Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Aug 24, 2021.
On stream they said the release isn't postponed only the stream perhaps, has this changed?
People need to remember that if you bought the Rush Hour Ticket, then you're only paying £10.50p per route! (I'll let you do your own currency conversions)
I know that the PC users have been far more fortunate getting a working update, but even with the bugs, bad AI and querky safety systems, Boston is an absolute bargain of a route/set of locos.
Let's let the dust settle, get PS4 users up and running and then see what we've got to look forward to over the next month
I was referring to the explanation that the stream has moved. It has been done so to not annoy PS4 players who have been without large parts of the game for nearly a week.
Well, I paid $11.99 per route which equates to 8.71 pounds, so I guess we got even more of a bargain Stateside.
Wow people jump to conclusions quickly.
DTG won't show the next route as it's inappropriate when some of people can't even access the game, which I think is understandable. Why does there have to be some sort of ulterior motive? It's like people are actively finding reasons to distrust DTG.
Just the stream is postponed, the release is still on track
I agree the first priority should be resolving the issues that those on PS4 are having not being able to access the content first.
To avoid any doubt - we're not going to talk about upcoming routes until the Rush Hour launch problems have been rectified. For those who don't understand why we're doing this, take a moment to consider how you'd react if it was your platform that was currently locked out. There's no delay to the route, we just don't want to rub in what the unlucky PlayStation 4 owners are missing out on.
I couldn't agree with more on this, the first priority at this point is to get the PS4 users back online and their access back to the content they have paid for.
tantrum ≠ sivilized discusion
people tantrum they dont have discusion rhey difrent
That is the ‘diplomatically adjusted’ player split DTG told us a while back but in reality Playstation players will be the biggest slice. It stands to reason, there are just so many more PS4 and PS5 units around than the equivalent xbox units and consoles are less expensive than gaming PCs. It doesn’t really matter one way or the other, we’re all just TSW2 players at the end of the day.
The route isn’t delayed yet but it could be if the PS4 situation persists beyond the date when it would have released, however unlikely that is. Delaying the stream is out of respect for those with dead games and is a no-brainer of a decision.
Was that a tantrum? It was, I think. You’ve just had a tantrum.
I’m very eager to see the two remaining routes of Rush Hour myself but wasn’t expecting to yet once the PS4 situation looked like it wasn’t going to be a quick fix. I’ve already bought the season pass so I know that when both routes are ready I’ll be getting them to play, and if that means waiting so that all players have a working game, then so be it. As a community we should all be standing together with those who cannot use their game, however big or small that part of the player base is and however little it’s going to really affect the rest of us.
I was only ever interested in the BML, I'm a UK only kind of guy, and that's a little ways off anyway, so I have no problems waiting longer to hear more news whilst the ongoing situation is resolved.
I am also eager to see the 2 remaining routes release, I do not think that anyone was expecting the problems that are being encountered at this point. I am willing to wait for them as they release. You're correct as a Community we should be standing together with the PS4 users until they once have access to their paid content.
Of course, absolutely. I would feel wretched had it happened to me.
Which has passed on! This route is no more! It has ceased to be! It's expired and gone to meet its maker! It's a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed it to the perch it'd be pushing up the daisies! Its metabolic processes are now history! It's off the twig! It's kicked the bucket, it's shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-ROUTE!!
It is a zombie route, a Day-Z route, a Frankenstein route, a Resident Evil route, a Back for Blood route ... just because it will never die!
But how are they missing out on Dresden-Riesa? Didn't you say in the stream buying new stuff works? Wouldn't it be good to provide stuff that works while waiting for the issues to be resolved? Just wondering, I am quite disappointed the preview is postponed, and had the feeling different teams are involved in these things so it would not delay working on a solution.
You need to read between the lines a bit. It's all about public perception....if they were to stream a new route coming out it makes it appear they are more focused on promoting new content rather than fixing the issues at hand.
It is a PR move to save face, nothing more. Some hardware reviewers did something similar back around the launch of the new RTX cards because they didn't want to keep showing off something that no one could actually use, while they were sent samples for free. A token of consideration, if you will.
I think you missing the point being made, and while PS4 users cannot access what they own it would unfair to preview the next route coming out. PS4 users could see it as there problem is being ignored and that is what DTG does not want to project.
Let’s be honest, in the grand scheme of things does it really matter? I’ve only done 4 services on
Boston so far and I’m enjoying old routes under 4.26. Everything is here when it’s here. It’s likely that people are only going to moan about the branch lines going anyhow so let’s just chill and enjoy working Out the Boston safety systems for a bit longer.
It’s the potato’s weird and ancient set up fault, not DTG
PS4 users might be back in business!
Nat has stayed up past her bed time to tell us
...only kidding chuck.
And we did not even get 1 after they said that? Yes. I will never forget the Numerous Lies Dovetail have come up with. The PC Editor, The Bakerloo Service Expansion, The Cut Riesa - Dresden Branches (Like most people, I would have rathered the route be delayed rather than it be cut by about 25%. It is now no more than an Ordinary German Route), The fact that Bakerloo and SKA would get the new passenger system at the same time as NECBP comes out, then that it would get it not much longer, and now that it is down to in planning, The 1 Steam Article a Month, The All-Preserved Collection will release at the same time, the 'Big' Announcement which was the console TSW, the Class 313 going back to In Production and not coming back up (it has been a Year Now and we have not even had a WIP screenshot. I hope we get a Damn Good Loco for how long this has taken), the 'Rush Hour will cost £24.99 for all 3 and will launch at the same time, the Core Update Releasing on 17th August. Heck, the Summer 2021 release date is probably a Lie, considered Riesa - Dresden will probably launch 9th of September, which really is not enough time until September 21st for Initial Screenshots, 1st Preview, Second Set of Screenshots, 2nd Preview, a Third Article, and then Release, which is usually 3 Weeks to a Month. Boston Sprinters First Screenshots came 21st of July, and the route launched on August 19
That is the problem with TSW and a load of other games. The last generation consoles came out in 2013 and were probably being designed for 1-2 Years Before That. I play TSW on PC, but I have heard of the Terrible Performance on Boston Sprinter on XONE and PS4. In the next year, it's only going to get worse as routes get longer and more detailed. Plus, with all the particles and effects from Steam Locomotives, it will become practically unplayable. Dovetail will never admit this. They are wasting time and money and route length designing for Old, and at this point, obsolete hardware. Compare this to an Average Gaming PC from the Time. You still get 40-60 FPS on most routes and a Gaming PC from the time can probably be built for 150-300 Pounds. Last Gen Console Performance is only going to get worse as time goes on. Unreal Engine is a resource-heavy game engine. Dovetail will start getting negative reviews on routes as time goes on about last-gen performance, which will result in a lower overall rating and reduce sales on all platforms. In the next 6 months to a Year, Next-Gen Consoles will be more widely distributed, and as such, they will be on sites like eBay for not much money. You can, as of now, get an Xbox Series S for £250 NEW. on CeX UK, a 1 TB Xbox One X is £215 on CeX. Heck, on the same website, you can get the XSS for £230. Spend the extra £15. It's worth it. Last Gen Performance can and will take a toll on sales. It's similar to Apple. They supported the iPhone 4S for too long, and at the end of its life, it was unusable on iOS 9. Dovetail is in the same position. They are supporting last-gen consoles for too long, and they are almost unplayable on newer routes. Plus, the Hard Drives in these old consoles is a Problem As well: They start to fail. If someone has had an Xbox One or PS4 since Day 1, their Hard Drive is probably on the way out. These consoles came out 8 YEARS AGO. 8 years. The next-gen has been out for almost a year now. DTG, if you see this. Discontinue making content for last-gen consoles. It would come with many advantages: Longer Routes. Larger Timetables (The fact that Boston Sprinter, the busiest route in the whole US, has only 187 Services, only around 20 of which are Amtrak, is stupid), More Detailed Routes, more locos included with routes, more simulated actions (Guard, On-Board Announcements, Etc), and even a More Capable Livery Designer Capable of letting you use more tiles per carriage
So, you want them just to dump a half or more of their customer base? PS5s and XBox Series are very difficult to find and when one can, they're going for scalper prices. 8th-gen are going to be the majority of the installed console userbase for at least the next year.
This PC Master Race bigotry is really getting tiresome, even to this PC user.
No, it's accurate. It represents the genuine 2019 timetable, except for the Acela services (and an invisible layer exists for those, in anticipation of the DLC). There are roughly 500 other services in-game, all of which have to be AI because they don't go to Providence.
WRONG. Route length is limited by development time and budget, NOT by hardware.
Interestingly kudos simulation have announced today they are now only supporting gen 9 consoles moving forward today in their new announcement
For what game?
I believe it was Assetto corsa competizone for any new content. I do recall those last gen consoles were a dogs dinner for that game anyhow. I think they mentioned they’re working on their next sim too which won’t support last gen
Ohh. Well in fairness acc hasn't had new dlc's in quite a while so i thought that game wouldn't have anymore dlc's
DTG will have to decide which way they are going to go in terms of what consoles they are going to plan for. In an ideal world they would have three teams, PC, Last Gen and current Gen. Current Gen will be over taken quite soon by the PC market in terms of specs for the average user as has been the case with all console releases this is not a slight but reality, I just bought a Series S so I'm not trying to be elitist.
I have never understood DTG's policy of getting the TSW 2 the same over all the different formats indeed we are now seeing DTG do extra stuff for the current Gen. Each different Gen should be used and taken advantage of, whether that be a PS4 or a top end PC but one format shouldn't be held back either that seems like cutting your nose off to spite your face.
Should DTG drop last Gen now? Would be a huge mistake to imo especially with the timing of the current Ps4 problems but DTG must be thinking on it and perhaps sooner than you think. High end PC cards are now starting to appear and if the current Gen consoles start to appear in shops people will be buy them. And if they do and DTG do another big release and get into more problems with the last Gen, I can see people being annoyed and the game stagnating. Perhaps they will release a TSW3 but only for current Gen and PC?
But in the end it be probably be more about numbers knowing DTG. If there is slow take up with the current Gen then I can see DTG sticking with the last Gen despite high end cards coming to the PC.
PS Couldn't DTG have done a TSW2 play stream with customers able to ask questions and perhaps hearing more on the updates rather than just nothing?
Yeah, I think eventually it will make sense to move on from Xbox One and PS4 entirely, and it probably makes sense to do that with TSW3 (if that comes).
Unfortunately, there will be a day when the current crop of consoles lack too far behind to warrant the effort. To be honest, with many games, the earlier models from the 'last generation' are really showing their age.
Definitely not time to move on yet, but at some point it will have to happen.
Couple of things:
PS4 ownership is still 9 or 10 times that of PS5.
People are still buying the PS4 in large numbers. The PS5 is only marginally outselling PS4 on a monthly basis.
Reckon on at least a couple of years before next gen console ownership even approaches that of PS4.
DTG will, I would suspect, have no plans to "move on" for the foreseeable future.
Exactly my point. For the moment it just doesn't make sense. In 2 or 3 years time at least, once supply issues have resolved themselves most developers will begin to fully shift to the new platforms and away from the older ones entirely. Sony and Microsoft will reduce their support for them also.
It is inevitable and unavoidable. The question is not one of if DTG fully moves over but when. To me, it makes sense for that to be the release of a new game. A potential TSW3 would hopefully be a technical leap forward and releasing the game on the older consoles would serve to divert resources to platforms with a dwindling return.
I would think that DTG will consider TSW3 once the old consoles start failing to provide an adequate return.
Pure speculation on my part of course. Interesting to think about though.
Interesting considering in January of this year Sony announced the discontinuation of most PS4 consoles.
Also your numbers are wrong PS5 sold 7.8 million units and PS4 sold 7.6million in the last fiscal year. Since the PS4 was out for the full fiscal year and PS5 was only available for 2/3 of the year. That tells me that PS5 sold more.
So yeah don't make up facts you don't know. And it's not that hard I just called 2 stores since its only 7:42pm here in Calgary and combined they have 38PS5's for sale and 23 Xbox Series S and 28 Series X. So it is alot easier to get than it was 2 months ago.
And why are major games skipping the older consoles? It was announced the next WWE game will not be coming out for the older Gen. Nor will the next Forza Motorsport game. And a bunch more.
Like it or not the older console will fade out quickly ... they did when we went PS3 to PS4, and Xbox 360 to Xbox One. And many generations before it's been the same I've seen it since the NES upgraded to the SNES, and Sega Master System to Sega Genesis. I don't see why it would change this time around.
Heck even your Smart phone becomes obsolete after a year of a new model is released. Welcome to the world of tech
The Last Gen Consoles are becoming a Problem. With this sort of performance in Boston Sprinter, which is probably the smallest Timetable of the 3 RH routes, what can we expect from Riesa - Dresden and Brighton Main Line? And steam too. Last Gen Console Performance is only going to get worse as routes get larger timetables, more trains with them, and more detailed stations. Steam trains WILL kill last gen consoles with all the effects. I am worried whats going to happen about this. Whether 2022 is TSW3, TSW2023, TSW RH 2, or Spirit of Steam, last gen consoles are going to suffer badly. Its what happens when you continue to develop for an old, and at this point, obsolete, platform.
If DTG do not want to discontinue last gen consoles, then they will have to lower the Quaility of the PS4/Xbox One Versions Drastically.
Thats also why i do not see a switch version coming soon. The switch is already far less powerful than PS4 and Xbox One and the PS4 and Xbox One versions run terrible now
I am definitely concerned about the addition of steam. My frame rate is halved at least when there is a lot of diesel smoke on the screen. Even just normal running will have frame rate drops if I'm external view looking at the wrong angle.
With the rarity of the PS5/XBox series X They still have sold well and once supplies are back for the gaming customer surely sales will take off no?
Do you really think it would be a couple of years? Even though it is pure speculation on my part I would have said a bit sooner than that. I say this because of Steam coming to TSW2 or could you see DTG saying Steam will not be going to the last Gen console's at all?
I could very well see them saying Steam will be exclusive to the newer consoles and PC.
Its like I said way back when they first introduced Rush Hour. There is no way my Xbox One will be able to have all the new features. And low and behold it looks like the larger timetable and extra passengers drop the frame rate to virtually unplayable.
No layers added to HMA or full GWE timetavle. And I'm pretty sure there is not going to be full timetables for the next 2 routes if they are supposed to be busier than the Boston Sprinter route.
And to fix the FPS they just are going to put the passenger numbers back to what they were.
That was the reason why I knew I needed to get a Series X back in March.
Considering steam's under development now I think it's gonna come out within the next year. If that's the case (or even if it gets held up for two) I highly doubt it would skip PS4 or Xbox One. Sony aren't even ready to make true exclusives for their next gen consoles. If they aren't there's no chance that DTG are gonna do anything exclusive to them within that period. They've always been a company about maximizing profit, and dropping the two biggest console platforms when most people are still playing them ain't gonna happen under their watch.
Frankly I don't believe they're gonna be doing anything platform exclusive on TSW2. I tend to think they're more than likely only gonna drop last gen consoles when they make a new TSW installment, probably based on Unreal 5.
The worrying thing is if indeed steam is released on last gen consoles, I can only imagine that the quality of what will be produced by DTG will be very poor, to ensure it is able to run well on those consoles. It will be a shame if future product quality is held back because DTG can't let go of last gen.
Well we've already with RH reached a point where last-gens have a different version of the game, so I guess even with steam we might end up seeing them get a different version not significantly hindering PC/PS5/Series X/S.
I really do hope so. I'm not exactly a steam fanatic, but I would like to experience it in as much of it's glory as possible when the time does come. By making a different versions, last gen players don't get left out as well, which I've seen them worry about a little on other threads.
Exactly, so people should stop worrying about last gen consoles "holding back" the development of the game. Everyone will get an appropriate version of the game, based on his/her hardware, from this point on. No one will be excluded.
What slightly amuses me is the specter of new PS5/Series X/S players now lording it over their former playmates. Some P C players have, of course, been doing that for years.
It's really silly and unnecessary.
I think rather than reaching a point of "last-gen is holding us back" it will (and maybe should) become "look, that hardware is old, you will have to miss on this and this... BUT if you ever upgrade, DLCs go with you and you unlock their full potential"
Unreal Engine 5 TSW is not happening. None of the existing DLC would be compatible, nor would it be able to be made compatible without being recreated completely
Umm no the new Spiderman is exclusive to the PS5, not coming out for the PS4 and there are more.
So again know your facts before you post people stop making things up. This is my last post here because I'm tired of all these made up facts and crap that is posted here anyways. Just like the streams and articles you can't trust anything that is written I'm stepping away.
And they already make different versions for PS4 and PS5, with the PS4 missing some of the features of the PS5 system.
So why could you not see them making Steam exclusive to the newer ones. They already have a opening to do that.
And Steam is still only in the discussion phase hence why we haven't seen articles on it for such a long time. So we will be lucky if that is the next summer update. Its still at least an year away.
But either way the last 6 months have been so full of bull that I just don't care about any news on this broken game anyways.
I would never say never. That would definitely be holding themselves back in the long term.
At the very least, if they don't make use of the latest technology someone else will.
Even though they have said they will NOT be the first to use UE5 and that they wouldn't even be thinking of upgrading for at least a couple of years.
You know what they said on the last stream on Tuesday and 10 other ones since Feb.
In fact they said it would be foolish to even think about it until a UE5.16 would come out.
Wow where are all these posts coming from that is 3 in the last 2 days that are telling people complete bull.
Ok seriously I really need to stop reading these forums. I think I may have an addiction. I'm gonna try again not to read them lets see if I make it more than a couple of hours.
At some point DTG are going to move on from TSW2, they will hit Unreal 4.26, and eventually Unreal 4 as whole's limits at some point and have to drop the current incarnation of TSW. I don't think it will be anytime soon if they have any common sense mind you, but it's silly to say that DTG are never gonna do something with Unreal 5 when they actively admit they're experimenting with it.
From what I know no Spider Man title's confirmed as a exclusive for PS5, there's a remaster of the original, and Miles Morales was for both 4 & 5. However no new Spider Man exclusive for PS5 is confirmed at this point, there's some speculation that such a title exists internally, but that's all at this point, so who knows when that's coming at this point.
I will say "Sony aren't even ready to make true exclusives for their next gen consoles." wasn't quite right, there are a handful of titles which are on it. However they have reduced the importance of PS5 in their immediate future, as both God of War: Ragnarok and Gran Turismo 7 have since been delayed and are being brought to both platforms. Sony for one reason or another don't think it's worth making those PS5 only titles at the moment, so Sony clearly think PS4 sales are gonna be very healthy till then and don't want to drop it yet. Compare that to how Nintendo handled their shift from Wii U to Switch where they completely killed first party development for the former once the latter came out and I think you'll see my point. Sony aren't ready to make the jump to PS5 quite yet, they want to support that platform with their biggest titles through at least next year. So third parties are gonna follow suit until then at least, if not later in a number of cases like they did from the transition from PS3 to PS4.
You used a several month old article that listed God of War and Gran Turismo as exclusive when they're not at this point. And I have no clue what you're talking about when it comes to a exclusive Spider Man game on PS5. Telling people to get their facts straight only works if you put in the effort that you claim others haven't, and frankly it doesn't seem you have in this case.
Then just leave, I've seen people go on tirades about how they leave before, and calling everyone liars is a consistent way of getting mocked and ridiculed on basically any forum. This is a case where I'd say "if you can't say something nice just say nothing at all" is great advice.
Because DTG have made it very clear they have want content to support every platform possible, and that's been the case since they've brought TSW to console. This on top of the fact that PS4 & Xbox One are getting titles released on them till at least 2022, likely way longer based on how previous gens have been. I do not expect them to even consider dropping TSW2 on PS4 or Xbox One till 2024, since I believe both platforms will have very active user bases till then at least.
No it's not, they've mentioned they were prototyping it months ago, which shows it's in active development at this point. Knowing how DTG's development time is based on the roadmap Summer 2022 would be a more than reasonable time span to expect it.
Again, "if you can't say something nice just say nothing at all" I feel is the line you should be taking here, because this ain't making you look good man.
But there's no reason a TSW3 couldn't happen in three or four years when Unreal 5's fully finished, that's the point we're making here. Also if you think DTG are complete liars then why take their word for it on this? You clearly don't trust them, so why are you using their words to defend your point here?
Oh my word, I'm so sorry to everyone for how long this is, it didn't seem that long when I was writing it.
Okay, I don't know if I caught you at a bad time but I feel like you've somewhat misinterpreted my point here.
I did not say they would be first and I did not say they would use the first release version of Unreal 5.
All I meant, is that I consider it in their interest to adopt a version of Unreal 5 at some point.
That is why I said never say never.
I most certainly am not suggesting they are going to come out with an Unreal 5 version of TSW as soon as physically possible.
I do not think Unreal 5 is happening. With all the Graphics on it, running at 144p would kill a last gen console and lower powered PC's.
Heck, even a Next Gen would probably struggle with how badly TSW is optimized
Separate names with a comma.