ This. Even though Rivet is the developer, DTG still is the publisher. And even DTG is saying no word about our worries about Rivets products. Is there no QA for third party content? Are there no contracts that ensure a certain quality and bugfixing on third party DLC? Is DTG even attempting to get third party content being fixed, either by doing it themselves or encouraging Rivet to do it?

    We can blame Rivet all we want, but DTG should get at least the same amount of blame. As publisher they have a responsibility. They signed a deal with Rivet.

    DTG Protagonist DTG Natster anything DTG has to say to take away at least a bit of our worries?
     
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  2. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

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    A month ago I had to send in a mobile phone for repairs. After a failed theft attempt, it dropped and cracked the glass so this is not covered by warranty.
    It got repaired but it came with marks on the back from the tools they used to dismount and mount the device. I notified the service and they ignored me. I notified the manufacturer and they resolved the situation after seeing the proof I sent. There are always unfair people out there, in every field.

    We leave in a world where digitals goods are not controlled and monitored as much as they should be compared to physical goods. This is why a lot of companies can launch any type of "tech start-up" they want, collect funds as an investment for selling their ideas, and then say it didn't work out.

    In the gaming industry, there are more early access than ever because developers want to cut corners everywhere and they rely on clients to find and report the bugs rather than having a dedicated QA team.

    I will not go as far as you and call you ridiculous nor label you in any way, I can do much better than that.
    I wish that people don't forget about their rights and that we have the power. Without our money, these companies would not exist.

    One can leave his life as he pleases, in ignorance or being connected to the actual real world, but labeling people for approaching a situation in a different way than you do is wrong.

    You can do better!
     
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  3. conniethunder

    conniethunder Well-Known Member

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    Just go look at some past GoFundMe projects, these are some of the most unscrupulous people out there.
     
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  4. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    I believe that most of the communication between rivet and DTG in that regard is internal and not to be released publicly. Most of the time it leads to bad blood when issues like these get openly discussed between partners...
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2021
  5. Jasper_Rivet

    Jasper_Rivet Well-Known Member

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    Hi folks,

    Thanks a lot for the feedback - not just the comments here, but also what we’ve received on our own forums and anywhere else.

    We wanted to address each main area of discussion:

    BR 204: This was our very first project we've ever done for Train Sim World - just to put things in perspective. The head sway was added quite a while ago, and the transmission isn't broken per-se. It's wrong - and we know it. But rebuilding that isn't an option as we work on other projects - it's a complex change that requires work with Simugraph, and we feel like that time is better spent with some of the other areas below.

    Isle of Wight: We've improved the route over a few updates we've released. We addressed the headlights bug (that's partially fixed) and many other Gameplay aspects. And yes, the sea is drastically improved for West Cornwall Local, that's for sure, particularly for next-gen consoles.

    Arosa Timetable: This is a big issue and something that should have been fixed a long time before. In the first place, we had several problems with it, which was then fixed by Dovetail. We found some more bugs and continued to play ping-pong with the timetable on Arosa for quite a while. Then the UE 4.26 update required some more work again on the timetable - and it's still not there.

    We're really really sorry for this, we hope this might explain things a little. The update will be released, but we can't give you an exact date. As soon as we have more for you, we'll make sure that we let you know both on our own and the Dovetail forums.

    Continued route aftercare: Although we are a small studio, we have a commitment to providing the best experience we can offer to players. We're aware in the past that perhaps we've not quite hit that quality bar with some content, but we're learning all the time and we thank you for your patience as we build a rhythm with balancing new content and already-released content. Route enhancements are difficult for us to juggle, and whilst we won’t always be able to fix all bugs reported, they’re definitely on our radar (including additional ones not mentioned in this post) and we're working closely with Dovetail to ensure we're focusing on fixes that are the most impactful for you.



    Whaaaaat? How could you... :D
     
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  6. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Wow, another Dog pile thread in these forums… even with the obligatory suggestion to sue… how predictable. Even another developer puts in a shot of reality and yet they pile on. Used to be entertaining reading over the morning cup of coffee, but these days the script is becoming as predictable as a Hallmark movie!

    Definition of Dog pile - one dog jumps on and starts fighting another dog, then all the rest of the dogs in the vicinity jump in and start fighting…. Only difference here is, unlike a dig pile where dominance is established, not sure of any benefits from this.
     
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  7. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I definitely don't want to tell you how to do your business, but I would like to suggest to consider changing your policy on continued route aftercare.

    While DTG is not perfect I've come to expect from them to make sure that routes still work more or less like they used to when they were new, for example some physics changes were done to ECW to readjust the braking performance after TSW2, and now the MSB timetable has been adjusted to account for the adhesion physics as well.

    I am sorry to say that if that can't be provided that's a deal breaker for me, I want the peace of mind of knowing that if I buy X DLC it will work for longer than until the next big update that might break old stuff gets released, it's the same reason I buy games instead of getting the game pass.

    Arosa for example is unplayable with the explosive acceleration after 4.26, and if you tell me you are unable to fix it, or fix something similar if it happens in the future, as I said that's a deal breaker.

    Another solution would be to continue making game after game, like TSW and TSW2, so if an update breakes a DLC I can come back to the old game, but if the future of TSW is a yearly update than a basic maintenance of old content is a must for me.

    IoW is fine, the 204 kinda, depending on wether or not you care about realism. But Arosa is in an awful state right now.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2021
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  8. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    The purpose of this thread is to hopefully encourage Rivet to get their act together and fix some of the more critical bugs. Judging from the response on this thread a number of users are not happy with the current situation and this will only be detrimental to sales in the future. I refunded the 204, the only DLC I ever have, and I wish I'd done the same to Arosa.

    It's in Rivets best interest to listen, as they'll

    I imagine if the coach sounds were just decreased in volume it would help a lot, they overpower the rest of the sounds. I personally can't bare the acceleration bug, it's the exact same reason the wheel slip bug on IoW bugs me a lot, as having the train behave like a train is important to me.

    Please look into rolling this back to IoW as well. A change like that will significantly improve the route.

    The timetable is a huge issue, along with the now broken acceleration. It's disappointing that it has been this long without a resolution to the timetable as it directly impacts gameplay.
     
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  9. tibomatthijs

    tibomatthijs Active Member

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    exactly, or they just need to learn how to work with UE and what we want. This is TSW not TS where a bug is 'normal', those bugs breaks a lot of immersion like sounds and rail etc...
     
  10. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    You do much injustice towards highly skilled devs of TS like AP, 3DZug, vR, TSG etc. etc. etc.
     
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  11. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Always one who has to bring legality into things.

    Firstly, from my understanding, Rivet don't have to fix anything unless it's making the product impossible to play. For example, if someone bought Arosa for €30 (that's the EU price, isn't it?) and it crashed every single time, then there is an (probably legal) obligation to fix it.

    Something like The Trees (or lack of), or Terrible Sounds, or something being wrong isn't breaking the law, anywhere.

    Remember that - to someone scrolling through Google or seeing a poster - TSW is just another game.

    There - of course - have to be Standards met, and I'd like to see Rivet's stuff updated as much as the next person, but it's hardly the kind of thing that triggers EU Regulations, or Scots Law (The law that would impact Rivet most likely)
    Always one who was to bring legality into things.

    Firstly, from my understanding, Rivet don't have to fix anything unless it's making the product impossible to play. For example, if someone bought Arosa for €30 (that's the EU price, isn't it?) and it crashed every single time, then there is an (probably legal) obligation to fix it.

    Something like The Trees (or lack of), or Terrible Sounds, or something being wrong isn't breaking the law, anywhere.

    Remember that - to someone scrolling through Google or seeing a poster - TSW is just another game.

    There - of course - have to be Standards met, and I'd like to see Rivet's stuff updated as much as the next person, but it's hardly the kind of thing that triggers EU Regulations or Scots Law (The law that would impact Rivet most likely).

    Now, granted, Support may be a legal requirement on the Continent, I cannot be bothered to look through a document that probably has 500 sub-sections in it.

    However, these more - erm... - Niche/Trivial (to an onlooker) things are something the EU would/should probably just sit and say "You having a laugh?"

    Bottom Line is, no point trying to bring legality to into this.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2021
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  12. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    Following from what FD1003 said, I think it is important that Rivet Games do go back and improve old content, and for some it's as important (or more) as getting new content. One of the largest issues with Train Simulator was DLC being abandoned without ever being fixed - look at the dozens of unplayable DLCs, and ones that were removed because the developers couldn't be bothered to fix it, like the TGV Reseau. And then when fixes were made, they could occasionally break things made by other people, including scenarios and routes. With TSW being a closed system, that issue is much less of an issue, so modifying an old DLC is relatively risk-free.

    The Preservation Crew are a true asset to DTG; they have brought new life to old DLC like the West Somerset Railway. It would be a massive pity if the Isle Of Wight, BR204 and Arosa (and soon West Cornwall) were never improved upon. Sure, they have received some updates as Rivet Games like to boast about, but it's just not enough. When DTG go back to old DLCs, things that have needed changing get fixed and improved. With Rivet, it seems like only the bare minimum is done. It's appreciated by many, but when DTG make drastic changes to old DLC (notably WSR), it seems a bit... trivial.
     
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  13. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    Oh, and please revisit your RailDriver implementations, Rivet. While you are rebuilding the 204 don't forget RailDriver, want to play that loco again some day with MSB now fixed
     
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  14. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

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    If I would be existing anywhere on social media, I would appreciate you following me but I don't so I can't, I'm sorry.

    I respect your decision, you can choose to believe whatever you want.

    Since you follow my posts, you know that I work in Compliance.
    Over the years I have performed due diligence on vendors; moderated content on ad networks to stop scareware, tech support, ransomware, phishing, and many other forms of malvertising reaching websites we access daily; investigated and brought down scam accounts on Amazon (particularly in recent times during the gpu supply issues); investigating and reporting to IWF websites who's content would make you sick for two lifetimes and lastly dealing with the occasional threats received from the threat actors I fight against.

    Legality is more important than you think. And yes, it is needed from the smallest to the biggest of the businesses out there.
    Look around you. Actually, look around you.
     
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  15. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    thank you for providing more info Jasper. I really did want to buy arosa but couldn’t cope with distant scenery. Can I ask please what you have done differently with this route as I see the recall there was frame rate concerns before
     
  16. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Why don't you go ahead and report Rivet to the EU - I'd love to see how far it gets. Whenever this sort of thing comes up, people always threaten it and talk about it but never seemingly actually bother to do it.
     
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  17. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Some here say IOW is fine and the Arosa is more important. Not to everyone, I have no interest in Arosa but do in IOW so would love Rivet to bring IOW upto scratch. I'd love them to fix up Arosa to for the people that use it but for me the IOW is more important.

    Someone suggested that the DLC is under priced? For the quality we get and the bugs we get that are either left for months or ignored. Or even fixed but the fixes never to be released I would say the opposite.

    As for suing Rivet I don't see the merit in it to be honest although it would be nice for Rivet to improve on their past DLC. For me the only games company of note that would be worth suing is EA which some countries have already done but that is on another level.
     
  18. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    How am I following you, exactly?
    I found this thread and, in turn, your post and my first thought was: "Seriously?"

    So I replied. Is there a problem with such?

    That's different, on so many levels.

    That's reporting content that could be harmful or damaging to a person(s).

    This is just content for a game.
    You can advise people to not buy it ("Hey this ain't the best, pal. Maybe skip this one") but bringing the legal team in is just out of proportion.
    Of course legality is more important than "I think".

    I have good experience with the (Civil) Legal System here in Alba (That's, Scotland), and if it weren't for laws everyone would be running around like a madman, wouldn't they?

    However trying to bring that into this context is just- it's just silly.
     
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  19. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Im sure you'll find a lawyer to take on the case if you was to offer them enough, but that doesnt mean youd have a winnable case.

    To threaten legal action or what not against Rivet and/or DTG is laughable, I mean compared to Frontier Elite Dangerous: Odyssey (which actually completely broke the game that even after 7 patches over the last 6 months is still hardly playable - and thats just 1 format, the Xbox & PS releases have been shelved until further notice) these issues are minor. Has anyone tried suing Frontier? Have they heckers.

    (If anyone isnt aware of the cluckfest that Odyssey has become then check out the reviews on steam https://store.steampowered.com/app/1336350/Elite_Dangerous_Odyssey/)
     
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  20. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    And it would probably be too much money for it to be worth it.
     
  21. conniethunder

    conniethunder Well-Known Member

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    Removed by DTG Natster - inappropriate behaviour for these forums.
     
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  22. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Sue :D:D:D:D:D

    Jesus Mary and Joseph. What are you hoping for? A £24 steam credit and a rivet sticker or something.
     
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  23. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Its called proportionate action, spending hundreds of pounds over a £25 game is needless and a waste of a courts time, as the UK has some of the strongest human rights in the world (and far higher that say the US where you dont even get sick pay legally) so Im really not sure where you are getting your assertion from that we dont fight for human rights.

    Edited by DTG Natster - removed quoted text.
     
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  24. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    "We really don't think you have much of a case, it's far too niche and just not worth it" and "We will lie down and let anyone abuse us and not fight for basic human rights" are exactly the same argument, you're absolutely correct. And this on a day a murder case that sparked mass protests in the summer about women's safety went to court and has been all over the news all day.
     
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  25. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Well they're right in that regard that threatening to take legal actions is pretty silly. I doubt anyone will do it and it probably wouldn't be worth the hastle anyway.

    A much better option is to save both your time, money and frustration and just don't buy if you don't want to.
     
  26. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Removed by DTG Natster - politics to do not belong on these forums, please take any talk of politics elsewhere.
     
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  27. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    I don't think anyone is anti-legal. This is just a complete joke. Taking legal action against a train-based Game Developer Is about the daftest thing I could ever think of.

    Edited by DTG Natster - removed quoted text
     
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  28. conniethunder

    conniethunder Well-Known Member

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    You have heard of people getting £1000's in compensation from the police just because they searched them under the terrorism act though?
    I'm just saying, the real media is home media and that people shouldn't be put off fighting for anything - even a £25 game DLC!
     
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  29. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    How can you possibly compare being falsely searched by the police and being dissatisfied with a game?
     
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  30. conniethunder

    conniethunder Well-Known Member

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    That wasn't meant as a comparison.
    I'm pointing out what people are capable of doing if they take the time to research their avenues.
     
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  31. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    But most british people will simply not see the point because they're dissatisfied with a product because of the likely extortionate cost of doing so if it went to court. At most, they'd ask for a refund and send a strongly worded letter. We're just not that litigious.
     
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  32. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    If I'm sitting in the living room watching the TV and the Anti-Terror unit show up out of nowhere I'm quite likely (and moved to) take legal action - partly because I'm going to need a new door and/or window, probably a couple of new decorations, and a few other things.

    If I'm a little bit depressed (that's like the lowest a TSW DLC should be able to possibly take someone, and that is an extreme) about a £25 DLC I'm just either

    A) Not going to buy (you have that option, but you can't exactly tell anti-terror units to beat it)
    B) Get a Refund (if an option)
    C) Make good use of my time - Request it be fixed/updated, maybe just forget about it. Maybe just get on with life.

    #FirstWorldProblems
     
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  33. conniethunder

    conniethunder Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.
    Which takes us back to my post on this ;)
    BTW, I'm from NW England.

    Sorry for opening a can of worms here.
     
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  34. Trainiac

    Trainiac Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, let's NOT bring American politics into this! Any sort of politically related stuff is irrelevant to a train simulator.

    Edited by DTG Natster - removed quoted text.
     
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  35. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Can you imagine just how nutty this would sound?:

    M'Lord (Your Honor) can you see how bad the scenery is. I mean the grass is the wrong shade of green and the track ballast, well, I mean it should be brown not gray.

    Members of the jury, this train does not go fast enough and its headlights are too small and in the wrong place.

    And worst of all, M'Lord, there's a bridge missing just west of St Agnes.

    I demand satisfaction, though I'm not quite sure exact!y what that is.

    Oh, I know, the game company should buy me a new computer/console so I can play the game better.
     
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  36. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    First off -- someone not agreeing with what an engines sounds like or if the mountains have too many or not enough trees is a joke when it "come to fighting for your basic human rights '. You need some prospective my friend -- after 22 years in uniform I can tell you there is a big difference

    Second - your rather descriptive last sentence is not needed nor appreciated in polite public discourse
     
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  37. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    I mean, what are we talking about here? We are talking about a product. If you are buying it blindly because you are too lazy of reading reviews and ask for opinions and inform yourself, well, then it is your fault if it doesnt fit your needs or doesnt satisfy you. If you buy a product from whom you certainly know it will not fit your needs or wont satisfy you then it is entirely your fault. Nobody forces you to buy a product. It is YOUR OWN decision. You cant blame the producer/company for your own decision. If you dont like a product before buying it, dont buy it. If you have already bought it and it didnt fit your expectations, well, that is an experience you have the chance to learn of.

    A lot of people think they have the right for demanding a certain level of quality but they dont. It is the producer/company who decides about the quality of its product and if it doesnt fit the customers expectations, well, dont buy any products from that company.

    An alternative would be to buy a product and write a letter to the company with feedback to make this product or future products better. But you as a customer dont have a right to demand that a company takes actions regarding updates and patches.
     
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  38. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Community Manager Staff Member

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    I've done a clean up in this thread. Let's keep it back on track.

    Please be reminded that talk of politics does not belong in the Train Sim World forums and should be discussed elsewhere.

    It's also getting a bit heated in here folks, don't forget you can disagree with one another and still remain polite.
     
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  39. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

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    Nobody said anything about suing anyone. Stop putting words in other people's mouths! It was brought into discussion by an overzealous person that dramatized the situation on his will.

    There is a big difference between letting a control entity know about possible misbehavior and opening a court case. But the severe lack of knowledge and willingness to act when something is not right, leads to making extreme statements and misjudgements.

    We either do nothing or think of suing, this is how the mentality is in general. But there are many means in between, arbitration and several others, that can be used with ease by anyone without investing anything other some time. They are there to protect you as a consumer if required.

    Life is not black or white. Look for the shades to make the most out of it.

    One of the most used reasons in chargeback cases is "Not as described". Once you purchase a product that is not as advertised and on top of it comes with hidden issues, you have the right to take action as a customer. I find it baffling that people argue against their own rights.
     
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  40. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I think we should put the whole suing/politics talk behind us. It doesn’t belong in here.

    I think we all want Rivet to listen and improve, as well as communicate more effectively. My personal take is that if you can’t/won’t/don’t have the time to fix your products, then you shouldn’t be producing DLC.

    The route currently shows all of Rivet’s usual shortcomings and struggles, however the 150 looks nicely modelled. Let’s hope they do a decent job of the sounds and physics because it would honestly be such a waste if it was only half complete.
     
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  41. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I think my comment has been taking slightly out of context. I confirm I did mention a name and a news story but it was in no way politically driven, merely comparative. I accept the feedback though.

    I used my 1000 post for this :cool:
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2021
  42. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The practical problem here is that "fitness for purpose sold" (the US lawyers' locution, from the Uniform Commercial Code, but it's essentially the same), is a very, very high (or low) standard_ in other words, it is extremely difficult for a plaintiff to meet the burden of proof, and very easy for the defendant to overcome it, because the standard for all practical purposes means "pretty much doesn't work at all." In the context of a train simulator, that means a game that does nothing but crash, or locos (all of them!) that simply don't go.

    The complaints about Arosa simply don't rise to nearly a sufficient level for "unfitness." "Really really naff" is not a cause of action.
     
  43. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Some games companies do take it too far, like gambling with EA, where legislation is needed and some games companies just refuse to keep their software playable in an acceptable state.

    People have very little comeback with regards to software, some offer a refund while mainly you either get a false promise or ignored. Everyone gets tired of the same old excuses. That said if these games companies promise to put things right then they should be given time, Look at No Mans Sky, possibly the most overhyped game going but look at it now. They have put in much free content and it is now supposed to be a good game, other games have done that as well.

    Then some games are released full of glitches and bugs like Fallout 4 and the gamers step in to fix the game themselves. I can't remember a member of the public suing a games company over scenery in game and winning. What irks people most of the time is being lied to and false expectations. Steam give 2hrs for you to decide if you want to keep a game or not perhaps increasing this will help? Does it cover DLC's? But then it will probably get abused. The safest way is just to not buy any product from that company.
     
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  44. conniethunder

    conniethunder Well-Known Member

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    Hey, as I said, I opened a can of worms. My bad.
    I'll just apologise for anything I said that could be misconstrued.
    Lets all move on.
    x
     
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  45. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    The Farm Sim series is another example. Farm Sim 2011 was the first of the "joke" simulators, and because of that, many people bought it. They then invested that money into actually putting effort into it and even by Farm Sim 15 (2 games and 4 years later), it was relatively descent and they seem to have been continually improving it over subsequent releases. I do hope Rivet can do similar and improve over the coming years.
     
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  46. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I said that, but I did not mean that Arosa is more important.

    Apart from a few bugs IoW is on par with other DTG DLCs released at the same time, and it "works" today, the speedometer and the AI headlights might be an annoyance but it's nothing new, the 363 is more recent and the speedometer doesn't work either. Don't get me wrong, it's not ideal but it's not unplayable, and if it's not considered a priority by DTG, Rivet won't even consider looking at it from a distance.

    IoW got released as a decent add-on and it remains that. Arosa instead was released as a bad/mediocre add-on with some improvement promised not too far after release, and not only it wasn't improved, it got even worse after Rush Hour.

    I don't think it's necessary for Rivet to have a full on preservation crew like DTG that brings new features into old routes, but basic maintenance should absolutely be guaranteed for every DLC I buy, so, they said they wanted to update the timetable, almost 1 year after it's still not there, and probabily the acceleration bug from 4.26 will never get fixed, thankfully IoW doesn't have so many problems, and hopefully it won't have any, because if I understood what Jasper said on his previous comment, they won't get fixed.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2021
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  47. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately the new Cornwall route appears to be having the same issues as previous releases:

    - A timetable with just 61 Class 150 moves, and 6 freight moves. This is nowhere near the full timetable (a half hour service on the St Ives actually requires more moves than this, and that's without any associated empties). Given the lack of freight moves, I have a feeling these will be out and back with no creativity, although I obviously can't prove this.
    - The 150 seems to be very confused in era. Regional Railway on the outside, modern in the cab, and a weird combination of FGW, Regional and GWR in the passenger saloon.
    - St Ives is questionable at best.

    If this was a DTG we'd kick up a fuss and likely the route would see some form of improvement either by release or with the preservation team, but with Rivet it really worrys me that history will repeat itself and nothing will be improved.
     
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  48. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Where did you get this information? If true, that's pretty BAD, especially considering we're not talking only one line, but also an extra branch.
     
  49. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    Rivet forums, Jasper_Rivet comfirmed it
     
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  50. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    What’s the problem? You can only drive one service at a time. There’s only two drives. Penzance to St Austell and St Erth to St Ives. And on the St Ives Branch, you’re not going to encounter any other trains. It doesn’t matter if there are 61 or 610 services. 61 services is about right for the period it is set, though some of these would have been other trains such as HSTs.
     

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