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Roadmap Update - 26th January 2021

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Jan 26, 2021.

  1. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I think sometimes people forget that they aren't dealing with Bethesda or Ubisoft, but a tiny company with ~100 employees including the secretaries, bookkeeper and charwoman. If TSW scrolled credits at the end, it would not go on for 45 minutes like a Rockstar game's. You may have noticed that yesterday's roadmap has some 140-150 items: that's roughly two for every developer.

    The LIRR is "unplayable" because the M7 sounds wrong? No, it means that having the wrong sound annoys the tiny subset of players who know what an M7 sounds like, and care. That is not "unplayable." And what if DTG had delayed the release of LIRR (and several German routes) until the sound-codec issues with the Preserved Collection port had been sorted? Would not the exact same people be screaming that they want "their" DLC right NOW?
     
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  2. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    At the risk of being burned at the stake, isn't the criticism of this route a tad over done. I mean what I've heard is about missing fencing and inaccurately colored ballast, game breaking for some, but surely not for most of us.The silence of the train will certainly be corrected by its release date. I'm not a fan of subterranean routes myself but I might buy this one just for the working grade crossings, the flowing river and that really quite beautiful cab.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
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  3. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    That discussion has been had and is over, at least until DTG do a second preview.

    No point in dredging the opinions on the thread back up, just as there's no point in criticizing the route further.
     
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  4. grdaniel48

    grdaniel48 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting last Roadmap, despite Is mostly an update of previous ones, with no so much differences on content itself.
    Good about lot of fixes coming
    Strange about the 465 being so close to the route, as mentioned here.

    But what surprised me, is that BR 187 will be for a short route, when this is a mainline freight locomotive and deserve a larger one to enjoy it
    Similar situation for DB101 which I would prefer for other larger german routes like Koln Aachen or Munich - Augsburg.
    It is strange also considering this last german route, seems not being selling well, due to there were 2 sales discounts close to the launch - which did not happened on other ones - , and to add these extra locomotives, could help to get more sales.

    So finally these are really bad news for me, because I was very interested on purchasing both locomotives, but as I do not have any of the required routes, of course I will not purchase them just in order to have these locomotives.
     
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  5. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    There’s the possibility the 187 could substitute onto other routes, we need to wait and see, but I too am feeling a little uneasy about the prospects of it, as I really want this loco.
     
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  6. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The IC doesn't run Koln-Aachen.
     
  7. Panzerkeks85

    Panzerkeks85 New Member

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    This is nice and all but seriously, fix the sound pls! Half of the game is unplayable! It's ridicilous!
     
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  8. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    So having no sound on a train at all is not unplayable now like the m7? If a train has no sound when it should, of course it's gonna make it unplayable unless some players don't care
     
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  9. imstylinonyabro

    imstylinonyabro New Member

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    Question. I've done a lot of reading through a Cement Circle thread about a red light bug. In said thread, Sam (with being new, I presume is DTG Protagonist) confirmed a fix was coming for TSW 2020 (as one of two final fixes for scenarios), as well as TSW2. On the roadmap for September 29, this issue is listed as being fixed. However, the TSW2020 current patch is still 1.46, which was released before TSW2, and this glitch still persists. Why has this been removed from the roadmap?
     
  10. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah no sound or buggy sound completely ruins an experience.
     
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  11. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    There is no fix coming to TSW2020 only content on TSW2 will receive patches.
     
  12. imstylinonyabro

    imstylinonyabro New Member

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    According to this, a 2020 fix was planned. We should be able to actually finish content we paid for.

     
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  13. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    That is interesting then I never saw that post, I hope all holds true and a fix for TSW2020 does come then.
     
  14. Louis-MTA NYCTA

    Louis-MTA NYCTA Well-Known Member

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    It does slightly irritate me to see that it has been 6 months since TSW 2 has been released (Aug 20th 2020) and the LIRR still has issues.
    The LIRR which is still one of the most popular routes 2+ years after it has been released still has very noticeable sound and gameplay issues on TSW 2. I understand it was not built for TSW 2 and bugs may occur, but fixing this should have been done already.
    The M7 has a sound issue where the propulsion only works in the first pair and last pairs of the EMU.
    The M3 has sound issues with the car passing in between and cutting out.
    The ATC and ACSES still are mostly broken. Many textures also sometimes fail to load creating endless voids in the game.
    Not to mention the horrible looping sound issues found on almost all preserved collection trains including the M7/M3

    Not trying to be annoying or picking out on anything. But this should have been fixed already. I understand issues and bugs occur but usually they should be fixed via a hotfix or patch in the future. Just pointing it out. I understand it's on the roadmap. But it has been 6 months since LIRR has been released with these sound updates not fixed yet.

    Sorry it this sounds like me rambling or making unnecessary "Noise". I did NOT intend this to come out like that.
     
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  15. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    No. Unplayable means literally that: the game crashes or is otherwise bugged to the point one cannot complete a service (like the Bakerloo throttle). "Not up to my refined standards, so I won't deign to play it" is not unplayable, it's simply that you choose not to play, and then use a hyperbolic term about it.
     
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  16. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    As Sam and Adam discussed in the stream yesterday, distorted sound is a system-wide core problem, not something that can be tweaked for individual trains.
     
  17. Bryer

    Bryer Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure ACSES hasn't been in the game, unless I'm missing where to enable it. Thinking about it I've never been able to enable it on the M7, never tried on the M3.
     
  18. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Have not found a locomotive or route that is “unplayable” in over 500 hours of time in the simulation.
     
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  19. mlouie100

    mlouie100 Well-Known Member

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    I know in the previous Road Maps that they mentioned that they will add the PIS system to the Long Island Railroad DLC. Just Wondering why the information was removed from this updated road map.
     
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  20. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    There are instances where the sound of the m7 cuts out in the front pair of the train. It makes the train unplayable with the sound issues unless you don't care and play with the m7 all the time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2021
  21. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    They have to basically redesign the pis for lirr since it's not the same as the ones in the u.k and Germany
     
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  22. Louis-MTA NYCTA

    Louis-MTA NYCTA Well-Known Member

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    Like solicitr has stated above it might be annoying but saying it is "Unplayable" is just wrong word choice. The M7 is still playable just has sound issues. Saying it's unplayable refers to a game-breaking issue like crashes or being unable to complete a service, or you cannot even operate the train. While I do agree it is annoying hearing the M7 propulsion broken like that, the train still functions fine, albeit with problematic ATC.

    But the M7 still functions as intended based on my experience with it. The sound issue does break immersion, YES!. But it's not unplayable because of this.


    Stating as you said above that it makes the M7 "Unplayable" is wrong. Not trying to catch or pick on you but please don't say something is "Unplayable" unless it actually falls in that context. Let's move on from this. Nitpicking about the LIRR's sound issues is not really going to do justice.
    ~Have a great night everyone.
     
  23. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    No route or train may be completely unplayable but there is a lot of content that can’t be played for one reason or another. There are also plenty of trains that are not currently enjoyable to play because of the sound or traction issues or a combination of both. There are many ‘Journeys’ that can’t be followed and currently there are several tutorials that can’t be completed. There is a fair bit I would describe myself as unplayable.

    The scenario planner is completely unfit for purpose at the moment, with nearly every scenario I have made having one or more issues. There certainly is no way of planning a decent scenario with it. It often can’t handle the interaction between one player train and one AI train, even if I do get to drive the train I actually chose. If I reported every issue I had with that particular unplayable part of the game on the forum, I wouldn’t have time for anything else. As it is, I don’t bother reporting any bugs on it because the one I did report is still languishing somewhere on the roadmap with some other things I’ve reported months ago. Some things haven’t even made it to the roadmap after several months, so I really have to care about something to report it these days.
     
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  24. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I must be one of the few who have no clue what's wrong with the M7. I'm enjoying it just fine. I have no clue how the real thing sounds, but it sounds like an EMU.

    I've had worse experiences with the sounds of German locomotives, to the point where they don't even sound like a locomotive anymore. Although I really have little clue how these particular locos sound in real life. BR155 sound extremely silent though, for such a heavy freight locomotive.

    I never really understood why the M7 was the priority on the sound fixing issue, but apparently lots of people have noticed something I haven't noticed. I'm curious to hear what it'll sound like once they fixed it. Until then, I can confirm the M7 is not unplayable because I just played with it. :P
     
  25. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    But much much more software (probably more complex than a golf sim) has bugs, including every version of windows, office, iOS, Androis, exchange... The list is infinite
     
  26. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    There are only so many locos you can put on Ruhr Sieg Nord.

    Rhein Ruhr Osten is the only other german freight route which offers the possibility of doing something more than just A to B runs, but right now is awfully underutilised.

    There is a huge intermodal siding which as far as I'm aware is not functional and not used, except for some trains that stop there. And there is also Hagen sidings as well.

    Hopefully the BR187 and the G6 will add a lot of freight traffic and diverse services to the route, and I'm sure the 187 will substitute all freight locos like the 155 and the 182.

    c7f0b6dc-a0c0-4544-be05-0997dabcef43.jpeg b03c1e70-5f61-4a27-9c21-0c3752d6a4f2.jpeg 7b77cd63-8140-42af-8a5a-0685fa03aeff.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2021
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  27. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I sure hope so. :)
     
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  28. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I guess you don't go to free roam and when you come back inside the sound doesn't cut out for you or since you probably don't notice them, you wouldn't really care
     
  29. Class156

    Class156 Member

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    Glad that the community fears have been taken on board and improvements are to be made to SEHS. I'll be honest, it is a day one purchase on PS4 for me regardless, I just hope it's playable from day one!
     
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  30. djcwey

    djcwey Well-Known Member

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    I was disappointed when the BR Class 20 DLC was released that the PGA hoppers were only available in timetable mode between Eaglescliffe and Tees Yard (not as in real life as far as Redcar Mineral terminal). When GWE was upgraded to 'Preserved Collection' I thought it made the BR Class 52 'Western' a worthwhile purchase and now for the 1970s BR blue pack DTG are remodeling the Class 52. If the effort is being put into remodelling something that already exists why not model something new? So that has been another disappointment.
     
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  31. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    By that logic why remodel a house if you could just put that effort into building a new one?

    Remodeling doesn't mean building from scratch, it means changing it in someway. Things like adding nameplates and making some parts of the model more accurate would count. That doesn't need a completely new model from the ground up to do.
     
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  32. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    The 52 was a fairly early model too, I think it’s a good idea going back to older content and giving them a touch up.
     
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  33. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    I'm not American, I have no clue what the M3/M7 are supposed to sound like, however I find both unplayable due to the total absence of sound. The M7 was ok in TSW2020 (M3 was still incredibly poor), but this has become broken in the "preservation". The fact the sounds get even quieter when the window is open only serves to show how badly the sound is set up.

    It depends your definition of unplayable. If you go with it to mean the train won't move, then I agree with you. If it's a case that the bugs detract so much that you can't bare to play it, then LIRR fits into this category for me.
     
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  34. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Puts on broken record
    "The preserved collection was brought over 'as is' and will be fixed by Adam and the team once all content has been brought over"
     
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  35. aaron1807

    aaron1807 Member

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    I would like to see the train destination display boards working to allow for all the correct locations to choose from. On SKA the 422 doesn't have the correct destinations to choose for the S-bahn routes, unless I'm just being blind. Hopefully this is something they add in the near future, but understandably it's not the biggest issue so I can wait, just slightly immersion breaking to display not in service.
     
  36. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Personal decision not to use the route on your part — not unplayable — I do not like chess, but that does not make chess unplayable
     
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  37. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Yesterday I did a journey with the DB BR146. It sounds like some giant mosquito. Sure it's not unplayable, but one could argue it's enjoyable. (And if a game can't be enjoyed, is it still fullfilling its purpose?). It's certainly the reason I don't play Main Spessart Bahn as much as I used to.

    As for unplayable, considering I still have troubles with setting up those damned CSX engines, I'd nominate those as 'unplayable'.
     
  38. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    CSX MU setups work in-game, you just have to know what the setup is. That's no more a matter of "unplayability" than not understanding PzB.
     
  39. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Except that PZB is entirely optional, because DTG knows such a complex system will not be enjoyed by everyone. CSX MU setups are not optional. Either way, it wasn't my intention to derail this topic in another of those CSX MU setup discussions.

    Lets just conclude that there'd be different interpretations of "unplayable". To me, the LIRR M7 is definately more playable than these CSX engines.
     
  40. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    I'd have been happy if the M7 was preserved as it was in TSW2020. Sadly not the case.

    If you liked chess, but didn't like to use a certain chess set due to the pieces falling over and therefore spoiling the game, then I'd say that's an unplayable chess set. A football pitch is described as unplayable if there has been heavy rain. The pitch infact can be used to play a game, but would ruin it in the process, so once again it's a choice not to use it.
     
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  41. michael hooley

    michael hooley Well-Known Member

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    The suggestion that something has to be unplayable before it becomes unsatisfactory to the customer is ridiculous.

    Mike
     
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  42. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Played on plenty of muddy Rugby pitches :). - but as you stated - it is a choice not to play — not that it can’t be played so we are in agreement :-0

    Being dissatisfied is a totally different situation - Yes - you can be dissatisfied with a product and decided not to use it, but it doesn’t make the product unusable to everyone . And I applaud choice - so if one doesn’t like a route or DLC - so state the dis-satisfaction - but don’t proclaim to the world it is “unplayable” for the masses
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2021
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  43. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    They didn't say as was, they said as is. Different thing, but the salient point is that they've said all along they'll fix it afterwards, hence it being on the roadmap.
     
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  44. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    There's a rather high amount of mental gymnastics being performed on both sides over what is, essentially, a broken product.

    Regardless if it's technically playable, it doesn't work as it should, and therefore should be prioritised as a fix.

    The issue really is that DTG have an ever increasing list of things to fix, and while new content is being released in precarious states, the list doesn't get worked on perhaps quite as quickly as it should.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2021
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  45. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The wrong sound is "broken"? I'd put that down with "wrong color ballast" and well below "shadow pop-in" on the list of things that detract from enjoyment.

    I personally do not find LIRR enjoyable so I don't open it much: but that's because I personally don't care for commuter rail or urban settings. I find most of these aesthetic complaints similar matters of personal taste, elevated into Demands that DTG Must Fix, Or Else people will want to speak to the manager....
     
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  46. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, if DTG say it is one thing, and it isn't, then it should be resolved, just because the sound may/ballast/fence etc is wrong in the first place, it doesn't make that item ineligible for a fix.

    Also if we all took on the attitude of 'I don't like it so don't think it should be fixed', then nothing would ever be fixed.
     
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  47. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I may not have been clear. The argument has been advanced that LIRR is "unplayable" or "broken" because the M7 sound makes the route not enjoyable for certain players. I was pointing out that what makes a route not enjoyable is a personal matter, not an urgent repair ticket.

    Again, DTG has at most 75 programmers, and not all of them work on TSW (some do planes or fish). There are some 150 items on the roadmap, and probably at least double that that aren't but which people on the forums have raised. There are maybe 50-60 man-hours per week per programmer. Please do the math, and then come up with a prioritized list of the order in which issues should be tackled. On my list, at least, "wrong sound" and "wrong color ballast" would be numbered in the high 300s.
     
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  48. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Not all of them work on the core program, given the way Matt and Sam talk about the programming team there are specialists in various fields within the game so whilst they may have "75 people who can program" we know that they only have ONE character artist to cover all their titles, so that's one person who designs and implements the look of people in at least three games.

    If there's only (let's say) four sound engineers, and one of those is in Adam's team then that means there's only three people who work on sound in the remainder of the catalogue.
     
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  49. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    While I agree that DTG certainly have a lot on their plate for the amount of dev time they can realistically put into the game, there are a lot of issues that come into the live build that are realistically avoidable, it seems strange that all the sound issues aren't picked up pre-release, now they've ended up in a place where all the preserved content is now having to be looked at again.
     
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  50. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    Oh how I wish the sound was the only issue with LIRR.

    But sound is an important thing for a number of users, and I'd bet an awful lot more people than your other examples.
     
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