Rivets’ New Scottish Route

I find myself coming back to this thread sooner than anticipated with more frustrations

- The timetable is purportedly a current one, but a check of RTT shows that Dunblane-bound services from Waverley stop at Edinburgh Park. Yet for some reason, Edinburgh Park is completely unserved in the game, with not a single service calling for the whole day. Why would you model a whole station, including tram stop, and then forget to put it in the timetable?!?



- PIS misses all post-map stations until the destination, which is something that was solved 18 months ago in Rush Hour - trains don't run non-stop between Croy and Alloa etc.

- Headlights have a very short draw distance so they pop in just a few metres from the player

- The first left-handed curve as you reach the top of the gradient out of Glasgow Queen Street appears to be totally missing superelevation (another recurring Rivet issue, see WCL for much more of this) - a bit of smashed crockery and aching necks at 60mph, quite surprised that the train stays on the tracks at all. The rest of the line is more-or-less fine in this regard - needs looking at.

Additionally, having researched the timetable a little more, I'd have liked to have seen 314s implemented on the North Clyde line services (Edinburgh end of the route between Edinburgh Park and Waverley, from Helensburgh Central) to replace the current Class 334 contingent. Wiki suggests that in the past these services were occasionally operated by 314s, and they're another 3-car EMU that would make Edinburgh a lot busier. It's not exact, but it's the right operator and we've got 377s posing as 455s on BML where no one is really complaining? This point is certainly more contentious however so it's not making my main list of issues.

 

This route on its own isn't what I would call the most interesting. It needs an X factor which I figure Rivet thinks the 385 plus lifts and other gimmicks are. Short of the Queen Street tunnel and famous Edinburgh landmarks its quite average scenery wise, not unpleasant but you wouldn't use it for scenic excursions etc.

It's essentially the bottom part of a Central Scotland triangle of routes with more feeding in and out along the way. The fact that most of the triangle up to say Larbert or Stirling probably could have been done is my opinion. Even if it was 385 only it would have helped.

The other x factor would have been different trains. Could have been 80s with the 47/7s with the iconic local names and mk3s or the 27s with the hectic hard to keep schedules.

Instea many are sitting here wondering why they have splashed out £30 for a one train bug filled quiet route.

 

I'm assuming no Railtour layers for those who own the BR Classics, then?

 

yup, there aren't any in game

 

Is it just me but there is no window that you can open from the driver cab. I wonder if that is the case in real life. The window not opening.

 

Did I dream it or did Rivet tease that there would be some sort of expansion pack released shortly after the main route was out?

 

The expansion pack looks to be a steam railtour pack for West Cornwall Local using the Jubilee from Spirit of Steam - so far nothing to do with Scotrail Express. Might find out more either this week or during the stream next Sunday night.

 

Curious to see if it comes with any updates on the route. Wouldn't be the first time for Rivet. Both Arosa and Isle of Wight got upgrades alongside a DLC to cover the costs...

 

I believe that is correct to real life

 

Quick one, if you don't mind. How do I turn the TMS on please? Steam and using a keyboard and mouse.
Thanks

 

There is a clickspot on the top of the TMS-screen.

 

Thank you very much.

 

Fun fact; closing the door to the rear of the driver makes the wind sound much quieter in the cab

 

I cant hear the "windsound" everybody talks about.

Inside a coach / emu compatment you can hear the "looping" sound of the wheels turning, and just noise from the underframe in general. Sitting rather close to a motor bogie, also traction sounds are to hear.

So with the 385 the major mistake was, not get out and make records. Currently it sounds they took the external sound of a passing unit at 100mph, and cutted this as 1 second loop in the passenger / drivers compartment.

just get into any train / tram or whatever you have close and pay attention to the "windnoise", then you get what rivet have tried to implement. In good isolated newer compartments / double floor coaches its very silent, but its there.

 

This route has so much potential but gosh is it buggy.

TMS/announcements haven't worked on any of the two timetabled services I've completed. One didn't register the destination at all, and todays one registered the destination and displayed it on the TMS but none of the announcements included anything other than "This is the..." aspect.

The cab wind noise is awful - thanks to those suggesting closing the internal divider door.

The route is pretty - the train too. Performance is above average too! But as is often the case I'm again left asking "does anyone actually sit and play these routes before release?".

C'mon guys, your QA here is awful. I'm an amateur with as much train knowledge as JD and even I picked these issues up.

 

Watched the first section of his first stream, kind of hard to hear some of the commentary over the train sound, mainly the wind.

I would actually say from what I've seen so far it has received a slight promotion from, "Don't touch with a bargepole", to "Pick it up when at least 50% off and some of the bugs have been addressed". The sounds are probably the main issue especially if they have been synthed from what Rivet already have rather than taken from actual recordings of the prototype. The route itself looks okayish, still a preponderance of trees everywhere and I couldn't tell if Falkirk Wheel had been included.

As regards the view from the 385, well it's pretty dire, but only Rivet's fault in that they chose that as the prototype rather than go back to the 158/170 epoch. Guess they didn't want another Sprinter physics debacle. Just the 385 does cast the route down in the same bracket as all the other releases, IMHO for thirty quid we should be getting two new rolling stock items.

Anyhow as it stands < than £15 and I might pick this up over BCC.

 

Most of all it's annoying because the last English route (by DTG) with the Class 323 was just great. Especially the vehicle and its sound are world class compared to the Rivet vehicle.

With all the anticipation, I unfortunately have to say that Rivet once again cannot keep the promised quality.

 

I just wanted to know why since Rush Hour the routes released have drastically dropped in terms of content?

- Boston Sprinter has two trains;
- Dresden to Riesa has a multitude of trains;
- London Commuter also has several layers and numerous services.

After them, you rarely notice new routes with these particularities. Could DTG explain to us, directly and objectively, why this is happening? Edinburg to Glasgow is an example of what should not have been done with so many features offered by TSW3:

- Little movement of trains in terminal stations;
- Virtually no passengers on trains and stations;
- Virtually no trans movement on the line, especially in Edinburg;
- Horrible 385 sounds;
- Few services available, which consequently make the line empty;
- unusable lighting and weather effects.

Third parties are having to make mods to fix things that should have come at launch. Well, if third parties do it, why don't they immediately release an editor along the lines of Train Simulator Classic?

Are you waiting the Simrail that you recently launched, which by the way the reviews on Steam are very positive, surpasses DTG to the point that players migrate there?

Please, honor your consumers with quality products and also with transparency in information, saying what is possible and what is not in your game/simulator..

 

Rush Hour showed whats possible in terms of variety and a.i services, also those routes had the nessecary rolling stock available in tsw. I personally dont have a problem with the empty stations, its just a side phenomen of tsw still growing. At some point they have to begin, either producing only loco dlcs, or start a route with only one train and have it kind of empty at the begin.

I never had problems with electrostars, rather wish dtg would expand the southeastern highspeed with another new train, or expand the southern with also a new trains. There we could have enough variety. (as new train a class 700 for example).

My personal wish would be a BR era route 80/90s, with our classic diesels, and add maybe a cl.58 or cl.60. Counting the ones we have DTG released a lot of BR diesels, which would give variety like we have on german dlcs.

Im not expecting a second "new" train with the increase of the price. But lower the quality in combination with 1/3 more expensive dlcs is a strict no go for me.

 

If true, that is totally unacceptable. A design practice from the Bad Old Days that I thought had been tossed in the dustbin.

 

London Commuter is back to being my most played DLC, despite its faults it is still by far the best route in the game imo. It really should have set the standard for all future DLC

 

I fully agree. Route with plenty of schedule options and multi-layer trains, only with the problem of passengers disembarking at the next station and without the lighting and weather of TSW3...

 

I still havn't had this issue at all, despite having run 10 services.

 

I've run into it a couple of times but definitely not every time.

 

I think while people buy it the developers won't worry that they are offering less for the £30.00. Plenty of wow TMS/PIS type comments along the way along with many who are happy to drive a route/train they have been after despite the bugs and lack of decent sounds.

The fact that many of us are highlighting the lack of AI at the busy stations and the fact only one train comes with it won't make much difference to future DLC going by past releases. We can beat the drum but it may go unheard.

 

Definitely cemented that I have no interest in this route until at the very least I see most bugs fixed in patch notes. It’s just a disappointment at the end, especially after keeping up with its development progress.

thought this route was going to be the one that has brand new features because they managed to get the standard stuff done, but no it’s the standard stuff that lacks.

 

And the blurry wheels. Really hope they give us the 700 and give it the TSW3 treatment, but anyway I digress

 

Only today did i have a first look at the route and here's my own opinions.

First off... Rivet, you really create some beautiful models; especially actual trains. The 385 is a beautiful bit of modelling and looks pretty spot on personally, however with some real issues that honestly really bother me (more on that).

Also bare in mind this is taken with a proper railway worker mindset & simulation mindset, so expectations on how things *should* correctly operate and function where high; not that i should be expecting anything near that from history! Ultimately i want a quality and realistic products in TSW and hopefully this feedback is taken forward.

Route:
The route itself seems pretty good, however its not local to me by any means, so cant fault it on accuracy.

However, there sadly is one big issue for me and that is STILL the incorporation of the dispatcher forcing you to close doors on REDs that is SO immersive breaking! Also still includes a combination of the horrid standard signal flares & poor signal sighting on close proximity to a signal, (that makes it near impossible to read the aspect, almost like its washed-out) - again long term issues with most routes that the community have to patch!

Would also of loved to have seen the signalling improvements such as Approach Release, as seen in the Cross City Line.

Neutral sections are a nice addition, however it taking 1 second for the whole process to fully happen (while driving a 8-car 386), doesn't again help with the immersion. Nor have i seen any Neutral Section Warning Boards or Indication Boards (unless im being blind!).

Stations look great, love the small interior details too. Make it much more lively!


Class 385:
Lets start with the positives and that would be mostly the model - it looks gorgeous (but as we know, looks can be deceiving!). Honestly its really nice and hopefully makes an appearance into TSC at some point.

First off before i get critical about the 387; im mainly basing my views on the experience i have dealing with its sister unit, the Class 80x. Yes there is a lot of similar bits and bobs, however happy to be educated if ive got it wrong, as the 387 isn't a unit I've come to deal with physicaly in my work on the railway!

However there is such weird and odd choices modelled in-game.

Here's my issues and gripes ive found so far:

• Opening/Closing the cab door from the outside and guards panels with a Master Key? Should be a T-Key!

• 'Keying-In' with a 'long' Master Key? Visually looks so odd!

• Guards Panel does not visually show that your key has been inserted and turned half way
  
  
• Dimmed' Headlights (i.e. daylight running lights) should be a dimmed version of 'Full' Headlights - not just marker lights (which are still ludicrously bright!)

• GSM-R Volume Up/Down buttons change the PIS destination - what? Should be in the TMS at least!

• Would of been nice to see the GSM-R powered on.

• Contact Signaller mapped to a PA cab phone, not the GSM-R's phone?!

• Very temperamental Door Interlock buttons - lights are not always on/randomly luminate throughput the journey - should be constantly on until a door is opened.

• BILs (Orange Lights on side indicating doors unlocked/no interlock) showing incorrectly - ON when a single door is opened (BIL's ON all coaches) and not lit when a cab door/local door is open. All most likely bugs (i hope).

• Door Release buttons should be lit when doors are open on applicable side

• Exterior & interior door buttons glowing green, even if doors are locked?

• Having to un-isolate the TPWS twice!! Cutting it in, then setting the TPWS Temporary Isolation to normal. This should be in normal by default and NOT require user input when setting up the cab. Same issue with the Class 484!

• TMS issues - especially the DAS, no visual display of you braking when in Minimum to 3/4 steps of braking.

• No Wheel Slide/Wheel Slip Protection notifications - i drive with the HUD off, cant visually tell if slipping half the time due to poor audio and/or lack of speedo displaying a slip/side.

• A stiff Power Controller - takes some keyboard key holding to move forward & back.

• The unit has very poor braking performance, that varies and is not consistent. Seems like there is a random weird mix of dynamic & friction braking occurring?

• Questionably loud cab audio as if a windows open (if only it had windows) - having the drivers internal cab door halfway opened seems to tone the noise down the the ambient volume found in the saloons though!

• Audio mixing isn't the best, seems to be speed based traction motor sounds.

• And just for a bit of fun, theres a Station Announcement included in TMS announcements!? "Fast Train Approaching". Why haha!

Probably not covered all the bits ive found and most likely will not be a issue to the average player (totally understand that!). But as a simulator & realism heavy gamer, im a sucker for the details which can make or break it for me.

I appreciate that hardly any of this issues will be fixed, but i thought id mention them!

 

Edinburgh Waverley has no lighting at night, looks way to dark

 

Museum of Scottish Railways:

A bit off topic, but after passing linlithgow direction glawgow i noticed a platform on the map. So i decided to visit the place in tsw, and actually you couldnt access the place since its fenced. So i was looking on maps where its leading, since im not familiar with the area.

Looks this small section of Manuel Station is leading right into a small "railway museum" in bo´ness.


So i was wondering if Rivet maybe plans to extend this small section with the upcoming "gameplay" dlc.







Especially now where steam got introduced, this section could be used for railtours. Seems a bit misterious, because its 1-2 miles to the place. I guess im thinking too much into that, chances are higher that rivet just didnt even think about using this small track section for this release or a future addon. Just thought about, since there is something steamy on the roadmap from them.

 

They won't add new tracks or trains with their gameplay pack. It's already been explained by dtg numerous times what an enhancement pack is. If it is still confusing, then think diesel legends.

 

Of course they wont, it represents Rivets point of view about those things and thinking ahead.

A to B was planned, A to B got delivered. Like dresden chemnitz without the railway museum, but instead dtg included it.

Another major missed opportunity in my opinion, considering the fact a dlc here even as extension would be perfect.

 

So I said I'd reserve judgement on route scenery until I'd had the chance to run more services, and now that I have (in a variety of conditions, but plenty in daytime/summer) I have to say I'm impressed.

As with most routes, I spent some time over the weekend with Google Maps to check out the authenticity of things like building placements, etc, outside of the station areas. Personally, if a route doesn't replicate real life locations fully, I'm not bothered - although it does interest me to think about why, etc.

But with this route, so far every place I've looked at (either from overhead satellite imagery or where there are roads next to rails, from the street view) has been faithfully recreated. Of course, not every street sign, lamp post, post box, etc is there and clearly for non-key scenery bespoke models and textures just aren't viable. But street layouts, all the buildings, layouts of fields and villages or industrial units - so far I haven't found anything I'd call "wrong".

One of the things I enjoy about TSW is that it feels a bit like I'm seeing new places, exploring new countries or regions - and so I will say that I'm really happy with the recreation of the Glasgow-Edinburgh part of the world in this route.

 

First of all, thanks to all of you for the feedback in here. Very happy about the positive feedback and the folks who enjoy the route, but also happy about the critism - have made a list and forwarded it to the team. I'll go over a few things in detail here.

I understand your point, but we needed to do this was for performance reasons. Building a station as big as Waveryley is super challenging, because it needs to run well in the game - with all the lighting, the trains and what not coming on top.

The sleeper issue is a known problem, have forwarded to the team anyway.

Thanks for flagging - will go back to the devs and see if there's a particular reason for that.

Thanks a lot for leaving positive feedback, much appreciated!

Happy to hear that someone did this too, thanks for sharing!

Have forwarded the sound issue to the team, will keep you updated on it.

Where do you have blurry wheels on the 385? I cannot reproduce that issue...

 

The blurry wheels wasn’t related to this route, we went off on a tangent.

 

The TMS needs some attention if it’s going to be used on other routes in the future. Really difficult to control using a console due to how small the buttons are and the performance on my Xbox reduced considerably when I tried using a wireless mouse instead.

Not specific to this route but I don’t think I’ll ever properly enjoy TSW until they’re able to recreate a network with a variety of routes. I’m already bored of driving the same route between Glasgow and Edinburgh and have felt the same with pretty much every other route. I think key to this will be getting more 3rd party devs onboard and finding a way of speeding up the production process.

 

Seeing as GSM-R has been turned into the way to control destinations, would it be possible to show the selected destination on the LED so that you don't need to keep switching between Cameras to see what you've switched to?

 

There are services seems to work as intended, but i got one starting from edinburgh which leaves the map after lilinthgow, there signals were red and turned only green after closing doors.

I discovered the 8 coach formation has wrong stopping points at haymarket both directions.

But scenery & featurewise the route and train looks visually superb, its just the sounds of the 385 ruins the experience. My suggestion: take action and go for a record session + update. Its never too late

Also: plesase have a look into the floating wheelset of the trailer bogies. Just connect it to s inner axlehousing. Right now its causing eye cancer lol.

 

Is this route still set to be released on PlayStation tomorrow?

 

Yes

 

my advice is to Manage your expectations!

 

I am so glad I read this thread before release on the PS5. I was cursing the delay last week, but now I'm relieved. I had booked Friday off work and was going to buy it as soon as it was available, but now after the absolute panning it's getting, I'm going to save my money. I really disliked the BCC and 323 (yawn fest), and this looks to be even worse and more buggy. I will carry on with my favourite UK routes for now (London Commuter and Tees Valley) and cross my fingers and toes for a decent (WCML pleeeeaaase!) UK release later this year. To echo the sentiments of so many others, I am so tired of new routes with just one EMU and a few class 66 freight journeys. What DTG did in the past with Tees Valley, Trans Pennine, and London Commuter was great. Now these one train snooze fests seem to be the norm

 

I kind of think that's a cheeky gimmick, when we've had steam layered into other routes but now we're paying for it. I can only assume it's a complete time table and something a little more but again will the route become a two horse pony

in my mind, just build it in scenario planner (if it's unlocked) run it each way and you've seen what you're paying for

 

You can check the current destination set at the TMS screen in the cab. I was able to fit both the buttons to change the destination and the TMS screen into one image (without having to look around).

 

any updates on recording sounds with scotrail? the ones in game pain my ears

 

I don't think they would have an update. It's only been a few days since it released. When it was stated, they didn't sound like it would happen right away. If you're on pc, a sound mod has been confirmed

 

That's not possible on Xbox. Certainly not with my default set-up anyway. Very odd decision not to include that on the TMS as it's really inaccurate having that on the GSMR.

 

Or if you have a USB keyboard connected to your Console (should have on a PC lol) you can press F7 and F8 to change the destinations.

Hentis

 

A few people have suggested that already. But 99% of the pathways for Scenario planner are rubbish. I mean look at Edinburgh Glasgow. Straight runs from each termini. You cant start from Eastfield or Haymarket (which is behind an invisible barrier...why??) so no depot runs. Cannot use the passing freight loops. Cannot use the pathways from Dunblane into Polmont. That really needs to be sorted.
Love the route but it does have limitations.

Hentis

 

Without breaking the route, is a timetable update possible from Rivet?

Glasgow - Alloa trains don’t exist after 2048, in reality there’s a 2152, 2219, 2251 and 2322, is there any reason why these don’t exist?