Rivets’ New Scottish Route

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by londonmidland, Dec 22, 2022.

  1. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    With the ScotRail Class 385 now officially revealed, I’d like to discuss the most likely route for this train, as well as what we can expect.

    *puts tin-foil hat on*

    What can we tell from the picture?
    The screenshot shows the ScotRail Class 385 EMU. Looking at this in more detail, we can see that this is a Class 385/1.

    03B8BBDD-753E-47FC-BEEE-30AC6812A371.jpeg

    How does the 385/1 differ from a 385/0?
    The /1 variant consists of four coaches, as well as having a small first class area. These are used on express routes. The /0 variant consists of only three coaches, as well as having no first class accommodation. These are used on the stop-start commuter routes, however these occasionally appear on the express services.

    What route would we most likely get?
    Given the points above, the most logical route for this train would be Edinburgh Waverley to Glasgow Queen Street via Falkirk High.

    Services:
    The route itself is a 47 mile route end to end. The services taking from end to end taking around 50 minutes.
    Weekday day time service pattern sees a train every 15 minutes from Glasgow/Edinburgh. All trains stop at Falkirk High and Haymarket, with selected trains stopping at Croy, Polmont and Linlithgow.

    Depots:
    Haymarket depot is located a short distance away from Edinburgh Waverley station, however this depot only serves ScotRail’s diesel trains - The HST, Class 158 and 170. So we’re likely to have no rolling stock populate this depot.

    Near to Glasgow Queen Street, we have ScotRail’s Eastfield Depot, which is used to stable the 385s.

    34C6786A-2AA1-4745-9203-A74004FEFBA9.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2022
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  2. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    I reckon this will be good. I thought Rivet’s revised IOW was one of the best looking TSW2 routes. If they can replicate that over this distance it’ll be great.

    The HST is a must though. Another route with 1 EMU and some 66 freight services (if these even run on this line) will get dull as dishwater very quickly.
     
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  3. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

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    HST would be really nice. The fact it was recently made compatible with the livery designer should greatly reduce the effort needed to make a ScotRail variant. And I‘ve read somewhere on here that the ScotRail HST units are actually refurbished GWE ones, so I guess you could make a reasonably accurate one by simply editing the existing model from GWE. I‘d still be completely fine with just the 385 if it’s done well, by the way. The workload with this huge route is already quite high for Rivet!
     
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  4. TSW Nathan

    TSW Nathan Well-Known Member

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    I think Rivet will do a brilliant job with this route concidering it's so local to them. :)
     
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  5. TSW Nathan

    TSW Nathan Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they are. I remember seeing the GWE ones in the news getting refurbished into ScotRail ones.
     
  6. TSW Nathan

    TSW Nathan Well-Known Member

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    Quick note about the Class 385:
    There is a gaurds pannel located next to the first Class. Not sure if they are there throughout the rest of the train. When I asked Jasper if they were going to include this they said it would be a shame if they didn't so it sounds like they will, which is good news! :)
     
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  7. TSW Nathan

    TSW Nathan Well-Known Member

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    Best photo I could get of it. Conductor dispatching the train and closing the doors. Screenshot_20221222-204050_Photos.jpg
     
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  8. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    Some of my thoughts:

    It would be nice to get both the /0 and /1 subclasses of the Class 385, from my experience these are usually combined to form 7-car services presumably to provide a higher ratio of standard class to first class seating on the express services.

    If it were Glasgow QS to Edinburgh Waverley, hopefully the line via Falkirk Grahamston and a spur to Larbert will be included for better playability of Dunblane/Alloa services (or better still including the line up to Stirling if not too ambitious).

    A second loco (such as a Scotrail HST or a Class 66 for freight to Grangemouth) would add some extra variety for seemingly not much extra work (compared to building a new train type). Rivet did something similar when including the Class 37 on West Cornwall Local.

    Extra non-playable AI services around Glasgow/Edinburgh are a must - otherwise these stations will feel extra devoid of life. Such services could include those departing/arriving Glasgow QS via Springburn and Cumbernauld and Edinburgh Waverley to Glasgow Central via the Shotts and Carstairs lines.

    Some special services such as a Class 314 farewell railtour would be fun also :)
     
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  9. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

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    Cool! Where did Jasper say that? I’ve noticed he’s been quite active on the Rivet forums, commenting on Glasgow-Edinburgh discussions.
     
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  10. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Except the route code only indicates an electric so a scotrail hst which is diesel wouldn't fit the route code
     
  11. CrAzZyKiLLa

    CrAzZyKiLLa Well-Known Member

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    Rivet did a good job on IOW v2 with the guard functionality, beat anything DTG have done so far, lets hope its repeated here and going forward.
     
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  12. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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  13. TrainGeek08

    TrainGeek08 Well-Known Member

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    Both 385 subclasses are a requirement because of different service patterns (Dunblane/Alloa),
    Sounds better be of 484 quality, not 150 quality,
    Scope for potential DLC (380, 365, maybe backdated TT with the 170 :o)

    Overall, Rivet needs to impress us with this DLC like how they responded with Island Line: 2022, hope they took feedback off that and Luzern-Sursee to make this upcoming route as good as it can be :)
     
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  14. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    Is that depending on the included traction or the route itself? The route is primarily overhead electric so I would assume the route code is representative of that, or are there route codes that specify both diesel and electric?
     
  15. TSW Nathan

    TSW Nathan Well-Known Member

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    It's on the general chat I believe. “It's a confirmed Scottish route...I hope” thread.
     
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  16. TSW Nathan

    TSW Nathan Well-Known Member

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  17. TSW Nathan

    TSW Nathan Well-Known Member

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    Yea! Hopefully! I bet this will be their best route they have made!
     
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  18. TSW Nathan

    TSW Nathan Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I'd prefer the via Falkirk High line. It would be great to see both sub classes of the Class 385! Really hyped about this route! :D
     
  19. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    I'm happy to see any new route, but my major worry is the selection of vehicles portrayed.

    The ones I enjoy most are those with layers or a wide variety of rolling stock.
    My unplayed routes are nearly all single class ones :(
     
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  20. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Rivet rarely make more than 1 rolling stock since all the resources goes into that. Small team and making 2 new trains is double the work cuz you gotta do simugraph, sounds, physics, model, etc. There might be layers but there might be not. I've read that the route might feel busy if they include all the ai services with the 385. But we'll have to wait and see
     
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  21. TSW Nathan

    TSW Nathan Well-Known Member

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    They might, concidering they ride on these trains every day
     
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  22. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    Gutted if it the G and E. Opportunity lost in my eyes to recreate an iconic era based on console sales and that BR culture of getting the job done with a mix of machinery. Instead it's chocks away with one handle and possibly empty Waverley to boot. I hope the AI is more plentiful but I doubt it as its seems to be acceptable now to have huge UK stations with a few trains an hour.
     
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  23. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    I am truly shocked that they have been allowed to create new products for TSW3 when their current stock is WAY below the standard expected of a supposed ‘simulator’
     
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  24. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Their recent routes aren't that terrible. Rivet has become much better in terms of route building. Look at island 2022 which has great route buildling, the train isn't terrible. Luzern sursee although short has good scenery and the train is nice to drive. Some people enjoy the routes. If you compare those 2 routes to arosa line and west cornwall local, there have been major improvements. If rivet games wasn't a dev, then we wouldn't have swiss content and people would still complain for no swiss content since only rivet has the swiss knowledge lol
     
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  25. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Agree with both posts above - Rivet will have to pull out all the stops to convince me.
     
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  26. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    The routes themselves are fine.

    physics and sounds however - another story entirely.
     
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  27. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Well-Known Member

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    I'm hoping they bring a BR class 68
     
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  28. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Not with this route, but hopefully sometime in the future. Although I would like dtg to create it to get the sounds and physics correct with armstrong powerhouse. Rivet doesn't go a great job with sounds and physics
     
  29. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    The line via Falkirk Grahamston is similar to the slow lines via Redhill on London Commuter, so including it (in addition to the fast line via Falkirk High) would be logical. It's literally only a few miles of extra scenery running parallel to the main line.
     
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  30. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    If you mean the Scotrail Class 68s, they only ever ran the Fife Circle services during peak hours. In this case it would add only a short drive between Haymarket (or South Gyle) to Waverley with just eight additional services. Better saved for the Fife Circle route if we ever get that IMO.
     
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  31. Bravo2six

    Bravo2six Well-Known Member

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    One could also say that the spur up to Stirling wouldn't be much more of a push.... and then, you might aswell add the Alloa branch ;)
    Rivet would be my heroes in that case ;)
     
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  32. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

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    By far the most critical part of this route for me will be the timetable. It must represent a busy (probably pre-pandemic) timetable with all services included that are reasonable with the 385 and any other locos included.

    Obviously more is usually better when it comes to mileage but nevertheless, I think the Dunblane and Alloa termini could add a lot to the variety of services on the route. Likewise, I'd expect to see both the 385/0 and /1 variants (I think the /0 is just a /1 with a carriage missing so you'd think this would be a small job in the grand scheme of things).

    The 314 farewell railtour is a really nice idea too. On a related note, I think it would add significant benefit for this pack to layer back onto Cathcart Circle, with the 385/0 randomly replacing some 314s for variety. This is probably a DTG job though for patching in later.

    Sadly I do think the Class 43 with modified livery and powered doors is probably a bridge too far, but we can hope - if that and the Dunblane branch were added, this would be a seriously hefty DLC and possibly one of the best UK routes for a long time and well worth the presumed £30 asking price in my view.

    Looking forward to the big reveal in any case and of course the accompanying bingo card.
     
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  33. TrainGeek08

    TrainGeek08 Well-Known Member

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    The timetable should be the 2019 timetable like previous modern day UK routes :)

    I agree with a Dunblane/Stirling/Alloa extension, it's either that or the line through Falkirk Grahamston or Cumbernauld :)

    The HST would work, as long as the Greenhill Jn to Larbert section is built as well, which is a big ask by Rivet's standards ;)
     
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  34. matt#4801

    matt#4801 Well-Known Member

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    Just before I start I am just going to let you know what you are about to read is incredibly speculative and I could be going down the completely wrong tracks with this.
    Anyway, I was thinking whilst the kettle was boiling and it suddenly popped into my head that the preservation crew (or whatever they are now called) updates for CCL are still yet to come and then somewhere else in my brain wondered if they were waiting for this DLC to release and then layer the 385 onto appropriate services/AI for the route. If this was to happen I might bite the bullet and give CCL another go as it will give it some interest, though the speed limit will still be depressingly low!
     
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  35. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

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    Great theory! Putting some 385 services in there would definitely be appropriate since it was driving there around the period the timetable is set. Not sure if it’s still doing the circle services today, but surely some AI opportunities exist out of Glasgow Central anyways.
    If I were the Special Projects team, I’d maybe include a handful of units driving circle services with the explanation they’re either doing trial running or substituting for broken/unavailable 314s. And obviously AI trains out of Central Station. Could also include depot runs to/from the one near the main station if that’s realistic.
     
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  36. Bravo2six

    Bravo2six Well-Known Member

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    I'm no expert and just going on what others have said, but I think the difference is the /0 doesn't have first class? (The shorter one). Yeah, given that Rivet did that for WCL with the 150 and the 10%? Chance of a 101 replacement.

    I mean, I'd happily settle for a Inter7city modified 43 as a bundle content add on train.

    I suspect the RHTT will make its appeareance as usual though.

    More the merrier! Although I do think that it would be nice for the Alloa/ Stirling spur, but even F Grahamston would be nice.
    Leaving it as (possibly) just F Higher would be disappointing, but if Rivet is a small studio, I would understand.
     
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  37. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    Wow. Have our expectations seriously sunk so low??
    I for one would happily take the HST with old doors if it meant we'd get it. Anything to see it on a new route. I'm still in disbelief it's taken this long for another route to come along where there's even a possibility of it returning, considering it's undoubtedly Britain's most iconic modern train.
     
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  38. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

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    That is the case presumably because those ancient DLC trains (like the HST) were developed and modeled in an incredibly complicated and head-scratching way. That issue has been largely solved due to the Special Project Team’s work on making it compatible with Livery Designer. Perhaps that was even done with this add-on in mind, as others have already suggested.
     
  39. TSW Nathan

    TSW Nathan Well-Known Member

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    Personally, out of the two lines (Stirling extra line or Falkirk grahmston) I think if they made this much track at all they would choose the Stirling line just because it would give them their local line.
     
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  40. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    If you were to extend to Stirling, you would have to include Falkirk Grahamston as services to Edinburgh have to go via there. They could instead do Glasgow or Edinburgh to Stirling/Dunblane/Alloa instead of going across to Edinburgh or Glasgow, but I don't think that would be as popular (it would be like London Commuter branching off and ending at Horsham instead of continuing onto Brighton).
     
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  41. TSW Nathan

    TSW Nathan Well-Known Member

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    Okay.
     
  42. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

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    At this point, I‘m relatively sure Edinburgh and Glasgow will be the endpoints of the route. Jasper has just been having too much fun commenting on the Rivet Forums for that not to be the case. On one occasion, he saw a comment listing all the lines between the two cities and replied something like „Well which one would you go for?“ ;) I feel like he would dampen all the speculation a bit or provide us with official info if the rumors went in the completely wrong direction.
     
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  43. TSW Nathan

    TSW Nathan Well-Known Member

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    Yea, your probably right. (Too be fair, I did encourage Jasper to hint a bit ;) )
     
  44. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    It would be nice if we had all three as endpoints. Stirling would offer more gameplay with the inclusion of Inverness/Aberdeen services operated by diesel trains, even if the relevant stock were added later as an expansion. It might be a tad ambitious including all three but given it's Rivet's local route, I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised :)
     
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  45. TSW Nathan

    TSW Nathan Well-Known Member

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    I completely agree :)
     
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  46. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    I really hope too that Rivet has planned to include both 385/0 ans 385/1 variants.

    Thats like the best possible advertisement to have, basicly 2 different trains for the route even if its "only" 1 new train. The 3 car version has no TS coach.

    Screenshot_20221227-101845_Chrome.jpg Screenshot_20221227-101953_Chrome.jpg

    Im sure Rivet can find a solution to the problem that tsw has issues with 3/4 car substitution in the same service. They can just Run different services like they probably do in real.

    Would be a real missed opportunity to get only the 4 car variant. The north lacks anyway of all the necessary stock like the 156/158/320, so a train combination in addition with little effort is a win win.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2022
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  47. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

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    Since the ability to couple/uncouple units over the course of a day has been a timetable feature available to developers for some time now, perhaps they could implement that into the new route. Two 4-car units and sometimes even one 4-car and one 3-car unit can be seen coupled together at times. Even if that doesn’t happen regularly, maybe that’s still a cool premise for one of the scenarios!
     
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  48. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I know the HST was talked abkut earlier in this thread. Wasn't one of the shots of the HST in developement for livery designer compatibility a 5 coach set (in unpainted grey), the right length for the scotrail HSTs? Maybe that indicates a 5 coach HST formation heving been added, which could be because of this route? Still, looks like an interesting route, I'm glad Rivets quality has gone up with more and more releases, and that they're diversifying the routes in TSW considerably.
     
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  49. Bravo2six

    Bravo2six Well-Known Member

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    And plus, if the 385/0 comes in, then it could layer into the CCL and give you the opportunity to have the 2019 changeover timetable of both units together.
     
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  50. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    I posted on another thread.So here's what the possible route schedule can look like If it's the Glasgow to Edingburgh via falkirk high . From what I have seen on videos they have the 385/1 on this route.
    If they go with the current time table service is every 30 minutes except from 715AM to 9:45AM and 16:15 to 18:45 which runs service every 15 minutes. I'll look to see what AI trains we can see on parts of the route but if we only get the 385/1 it will be very limited services and AI.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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