Rivet's 1938 Tube Stock - My Thoughts

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by paul.pavlinovich, Oct 15, 2021.

  1. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
    Visually the train is stunning, there's a couple of things wrong with it here and there but I overall love the way it looks from the way it reflects light outside from the highly polished paint befitting a preserved machine and the wonderful warm soft slightly yellow lighting inside the train.

    Its not all good news though, the sound as we've noticed on streams isn't exactly amazing in the cab. Its very quiet and you can hear much better sound in the passenger area than you can in the cab. If they can fix this this will be elevated substantially.

    The train does support Raildriver properly and works very well. Its playability is really good. The physics seems pretty decent to me and I enjoy driving it.

    Things I would like to see changed
    • Better in cab sound - make sure you can hear track noise, traction noise, and the thumpy air compressor especially when you are seated in the driving position - this is critical
    • Smoother sound transitions outside the cab
    • I'm not sure if core will allow it, but I would expect most drivers drove this in a standing position so it would be great if that was allowed
    • Move the brake gauge a bit left so you can actually read it and make the train pipe needle move when you apply the EP brakes - these do use air so the train pipe should move at least a bit
    • The speedo might be in the right place visually but its too high and is hard to have both the controls and speedo in the players field of view
    • Let us change all the destination boards - if I'm running it someplace else I don't want it to say Bakerloo

    Things that are better than the IoW version and would love to transplanted into that version
    • Master key mechanic is better - not perfect but better
    • Buttons "feel" nicer
    • Lighting fades on and off which is a nice touch with DC incandescent lights
    • Physics is significantly better than IoW
    • Overall visuals are better
    • Use of Raildriver is better with a more standard button arrangement
    The game did have a UE crash to desktop on my last drive, but given that's happened a bit lately since the last series of updates around Rush Hour I'm not prepared to blame the DLC for that one.

    You can see my review video if you're curious - I muck around constantly so don't expect too much in the way of seriousness :)....
     
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  2. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    Nice review. Good to see something balanced.

    I think they did show the destination boards being changed on the stream last night. You open the cabinet and then you can click on the inside and scroll. You are stuck with it saying ’Special’ though, which I find a bit annoying..

    EDIT : I guess you might mean the Line Board at the top. Looks like that can't be changed either.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2021
  3. conniethunder

    conniethunder Well-Known Member

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    What happened to your usual high quality?
    EDIT:
    It was originally only in potato cam mode. Now it's in 1080p. Weird.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2021
  4. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it doesn't look bad. My biggest concerns are the sounds and the timetable. The sounds can be improved later by mods, but what about the timetable? Does it feel empty when driving it in timetable mode?

    Also, I wonder if people would start making "retro" mods for the Bakerloo Line like they did for the GWE when the Diesel Legends pack dropped. Some texture replcements could make a nice retro feel to it to match the trains, I suppose.
     
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  5. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the review Paul.
    This has made it to the wishlist but I will hang back a bit from purchasing I think.
     
  6. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Actually i like the 38 stock. Its just the sounds which are ruining the experience. With the visuals and also timetable im ok.

    Anybody got the "uncouple" button ever working? :)
    Im sure i do something wrong
     
  7. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Yep that is correct. I didn't explain that well. The top board cannot be changed and the bottom board cannot be changed. The centre board has a number of fixed selections.
     
  8. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    I gave up waiting for the 2K version to finish processing before I posted. It was after midnight and I wanted to be up for this mornings stream. YouTube was being very slow processing videos last night.
     
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  9. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    I expect people will do that, I am hoping for it anyway. Yes it does feel a bit quiet, but Bakerloo always has. The 38 time table only has I think eight less trains than the default. Having driven it, I reckon it could run the original time table easily enough. Its pretty nippy and you wouldn't think so from my demo but it does brake well. The main reason I kept braking so late was sight seeing lol.
     
  10. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    I wanted to get it because it feels like driving a tram - it kind of sounds like one too to be honest lol. They will be very similar mechanically and electrically. I dare say it'll be on sale soon enough.
     
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  11. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    It does need better sound, but the sound isn't a massive off putter like it is in the 187. Its ok just very quiet in the cab. The sounds you want to hear are all there, just way too quiet.
     
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  12. Ravi

    Ravi Active Member

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    I am getting wheelspin every time I apply power to move from stationary state. Is anyone else seeing the same behavior?
     
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  13. zefreak

    zefreak Active Member

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    I bought it and it is quite a beautiful model, fun to drive as well. I hope they can fix the sounds as it is far too quiet while coasting, but it has gotten me to play the Bakerloo line again and I'm happy with it
     
  14. victor.malhard

    victor.malhard New Member

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    Me too.
     
  15. LWDAdnane

    LWDAdnane Active Member

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    Yep. Was this not an issue on IOW? Shame that it's made its way here.
     
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  16. lcyrrjp

    lcyrrjp Active Member

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    Does it make a difference which month you play in? I wonder whether the rails are more slippery in October (currently the default, of course) and November, as in reality? I’m not sure whether the real 1938 stock could normally handle full power from a standing start in autumn.
     
  17. lcyrrjp

    lcyrrjp Active Member

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    That would be fantastic. Driving the 1938 stock on a modern Bakerloo line is of no interest to me, but if someone produces a pack of retro mods then I’ll buy the stock (the same approach I took with Diesel Legends, although that pack is, alas, no longer available).
     
  18. Geth_2234

    Geth_2234 Well-Known Member

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    Would anybody in this thread who already has the 38 stock installed be able to give me some pointers if it is worth getting at the current price in its current state or is it worth waiting for a sale?
     
  19. victor.malhard

    victor.malhard New Member

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    There are sound issues inside the cabin, other than that it's worth 1000 times more than the 187.

    Fixing: the 187 isn't worth anything, spending money on it is equivalent to being stolen.
     
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  20. zefreak

    zefreak Active Member

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    I think it is worth it at full price if you like the unit, there are small issues and the sound should be improved but it is fun to drive
     
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  21. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Found this video which shows the green up nicely.

     
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  22. Geth_2234

    Geth_2234 Well-Known Member

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    .

    thank you I am interested in it I like anything underground really,

    The 187 is not something I know much about as I’m from the uk but after reading this and the steam reviews i don’t think I’ll be buying it:)
     
  23. rat7_mobile

    rat7_mobile Active Member

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    Just found ou the best way to stop the train is to slam the brake lever all the way to the right, and only release from this position when ready to move again, not much control as to where the train will stop but it does work
     
  24. WVUadam

    WVUadam Well-Known Member

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    The train is fantastic really nice model.

    The sounds make my experience feel not as enjoyable. Cab sounds sound quiet and cut in /out frequently. I felt the tutorial could of gone into more depth about the train, bit of history behind it.

    I hope there be better quality control than this.
     
  25. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    You got it right, the emergency brake is suppose to be the best way to get the train to a stop quick. Just not the way of daily practice :)
     
  26. rat7_mobile

    rat7_mobile Active Member

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    but you can not be at more than 15 outherwise it will not stop it unless it is going up and hill
    then again this train can only go faster than 15 going down a hill
     
  27. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Not on the 1938 no, not at all, not even when I'm silly with it. Are you playing in snow? wet? Or do you mean the 187 German machine which wheelspins when standing still?

    Paul
     
  28. LWDAdnane

    LWDAdnane Active Member

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    I had the same issues as Ravi. In dry conditions, was getting wheel slip for about half a second, whether I took off in the first power setting, or the third. I'm sure the 438 had this exact issue if I'm not mistaken.
     
  29. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    I think you're talking about the German locomotive, not this UK underground train :)
     
  30. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Posted my initial thoughts in the Dovetail Live thread. To summarise, it’s a 6/10 at best and borderline keeper. Physics are okayish but braking needs to be planned which is probably more accurate than the 1972 stock stop on a dime performance. Ironically choosing a foggy autumn morning I had no issues with wheelslip under power on the open air section, but kicked in with a vengeance accelerating away from the tube stations.
    Sounds are truly dreadful, again read my comments in the other thread but this should never have got through beta/play testing. Needs a serious revisit.
    Anything else? Oh yes, cab and instrument lights don’t work from the keyboard you have to manually find the button and press. Zero projected illumination from the headlights.
     
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  31. LWDAdnane

    LWDAdnane Active Member

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    Nope, it was this loco, during my first impressions stream. I've made that video private so I still have access to it, but I'm not sure I have the energy to download and spend time editing something like 2 hours of footage just to grab all the sections of the video where I departed stations. Very odd that's it's not something that everyone experiences, I wonder what the cause was.
     
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  32. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    After another quick play, decided to refund. I mean the external and interior is nice enough but I just cannot take those sounds.
    If this had been offered as freeware or low cost payware £4.99 then it would have been just about acceptable.
    Sorry but Rivet and their DTG sponsors need to learn this sort of quality is not acceptable in what is plying to be a AAA game.
     
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  33. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    I don't experience the wheelslip at all. I do see headlight projection in the tunnels too.

    For comparison here is the 1972 stock headlight projection in a tunnel and the 1938

    1972 stock
    upload_2021-10-19_17-52-14.png

    1938 stock
    upload_2021-10-19_17-58-54.png

    The amount of light is about the same. The old one has a stronger projection on the right hand side where its headlight cluster is.

    Paul
     
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  34. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I don’t even get that effect with the 1972 stock! I am running vanilla with no graphics mods.
    Wheelslip well I guess we will have to agree to differ and as I’ve now refunded it due to the rancid sounds, not in a position to test further.
     
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  35. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    That's weird, because the light from the headlights should be there.

    From the cab though, it's mostly visible only in the tunnels, as the tunnel walls are close to the body and you can see the light on them. On outside areas, as there are not many things close to the train there, often you will not see the light, so it might seem like there are none at all. It's there, you just can't see it from the cab.
     
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  36. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    What you saw there is vanilla, its at 2K with screen 200% OldVern I've got all mods and ini settings turned off until crashing is resolved to rule those things out when providing data to DTG to help find solutions.
     
  37. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    I compared the two tubeworms for accelleration and braking performance... see them run side by side

     
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  38. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Isn't the '38 stock supposed to be slower?
     
  39. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    A few people have been saying it is in the game, but clearly it isn't. I have no idea if it should be or not :). If you put down the weak field flag it is the same.
     
  40. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Did you use Forward 1 or Forward 2 on the reverser? I believe there are two settings on the '38 stock and apparently you're only supposed to use forward 1, or something like that.
     
  41. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Forward 2 is used. Forward 1 restriction as I understand it was for IoW due to constrained power supply issues that don't apply on the normal mainland network. I watched a documentary on the IoW upgrade recently and they can use full power there now too with the upgraded power supply, track and refurbished trains.
     
  42. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    The training said Forward 2, could have been the cause of the wheelslip. I never tried Forward 1.
     
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  43. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    How are you playing? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm curious how you're detecting the wheel slip - maybe I'm missing it?

    In this demo I started in full parallel which is not right but I did it deliberately for the demo, you would start in series then move to parallel after you've got some speed up.

    How are you detecting wheel slip? Are you interpreting the janky sound of the traction motors cutting out as back-off for wheel slip?

    Paul
     
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  44. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    By the wiggly red lines that appear next to the HUD speed read out. The wheel slip still occurred on moving gradually from Shunt - Series - Parallel, I didn't just throw it open to full throttle.
     
  45. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Ah that explains why I don't see it, I don't generally use the HUD :). I like it when the mystery goes away. Thanks.

    Out of interest while I have no idea if they do it with this train, I've seen this sort of controller used by taking it from standing start all the way to full power briefly then back to the first notch, then the next, then the last one. I wonder if this would work in this train. I'll give it a go when I crank up. I'll turn on the HUD and let you know.

    Paul
     
  46. 4-COR

    4-COR Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you could reduce the power on these units. I think, for example, if you wanted to go from parallel to shunt, you'd need to shut the power off, then go to shunt.
     
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  47. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    That is indeed working this way even in the real tube stock. Same for the 72 stock.

    Once in parallel, you need to close the power for applying shunt or series notch.

    Not sure the reason is technical or just more comfortable for drivers in the serial or shunting position.
     
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  48. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I remember a while ago on the Bakerloo I had no end of trouble with wheel slipping, going by the markings on the hud, no idea what caused it. I looked on the forums but couldn't find a cause. I might have been in the winter months (no snow) so just put it down to that,
     
  49. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    That is quite possible, it depends on the type of controller, some can do it, some can't. Some require you to go to off, some don't.
     
  50. LWDAdnane

    LWDAdnane Active Member

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    In all the routes atm (as far as I know) there is an issue where the game doesn't seem to treat underground tracks different to the ones above ground. So if it's snowing or raining outside and you apply full power for example, you will get wheel slip even in a tunnel. Quite silly really.
     
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