1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Road Map Has It Become A Train Wreck?

Discussion in 'Xbox Discussion' started by friskey.marcedes, Feb 10, 2021.

  1. friskey.marcedes

    friskey.marcedes Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2020
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    59
    I'm sure we all welcomed the idea of the road map at the outset but it has gone from bad to worse as the weeks have gone by and this week even DTG admitted that it is now to be radically overhauled.
    Surely someone needs to "get a grip" at DTG and prioritise the priorities based on largely our feedback. Why are staff working on niche issues such as raildriver compatibly (how many players have one and you can't even buy them and if you could they are stupidly expensive!) when there are big issues like memory optimisation that needs total focus to resolve.
    The same thing with the preservation crew don't they need to fix the major bugs like the scenario in Ruhr Sieg Nord that has never worked for months - it only requires one AI train to be freed up to work.
    I accept that there are a lot of moving parts to a train simulator and we are happy to put up with a few gripes along the way like SEHS which is very playable even with the bugs.
    Perhaps the new Community Director's first jobs is to seek our views about what are our priorities and to ensure that is front and centre in how the road map moves forward.
    My other gripe is that the key missing ingredient on the roadmap is timescale and Sam has said we can get a feel based on how things have panned out in recent months. We are grown up to accept that things may slip down and up the list but each heading should have a timescale - within 4 weeks; 8-12 weeks; 12-16 weeks; 16- 24 weeks; 24 weeks (6 months)+ etc
    Any of us who have worked in a large organisation understands that communication is difficult but we need someone to be responsible and accountable to ensuriing there is clarity as RoadMap 2.0 leaves the station....
     
    • Like Like x 4
  2. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2020
    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    309
    The problem with the old format was it was becoming more difficult to maintain the accuracy of it. Adding any kind of time scale will make it even harder to keep accurate and every time something doesn't arrive within the vague window people will complain about 'broken promises' or something along those lines.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  3. david-bright184169

    david-bright184169 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2020
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    73
    I have no idea what that was about on the stream,
    after listening to Sam waffle on for 20 minutes and then Adam give his 5 word explanations,
    I switched off and did something else.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  4. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    937
    Likes Received:
    1,079
    Exactly, putting any form of timescale sets DTG up for being hounded for lying (honestly, the community would have an absolute field day, possibly a field week) - even if it's just a vague "within the next x weeks". It's why the roadmap (and announcing DLC so soon) is such a new thing, because before it, any project could be cancelled for any reason until the moment of release. That's now less likely to happen.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  5. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2018
    Messages:
    1,695
    Likes Received:
    1,996
    The Raildriver part of your post I’m with you there. I don’t really understand that either. Seems a lot of effort for a very niche area when there is another list of stuff with the basic gameplay to get right first.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  6. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2019
    Messages:
    543
    Likes Received:
    1,556
    My personal issue with RailDriver is that it is seen as a ‘necessary’ feature, when, as said, it is niche to even the PC playerbase, whilst console players, which make up the majority of their users, have to suffer from limitations that need to be overcome.

    Im not saying that the team working on rail driver would necessarily be taken from the team that are responsible for memory optimisation, or even that DTG should not work on items that improve the PC experience, but surely the team working on raildriver could be working on other input improvements, such as keyboard mapping (which the majority of PC users are calling for), enhanced control settings, better controller layouts, custom controller layouts & mouse support for console.

    RailDriver would surely be great for those that use it, but is it really a priority over any of the above improvements that need to be made?
     
    • Like Like x 6
  7. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    937
    Likes Received:
    1,079
    I think they're using raildriver as a base for all of that sort of stuff. Also you can remap keyboard controls - on PC anyway.
    Equally they may not, but they're defo doing it for external hardware support.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2021
  8. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    754
    Likes Received:
    1,103
    It's understandable that PS4/5 and XBOX players would consider Raildriver to be a niche app or a distraction, but I'd like to make a couple of points in its defense.
    1. RD owners have been pleading for TSW compatibility for several years, really ever since launch.
    2. As has been said, RD compatibility is part of the need to move towards external hardware support in general.
    3. Raildriver has been and is compatible with all other train sim games- TS, TRAINZ in all its versions, RUN 8, World of Subways, Train Master, MSTS and Open Rails. It would be shortsighted of DTG to be the odd man out.
    I doubt very much that the RD app has taken anything away from other projects at DTG, it's quite a small thing really. For TS, PIE provides the software I believe. For TSW2, DTG has chosen to make it natively compatible. I would hope that everyone involved can create console compatibility in the not too distant future.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2021
    • Like Like x 2
  9. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    937
    Likes Received:
    1,079
    Compatibility on consoles is out of DTG's hands. It's down to PIE, and Sony/Microsoft.
     
  10. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    2,504
    Likes Received:
    3,057
    It's also the case that while owners of Raildriver and other dedicated train controllers might be a niche market, they're a hardcore niche market, the ones likely to buy the most product.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  11. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    754
    Likes Received:
    1,103
    Well right now PIE has said they have no plans for console. And, in any case, RD currently requires some iteration of the Windows OS. For PlayStation, it would require a version for Orbis. Xbox has a version of Windows, but is probably not compatible. So, from a business POV, RD is unlikely to come to console, unless there's a much more substantial market than it appears currently. I wish it were otherwise.
    (I'm afraid we've taken this thread off topic).
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2021
  12. Bryer

    Bryer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    Messages:
    830
    Likes Received:
    792
    It would be relatively easy to add Rail Driver to Xbox as you would be able to use the Xbox adaptive controller protocols to do everything that the rail driver controller does.
     
  13. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    3,175
    Likes Received:
    3,267
    I think raildriver should be a low priority. The majority of the player base doesn't have raildriver and not being able to use raildriver isn't the end of the world. Hell if they are gonna make raildriver that high of a priority then they might as well make vr a high priority then since i've seen countless theads asking for vr even though they are both a niche market
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. hypospray

    hypospray Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2020
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    25
    The questions is: How many people (would) actually use raildriver on Xbox ? 1 % ... 2 % maybe?
    It does not make much sense to put something on high priority that barely anyone will benefit from.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  15. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2020
    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    309
    A sim racing game without wheel support would be absolutely slated, even though it's fairly likely that the majority of players would use a controller. I don't expect at any point in my life I will use rail driver but for those that do, it will complete the sim experience. Plus I doubt adding rail driver support will really draw that many resources away from other aspects of the game. I don't think it's a problem for them to add support for it in the slightest.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    3,175
    Likes Received:
    3,267
    Racing wheels are much more affordable then raildriver
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2019
    Messages:
    543
    Likes Received:
    1,556
    Wheels are a different kettle of fish, they’re much more versatile than RailDriver, far more available, and more widely used.

    also the context in which TSW has added support for RailDriver, is different to that in which wheel support is added to its appropriate games.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    754
    Likes Received:
    1,103
    Not sure what this means. Can you be more specific?
     
  19. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2019
    Messages:
    543
    Likes Received:
    1,556
    Well to be simple and blunt, most games don’t play catch up on fixing their game after every content release.

    Something that is as important immersion wise as RailDriver or a Wheel, is added pre release or soon after, but is certainly thought through more thoroughly than RailDriver is currently being dealt with.

    Again, comparing the 2 is completely pointless because they’re for vastly different markets, developed under different circumstances.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    754
    Likes Received:
    1,103
    This, I think, is the "context". I assume that those in this thread who object to the Raildriver beta, would similarly reject future support for other types of external hardware, such as a next gen Xbox or Playstation. Yes/No?
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2021
  21. friskey.marcedes

    friskey.marcedes Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2020
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    59
    Good to see the debate this has provoked and didn't think the RD issue would be the main contentious issue.
    Thinking about it more who decides what the Preservation crew does next - Adam mentioned Rapid Transit being up next. Shouldn't the most popular DLC's be first for the Crew to sort out? Do them in order of popularity so there can be no argument about where in the list a DLC would be addressed. The PIS is a really nice addition when you are bored waiting in stations to see what's going on and would be helpful on some German routes to help identify where the train is going as its difficult in some routes to work it out.
    Subconsciously I don't play certain routes as I'm waiting for the Preservation Crew to update them as you know there will be improvements.
    Another contentious area for me is wheher the Scenario Designer updates are a priority as the main scenarios and timetable services. I did a major scenario designer on NTP the other day and guess what it crashed at you know where - Miles Platting! Rolled my eyes and gave up as lesson learnt don't tempt fate!
    I do think with the new Community Director starting we might have an influence on his approach so let him know what you think.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  22. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    3,175
    Likes Received:
    3,267
    TSW2 is already Backwards compatible with Xbox Series S/X and ps5 anyways so what you said there makes no sense and is pointless
     
  23. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    754
    Likes Received:
    1,103
    Well, I think you missed my point, but that's likely my fault. Matt is talking about external hardware in general. Maybe next gen consoles were not the best examples to illustrate what I was trying to say, especially since my knowledge of consoles is rather limited. There are better examples. I don't want to prolong this RD discussion unnecessarily because I doubt if we can ever agree, but, if you care to look, you can find several threads asking DTG for new versions of TSW2 for the new consoles, as referred to by the above quote from DTG Protagonist. Whether it's for RD or some other software project, it's still work, is it not?
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2021
  24. L89

    L89 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2020
    Messages:
    821
    Likes Received:
    602
    Having a dedicated version could allow for extra graphical settings to be turned up taking advantage of the extra horsepower. Right now we are limited to playing the last-gen Xbox One X version (with 4K toggle) on a Series X. Better draw distance, anti-aliasing, higher level of detail closer to PC etc. Still there is the advantage of higher FPS and faster load times on next-gen.

    I could also mention HMA layers (until optimisation is done) but major gameplay enhancements might not be allowed if they can't be used on last-gen.
     
  25. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    2,504
    Likes Received:
    3,057
    It ain't all that on PC....
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  26. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    3,175
    Likes Received:
    3,267
    That is true but with the majority of players playing on last gen, we won't be seeing that for a while
     
    • Like Like x 1
  27. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Community Manager Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2020
    Messages:
    729
    Likes Received:
    4,350
    To answer the thread title. 'Road Map Has It Become A Train Wreck?' The short answer is yes.

    It became unusable which is exactly why we are reworking it. We want to ensure that when you read the Roadmap you can trust what you are reading and that it is accurate and reliable information we are sharing with the community.

    Due to some errors in communication on our end, you were getting a Roadmap that contained out of date or simply wrong information.
    We have fixed the communication internally and we are confident that going forward the Roadmap will be easier to digest for everyone.

    At the moment you are aware that the current focus for the preservation crew is fixing LIRR. When we decide what to work on next there are many elements we look at, community feedback being a core part of the decision making.
    We have to consider how long a route has been out. That we ensure all routes get fair time spent on them. What has been reported. What are the main team currently focused on. And the community opinion, don't underestimate how much of an impact your feedback has.

    The reason we don't provide you with a timescale is that we don't always know ourselves how long something is going to take before it is implemented. We have a rough idea how long a fix will take, but that's on the assumption everything goes to plan and there are no complications along the way.
    If we guessed a timescale and provided you with an estimate of when we think an update will be implemented this would inevitably lead to disappointment when we didn't meet the dates provided for one reason or another.

    We don't want to promise something we aren't 100% sure we will be able to deliver when we say we will.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Helpful Helpful x 2
  28. robtorres718

    robtorres718 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    28
    I have been patiently waiting for the LIRR to be fixed... audio, lighting, proper signs and signals etc. Months of waiting to see a new TSW arrive... and see that the LIRR is worst than before... and still waiting for fixes... however, I've seen in the last 3 months the LIRR was pushed back 3 times... and it was for platform departure boards... then audio showed up and suddenly disappeared. I would like to see increased traffic, audio and lighting fixes and proper signs and signals in the barren 2 tone tunnels... I have been going back to my world of subways, NYC 7 line recently. Don't ever wait for DTG to do what they say... they never finish what they start.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  29. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    3,175
    Likes Received:
    3,267
    I've been waiting months for lirr fixes as well. I think it's ridiculous that it's taken this long to even start work. Maybe if they took the time to fix these clearly clear bugs, Adam's team could be working on other projects. I guess better late then never but I still think that's unacceptable. I haven't played lirr when it came to tsw2 because of all these issues
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
  30. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    2,504
    Likes Received:
    3,057
    Jesus, guys. Fixes are done on a route by route basis. It's LIRR's turn at the head of the line now.
     
  31. hypospray

    hypospray Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2020
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    25
    Thats the reason, why I did not bought TSW 2 on my Series X, and switched fully over to PC instead.
    The graphic quality, and now the (temporal) denial of content (missing HMA layers) is insulting for me as next gen console player.

    Don't get me wrong, I like the TSW 2 very much, but the console version simply feels castrated because the burden of backwards compatibillity to 8 year old outdated consoles.
     
    • Like Like x 2

Share This Page