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Roadmap Update - 9th February 2021

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Feb 9, 2021.

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  1. L0-Cache

    L0-Cache New Member

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    I really hope that LIRR will be scaled up in TSW 2 as well....
    The current map doesn't even begin to use the full network.
     
  2. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    Lirr Update Tomorrow?
     
  3. SprattyHeath

    SprattyHeath Well-Known Member

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    Im sorry, but regardless of if the roadmap is being improved, releasing just several patch notes of LIRR and ignoring everything else is borderline wrong. Even if we are to get a new roadmap in two weeks time with a newer layout you should still include everything else from January's roadmap REGARDLESS of whether it's unreliable or not.
     
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  4. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    PEOPLE, keep calm for a second please. DTG is trying to improve the roadmap, which I personnally do support. Maybe the way it started is not the best, but there is no point in renting about it or saying things like "worst roadmap ever". A bit more constructive feedback would be nice and in a more civilized tone as well. I am also massively dissappointed, but a reaction like this is not good, and will not help DTG to open up but rather shut down more. Throwback to first SEH stream, this is a trend I do not appreciate!!
     
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  5. OnlyMe1909

    OnlyMe1909 Well-Known Member

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    What the F... is this ????

    I'm sorry, but I'm done guys. I'm just gonna play when I feel like it (which is a lot less lately). I'm done with trying to stay informed about what's going on in this game. I'll see it, when I see it. Input in these forums and tyring to participate in the stream chats is just too much effort as apposed to what we get back. This 'Roadmap' (if it's even worthy of the name) is the finale drop.
     
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  6. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    Count me as also unhappy. Please release old format until new one is finalised. Lazy approach DTG, should know better by now.
     
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  7. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but your point is utter rubbish!

    So because a company does something that, as it appears many people are unhappy with, we shouldn't take them to task about it, or question them on it because someone, somewhere may be ill or hungry!
     
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  8. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    To me it seems roadmaps have been getting less accurate not because of the format, but because internal communication within DTG between the TSW teams is really poor, and I wouldn't be surprised if there was no one putting their foot down working to fix those issues and create accountability. Instead, Sam and his team are being asked to re-design the Roadmap to accommodate that internal disfunction.
     
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  9. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    You can come back to the fourm and ask a question and hopefully any question you have will get a answer like Nat said
     
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  10. patput

    patput New Member

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    Aren't we jumping the gun a bit here, folks? The article itself states that the new roadmap format is being worked on, and as a result a truncated set of information was included in the article. Would I love to have seen a broader selection of information? Of course. Should folks be pulling out the pitchforks claiming the new format is bad before they have even seen the new format? Absolutely not.

    I agree, more information this time around (or at least a heads up that the information about what is in-flight would be minimal) would have been great. I think it is a little absurd that some folks are so up in arms without even knowing what the new roadmap format is going to be. I think it is worth at least waiting to see what the new format is before causing an uproar.
     
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  11. Jeannot41

    Jeannot41 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for posting these roadmaps on the site, because videos are good, but not for someone who doesn't speak English, not easy to understand.
    When they are written, I can pass them in Google translate.
    Thank you
     
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  12. Coppo

    Coppo Well-Known Member

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    What has been published today is not a roadmap. Whilst a road map is defined as "a plan or strategy intended to achieve a particular goal." what has been presented is a list of tasks that are assigned to one team for one route, without any target dates. It is neither plan nor strategy.
    The previous iteration provided clarity on a planned delivery order. Moreover it gave the opportunity to see what issues could/ would not be worked on. This provided a level of transparency for the reader that stimulated questions for the forthcoming stream.
    It is nice to see that tasks that you want to work on for LIRR - a route that I have - but personally I find it a "meh" route, and I seldom play it. So this particular update is of no value to me.
     
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  13. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    They have said they are changing it, they haven't taken their ball home to burst it. If they had said there would be no more roadmaps I would agree but they haven't.

    The reaction is over the top and aggressive, and yes I think some perspective is needed, I think there are some who just want an excuse to create a fuss.
     
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  14. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    So basically we have to ask questions instead of DTG being transparent and just creating a list (perhaps even call it a roadmap) of the bug fixes for SEHS?
     
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  15. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Exactly so many have missed the point of the article, some deliberately I suspect!
     
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  16. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    However they have stated that they'll be removing the nice list of bug fixes that they'll supposedly be working on. That's definitely a step backwards, as the list they started doing in January was a huge step forwards.
     
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  17. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Well they obviously have a reason to feel it wasn't successful. They will still be fixing bugs!
     
  18. seancrabtree2003

    seancrabtree2003 Member

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    Clearly this weeks roadmap is a failure on dtg end. It is clear from the comments above and what I spend 5 mins reading on the useless road map is we not getting really and update this week. Yes we been told about sehs in stream . But as people above not everyone can watch a stream and I through the roadmap was to help us out not hindering us this week. This feels a big let down on team and feel like we have gone backwards and tonight's stream will be very awkward.
     
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  19. Alex_m30x#7297

    Alex_m30x#7297 Well-Known Member

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    not desperate, not game breaking, you can deal with them or turn them off
     
  20. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    At the very least, in lieu of a proper roadmap, DTG could have given us a quick list of what they expect to actually release between now and Feb 23. Patches for which routes (besides LIRR)? Is Arosa about to drop? What about the 465, hinted last time to be imminent?
     
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  21. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    It's only temporary as they are restructuring the roadmap. There's no need to lose all hope. The LIRR needed major fixes
     
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  22. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    Not for you perhaps, but for others it is.
     
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  23. SprattyHeath

    SprattyHeath Well-Known Member

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    The last we actually know about the 465 is the achievements that were added for it on SteamDB
     
  24. heyitspopcorn

    heyitspopcorn Well-Known Member

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    So, what does this mean? Instead of "{LIRR} Add Passenger Information Screens" and "{ECW} Add Passenger Information Screens", we will just get "Add Passenger Information Screens"? If so, what is the point of that? Wouldn't it eventually have to be separated out by route anyway, as not every preserved route would receive the update at the same time?

    So what constitutes an 'individual improvement'? Going back to the Passenger Information Screens and Passenger Spawning/Behavior examples above: does that mean that we won't know what specific route(s) is/are receiving Passenger Information Screens until it shows up in a patch? If so, that seems like an absolutely massive step backwards, as the point of the roadmap was to let us know exactly what was being worked on, and to cull speculation -- and potential disappointment -- of what could be being worked on.

    If the intent is to try out a new method of roadmap, where you're NOT listing individual fixes, then why on earth is the roadmap today just a list of individual fixes for LIRR? Even if you aren't ready to fully roll out the new roadmap format, this still would have been an excellent opportunity to say, "Here's what the old roadmap would have looked like [and here's the list of individual fixes for LIRR], and here's how we could represent it in Roadmap 2.0..."
     
  25. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    Except we are back to square one about knowing if a particular bug is being looked at or not. Sometimes it's reassuring to know that a bug is on the list (especially if it's one that really impacts your personal experience)
     
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  26. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    SEHS came out last week. LIRR has been out for 5 months. Yes SEHS does need fixes but lirr has had major immersion breaking bugs for 5 months which are far far worse then sehs. Now you may not play lirr but I wouldn't mind a little wait for the issues on sehs to be resolved so they can fix lirr because I haven't played it when it camed out because of several issues and I love lirr
     
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  27. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    DTG seems quite adapt at creating a fuss without any help from anyone else.

    They have said they are working on a new format, but as I asked why did that have to wait until the usual roadmap release time. What was wrong with, in their claimed spirit of openness and transparency, letting people know once the decision had been made?
     
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  28. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    They should of just not published this 'roadmap' and instead of made it clear earlier that there would be no roadmap, people who come to the forum just to view the roadmap simply see "Roadmap Update - 9th February" and assume business as usual, instead you read through an article that gives you a convoluted explanation which ultimately tells you that the roadmap article isn't actually the roadmap, it's understandable that people are left with a bad taste in their mouth.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2021
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  29. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I do agree that maybe a heads up would have been better instead of waiting till the last minute. We would've had less of a fuss
     
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  30. Alex_m30x#7297

    Alex_m30x#7297 Well-Known Member

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    bit more than 5 months lol
     
  31. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    It was an estimated guess. I've would've said 6 lol
     
  32. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Well, skipping through the replies here, I take it a lot of people only read the list and not all the joined up sentences before it...

    So, no roadmap this week, while they redesign it. Looks like we will be saying goodbye to the list of pending fixes if fixes aren’t in a patch, which I don’t think will be a good move, but we’ll see. It has been hard to track things through the roadmap, but I feel it was an issue with patch notes more than the roadmap. I don’t understand people getting angry about this change though, even if it is disappointing. If DTG wanted they could go back to telling us nothing. I’ll reserve full judgement until they have come up with the new roadmap.
     
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  33. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    That's a very good point, Longo: why couldn't Natalie have announced yesterday "We are very sorry, but because we are revamping the Roadmap format we won't be releasing one tomorrow"? A hell of a lot better than launching the expected Roadmap thread this morning, only to have it say "Out Of Service."
     
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  34. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    Well, i'll add my disappointment to the list.

    Not so much that the roadmap is delayed (stuff happens), but that increasingly the most important info about TSW is provided via streams.

    I just don't have the inclination/time to sit through 2 hours of video to find the info i could read about in 5 minutes if it was posted on the forum.

    LIRR fixes are welcome, though- maybe we'll get some more traffic on there at some point.
     
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  35. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    There would have been a lot less fuss.
     
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  36. Thorman

    Thorman Member

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    DTG, you forgot to post the roadmap! Wait a minute...
     
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  37. burgerpommes#7421

    burgerpommes#7421 New Member

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  38. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    LIRR could indeed use some more services. They should've added the correct timetable for both branches in the start
     
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  39. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Dovetail Special Projects Staff Member

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    When putting this week's update together we had expected that it would cause some discussion, but hadn't expected the feedback you've given. It seems that in explaining what's happening the key points have been lost in translation. In an attempt to correct this here, using as few words as possible, is what's happening.

    1. The roadmap as it was had become unreliable and inaccurate. This is the opposite of what we wanted.

    2. Bug fixes, particularly, are very hard to report in the old roadmap format because they move too quickly.

    3. Patch notes are the better place for bug fixes.

    4. The roadmap is better used to describe larger projects. This will include bug fixes but they will be grouped together as projects.

    5. The LIRR list is an example both of new items that we're working on, and the level of granularity that may prove to be inaccurate.

    6. The last proper roadmap update is still accurate.


    The reason we've not provided a full roadmap update this week is because it's going to take the next couple of weeks to pull it together. Due to multiple teams working on different projects we have to co-ordinate documentation that feeds into the published roadmap. It may appear to only be a couple of paragraphs and a list each week but it involves 6 people cross-checking information and that number is increasing rapidly.

    It has not been serving its purpose: to give you accurate, reliable information about what is being worked on. We are therefore going to take the time to ensure that it is correct.

    Apologies to those who mistakenly took this to mean we were going radio-slient again. That is not the case.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2021
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  40. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Well-Known Member

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    So going off this, we won't be getting the 465 within the next 2 weeks? That's not what it sounded like last roadmap
     
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  41. SprattyHeath

    SprattyHeath Well-Known Member

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    It's ready, when it's ready.
     
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  42. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Well-Known Member

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    *looks at SEHS* uhm sure
     
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  43. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    As long as we get the same amount of info, it's good, but you need to make sure the patch notes are correct. The last one are still missing various fixes, present on the roadmap.
     
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  44. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    "It's ready when we hit our publishing deadline" might be more accurate...
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2021
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  45. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. I understood it when I first read the roadmap it but clearly some didn't which is understandable. Maybe a heads up probably wouldn't have created all this fuss or maybe it could've been named "Roadmap Update, LIRR Bug Fixes Only"
     
  46. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    I hate it when people say this on this forum. With DTG it's hardly ever ready when it's ready.
     
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  47. Luke8899

    Luke8899 Well-Known Member

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    Lol.

    People: I hate you DTG and your awful roadmap.

    Also people: Hey?! Where's our awful roadmap this week?! I hate you DTG!
     
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  48. GuitarMan

    GuitarMan Well-Known Member

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    Thanks DTG Protagonist i see the positives in this both in how you explained it and in the article. I have watched the streams and seen the awkwardness with which inaccuracies have had to be handled (or when you are provided with something not on the map that should be by your co host mid stream).

    more accuracy and a redesign can only be a positive thing.
     
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  49. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Ehh that's not always the case
     
  50. KyleL

    KyleL Well-Known Member

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    4xch61.jpg
    This is how I feel right now, I did like the original roadmap format. Don't get me wrong I do appreciate Sams reply.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2021
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