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Riviera Line + South Devon Main Line In The '50s: Exeter St Davids - Plymouth & Kingswear

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by jolojonasgames, Jul 6, 2021.

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  1. Yes

    23 vote(s)
    85.2%
  2. Maybe if it was on sale

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. No

    4 vote(s)
    14.8%
  1. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Hi all, as many of you know, steam for TSW is in developement. I have already made a suggestion for a German steam-era route (the Preußische Ostbahn: Berlin - Cüstrin, in the 1910's). This time I'd like to suggest a British steam route, already well known to TS players as the Exeter - Kingswear section of this route is already in TS classic. I have also made a suggestion for a modern version of this route, which might interest some of you.

    Contents
    • The route
      • General description and History
      • Services
    • Rolling Stock
      • What should come with the route
        • ex-GWR 4073 Class (Castle)
        • ex-GWR 5700 Class (Pannier Tank)
        • ex-GWR 6800 Class (Grange)
        • Coaches
      • DLC
        • ex-GWR 6000 Class (King)
        • ex-GWR 4700 Class ("Night Owls")
        • ex-GWR 4500 Class (Small Prairie)
    • Final words
    • Pictures
    The Route
    [​IMG]

    Please note the above map is slightly incomplete, missing a few stations that have been closed since the fifties.

    General description and History
    The route is set in the early fifties, not that long after the BR takeover of the 'big four' railway companies. This section of the network was previously operated by the famous GWR, and it's Exeter - Plymouth section forms part of GWR's former South Devon Main line. Between Exeter and Newton Abbot the line runs along the sea and mouth of the river Exe for long sections, providing beautiful views, especially along the infamous Dawlish Sea Wall. The Newton Abbot - Plymouth section was largely constructed on the former route of Isambard Kingdom Brunel's 'Atmospheric Railway', which causes it to have lower line speeds and steep gradients compared to the rest of the railway network. The section from Newton Abbot to Kingswear is part of the Riviera line, which also features challenging gradients. The line was originally constructed as a 7 ft 1⁄4 in broad gauge railway in the mid 1800s, but was later converted to standard gauge. During the fifties the route saw many holiday trains during the season, aswell as express trains, local trains and freight.

    Nowadays most of the line onceagain forms part of the (modern) GWR's network. The section between Paignton and Kingswear however is a preserved railway and no longer sees regular services. At Kingswear a wooden trainshed in Brunel's style has been preserved.

    The route is 103 km (64 mi), which places it at the edge of, but within TSW current route lengths.

    Services
    Exact service patterns are as always hard to find out for historical routes. However, as previously mentioned, during the fifties the route saw many holiday trains during the season, aswell as express trains, local trains and freight. The line saw a number of named expresses, among which the Royal Duchy, the Cornishman, Cornish Riviera Express, Mayflower, Merchant Venturer and Night Riviera (although some of these didn't start until the late fifties).


    Rolling Stock
    What should come with the route?

    ex-GWR 4073 Class (Castle)
    [​IMG]


    The Castle Class is a Class of 4-cylinder 4-6-0 steam locomotives. They had the for the GWR typical belpaire fireboxes. The Castles could reach speeds of up to 100 mph (160 km/h). The Castle Class could be seen hauling all but the heaviest of GWR express trains. More info on Wikipedia.

    ex-GWR 5700 Class (Pannier Tank)
    [​IMG]

    The Pannier Tanks were small 0-6-0T tank engines, designed for shunting duties. However, the class also operated many passenger and freight services on branch lines, or on short journeys along the main lines. At 863 engines built, they are among the most numerous of British steam engines. More info on Wikipedia.

    ex-GWR 6800 Class (Grange)
    [​IMG]

    The Grange Class was a mixed traffic 4-6-0 steam locomotive. It was constructed in the late '30s for GWR, and intended to replace the previous 4300 class. Effictively, it was a GWR Hall class with smaller driving wheels, resulting in a higher tractive effort. More info on Wikipedia.

    Coaches
    With this I'll onceagain try to stick to preserved items, as those are easier to do research on. A list of preserved (ex-)GWR coaches can be found here.

    Express trains
    [​IMG]
    Collet Corridor Third from 1938

    There are quite a few preserved pre-nationalisation GWR coaches. It would be great to see a few of Collet's designs, such as the Corridor Third from 1938 pictured above, or perhaps a brake 3rd open. Perhaps a few of Hawksworth's designs with their iconic rounded roof profile would be even more fitting for this route. There should probably also be a first and/or second class coach, or better yet, even a dining car, although some of these could be added with later DLCs such as the King Class (more on that below) providing more variety to the consists with every DLC. At the very least some GWR corridor coaches would be a more unique and interesting to see than the Mk1 stock already present in a few different versions in game. As far as I know on the western region at this time Chocolate/Cream was the most represented paint scheme, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Personally I'd also love to see an older design such as the Churchward Toplight Corridor Third from 1915 pictured below, though I'm not sure how typical these would be on express or local trains in the fifties.

    [​IMG]
    Hawksworth brake composite. Note the distinctive rounded roof ends.

    [​IMG]
    Churchward Toplight Corridor Third from 1915. They were called toplights because of the smaller windows above the main ones.

    Local traffic
    [​IMG]
    A pannier tank with an autocoach.

    For local services GWR's famed autocoaches would be a great (western) fit ;). These coaches (pictured with a Pannier tank above) allowed for control of the locomotives regulator, reverser (and whistle) from a cab car, brake commands had to be sent to the fireman that remained in the locomotive via a bell system that used different codes for transmitting commands.

    Other coaches (sleeper, mail, super saloons)
    [​IMG]
    A travelling post office coach.

    BR's wesern region also operated other ex-GWR rolling stock, such as sleeper coaches (I'm not sure if the Hawksworth Sleeper first from 1951 pictured below was used on this route, but I sure like it's look), mail coaches, and the famous Pullman Super Saloons built for boat traffic. All of these could make great fits for future DLCs, further enhancing rolling stock and service variety on this route. I'd love to see overnight sleeper and mail trains, aswell as more varied express consists and luxure boat trains with Pullman coaches myself.

    [​IMG]
    Hawksworth Sleeper First, the first of these were built in 1951.

    [​IMG]
    GWR super saloon.



    DLC
    As always, some locomotives could be DLC. Below I've listed some interesting options.

    ex-GWR 6000 Class (King)
    [​IMG]

    The King class was intended to haul the heaviest express trains GWR operated, and as a result it's design went right to the limits of GWR's loading gauge. It features smaller wheels then the Castle class, to accomodate a larger boiler. The King Class was the largest class of steam locomotives operated by GWR (except for the one-off 'the Great Bear'). The class proved quite succesful, hauling the heavy services at higher speeds than the Castle Class could. The Kings only needed assitance on the heaviest of express trains across the steepest of the gradients of the South Devon Banks (featured on this route), but were otherwise more than capable of hauling heavy passenger trains. In the late fourties and early fifties a number of King Class locomotives was painted in BR's Express Passenger Blue paint scheme, as pictured above. Personally I really like this paint scheme and would love for it to be featured alongside the standard 'Deep Bronze Green' used by BR passenger locomotives, which would give the rolling stock on the line some more variety. More info on Wikipedia.

    [​IMG]
    The usual Deep Bronze Green paint scheme.

    ex-GWR 4700 Class ("Night Owls")
    [​IMG]


    The 4700 Class were a class of 2-8-0 steam engines operated by GWR and later BR on (express) freight trains and occasionally heavy holiday express trains during the summer months. Due to most of their operations taking place at night, the class was nicknamed "Night Owls". Most of their operations took place between London, Exeter and Plymouth, making them a great fit for the route. No 4700's were preserved, but one is currently being rebuilt. Perhaps DTG could pair up with the Great Western Society which is building 4709, asking a slightly higher price for the loco, but donating a part of the profits to 4709's construction. More info on Wikipedia.

    ex-GWR 4500 Class (Small Prairie)
    [​IMG]

    The Small Prairies are a class of 2-6-2T engines built for GWR between 1906 and 1924. These mixed traffic engines mainly operated on branch lines. These locos were a frequent sight in the area, operating both stopping passenger services and light freight. More info on Wikipedia.

    Final Words
    I think this route could be a great introduction to British steam, for when 'Spirir of Steam' comes around. As DTG already has research on at least part of the route, this route will hopefully be easier to make. Please let me know what you think of the route, and which locos you'd like to see most :).

    Pictures
    [​IMG]
    Castle no. 5055 'Earl of Eldon' on the Dawlish Sea Wall

    [​IMG]
    6877 'Llanfair Grange' at Exeter St David's

    [​IMG]
    6018 'King Henry VI' with The Mayflower at Dawlish, 1958

    [​IMG]
    4705 at Exeter St David's

    [​IMG]
    4569 at Dawlish

     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2021 at 4:47 PM
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  2. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Really excellent idea this would be perfect for a challenge run if the development team wants one on this route. There's a Workshop Wednesday video of Jamie playing part of the route.
    Further more all of these locomotives will then later on to a future Great Western Main Line London Paddington to reading in the steam era DLC. Complete with GWR 5700 Duck operating shunting operations in this route and autocoach Push Pull
     
  3. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Yes, quite a few of the workshop streams feature the Riviera line, it's quite fun and I'd love to see that line (and a little more, the main section to Plymouth) with TSW graphics.

    The autocoaches could also be great on this route, they're really unique. I wouldn't be sure how braking would be handled in game though, as the driver can only apply and not release the brakes as far as I know (this was done by the fireman who remained in the cab).
     
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  4. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Great suggestion, probably one of the most iconic stretches of railway line in the UK.

    Personally I would swap the Grange for a Hall just because they were that little bit more common and you could a mixtures of the Collet and Hawksworth builds. I did think when the TS1 version came, whilst a Pannier should be obvious the large or small Prairie would have been a more obvious inclusion as they would have been more likely seen on the stopping services. Large Prairies were also used for banking in places like Dainton which starts at Aller Junction. The Pannier would have been more confined to shunting and local pick up goods, ideally both would be included.

    If the Brixham branch was included, it is only a couple of miles long then a 14xx and Autocoach would be desirable. It could be extra DLC I guess.

    Victory Works managed to get Autocoaches to work in TS1 where you use a series of bell codes to contact the fireman, it is very immersive. I am sure it could work in TSW.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2021
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  5. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    You make a few fair points about the choice of rolling stock. I'm sure some alterations in what comes as standard and what is DLC could be made to give a higher variety of services from the start.
     
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  6. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    The original TS1 Riviera 50's package was comprehensive, although I didn't see the need for four 4-6-0's. Personally I would have dropped the King for something like a 28xx, Prairie or a Mogul. The Centenary stock was an odd inclusion as they were not that common, a good comprehensive set of Hawksworths would have been better.

    I have a horrible feeling a TSW version out of the box would have a Castle and a Pannier, some mark 1 carriages (for everything) and a small selection of freight wagons. The Brixham branch service would be a Pannier propelling a mark 1 BSK up and down the branch.
     
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  7. tibomatthijs

    tibomatthijs Active Member

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    this would be an very nice route for steam!
     
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  8. Stephen Crofts

    Stephen Crofts Well-Known Member

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    This would be an ideal route that would just keep on giving. It could be expanded with packs goodness knows how many times and still be very popular.

    However, having steam really has to be the excuse to move away from just having mk I coaching stock, pleeeeeease!
     
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  9. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I'd love to see some older GWR corridor coaches, but I'm not sure whether they were still in use by the fifties. The overuse of mk1 stock is even an issue in current day preservation, and it's a shame to see unique coaches just rotting away sometimes.

    If anyone can tell me which unique coaches could come with this, I'd love to know.
     
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  10. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    GWR corridor coaches were still in use well into the 60's and would still have been very common on express services by the end of the 50's.
     
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  11. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Thanks! I'll see if I can do some research on them and add them into the main post later today :).
     
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  12. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    There is now a section on coaches aswell :).
     

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