Route Extensions

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by anthony.norman2005, Nov 28, 2020.

  1. anthony.norman2005

    anthony.norman2005 Member

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    Personally, I think it would be a great idea to expand certain routes that feel quite limited, for example, adding the west coast for the east coast way or adding further stations past Eastbourne, I think it would bring a lot more enjoyment to each route and stop people getting bored as it feels quite limited at the moment. Maybe adding news trains to routes could make it more enjoyable as well. For example the class 313 on the east coast way as it is more fitting due to the fact that only class 313s actually go to seaford not the 377s.
     
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  2. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Yes, extending routes we have already would be great, perhaps they should have a dedicated route extensions team?
     
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  3. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I think dtg should have a dedicated route extensions team espicially since the demand for route extensions is so high
     
  4. anthony.norman2005

    anthony.norman2005 Member

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    Yh same, I think it would be a great thing for then to do because then I think that more people would buy DLC and people would get bored less. It seems like a great idea to me, I don't know why they haven't already started this in TSW 2020
     
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  5. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Their excuse is that they want to make more content hence why they don't want to do extensions. But if they had a dedicated team extending routes then they could do both. It does get boring when you finish a route because you want to go further and it would make it more enjoyable if you could go further
     
  6. Nidhish Inumala

    Nidhish Inumala Active Member

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    I think DTG is just reluctant to do it because they won't get money for the work (price it please if that means we will be able to get it)
     
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  7. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    I think the bigger problem's the limited market, any extension is gonna need the base route to work. Why put in all the effort to basically make a new route which is gonna be limited to those who own another route when you could use that same effort to make a brand new stand alone route?
    There's other factors like length to consider as well, routes like Peninsula Corridor, Northern Trans-Pennine, and Rapid Transit are already over a hour in length from end to end. A extension of those would likely push service lengths to over two hours, that's only gonna appeal to a small set of people, so I doubt it would be worth it for them considering the resources a route extension would take. Also with some routes like Rapid Transit it would be smarter to just add new locos as there's lots of unused trackage as is to place things like say freight services or maybe a variant of the ICE.
    Another thing would be popularity, as some routes just aren't very popular, for example the old NEC route, Oakville or indeed Rapid Transit. It doesn't make sense to add on to a route which people aren't already happy with, makes it less likely for them to purchase anything for it. Especially if it's for a route extension that's not only gonna cost more on the developer side of things, but likely on the consumer side as well.
     
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  8. 59321747

    59321747 Active Member

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    My personal view of the extension of the route is to interpret a complete route. The current route of DTG is only from point A to point B, and I want a complete route from point C or point D.
     
  9. 59321747

    59321747 Active Member

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    They only know the market's reaction when it is launched. They only evaluate or possibly. I think the best solution is to expand the DLC. If the response is as expected, it can continue to expand. If the price is 40 miles, the DTG can be advanced 40 miles, and it is better to extend the route to places with scenic views such as the "Rocky Mountains".
     
  10. kosti.nuuja

    kosti.nuuja Well-Known Member

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    But that's just a good thing, because train driver's duty can last even three hours.
     
  11. anthony.norman2005

    anthony.norman2005 Member

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    I agree, I think it would be a great idea. I don't know why they haven't done it to certain routes because obviously we have all the German routes and then we have added on locos to some DLCs, so why don't they go further and extend each route and stop making new DLCs or slow it down maybe?
     
  12. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    Yes some people do enjoy lone runs, but not everyone has the time or patience to be doing three hour runs, even a route like Peninsula Corridor's a tad long for some people's taste. I'd guess that's why you rarely see scenarios included in TS Classic that exceed two hours, even on routes like Marias Pass or Canadian Mountain Passes where you could make ones that easily go over four if you wanted. Mnd you I'm saying this as someone who regularly likes spending more than a hour on a single drive, but I know that doesn't appeal to everyone and is something to be considered. I think it makes more sense to extend some of the shorter routes, not ones that are already fairly long.
    They have done extensions for TS Classic though, so they do have some reference for how they preform. I'm sure they do well enough as they do the occasional one for TS Classic now and then, but I also don't think they preform overwhelmingly well considering they're still fairly rare.
     
  13. Tahar_bej

    Tahar_bej Member

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    For the long services dtg could set the timetable up so the service ends at the middle of the route (where the given route ends now) and the next service starts when the train departs from the station
     
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  14. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    The other considerations is how to handle scenarios and services. If they extend the route then people would end up with two versions of the same service in some instances.
    Take https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/X24068/2020-11-30/detailed for example. For those who DON'T own the extended route there would have to be a service made from Brighton to Eastbourne, but then there would be another exact same service but extended to Ore
    How do you handle the service records (ie medals) of those who had the original route, but then extend? Do they keep the medals but now have services which in essence either they can't run or terminate early?

    I mean I would love it if DTG allowed all route maps to be expandable, so instead of individual route maps you have one large franchise where add-ons expand the current system, but you will have people who scream and shout when their medals become meaningless or count for less than they did because they now have to do the same thing again but longer because the route's longer
     
  15. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    People would complain that this isn't how it works in real life...
     
  16. Tahar_bej

    Tahar_bej Member

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    You would arrive open the doors service ends you choose to continue the free roam and 2 minutes later you close the door and continue if you wish in my view it doesn’t affect the immersion
    Or dtg could improve the save function so it works and you can have multiple saved games (1 for every route.)
     
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  17. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Only two. NWC to Holyhead and the Sheerness line from Sittingbourne.
     
  18. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Rivet did several extensions to their Swiss route and charged extra for the work so have JT, why would you think DtG wouldn't otherwise?
    Also wasn't the Medway valley line an add-on to the Chatham line?
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2020
  19. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Standalone, although they did release it as an addition later on

    Because they haven't. I'm a pragmatist, so until I see it happening, it isn't happening
     
  20. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps a poll then? See what the interest is for it on these forums, won't be accurate of course but it would be an indicator of the desire for having extended routes.

    If market research votes in favour then any business would be foolish to ignore the demand?
     
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  21. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I could be annoying by saying that DTG are never going to do route extensions, but that’s the way it looks to me. Even if there seems to be a lot of demand for them there’s never going to be as much demand as there is for new routes. Demand equals potential sales and actual sales are a fraction of that. In a lot of cases the extensions people want are just to make an existing route longer, rather than an interesting branch line or such, with the feature being a longer end to end drive rather than an increase in interesting options for gameplay. Those extensions are the least likely to be made because they add very little extra gameplay and only offer a longer drive to the relatively small number of players that actually want that.

    DTG will know from routes like Peninsular Corridor, where there are services of differing lengths (of time), which ones get played more often, and what the standard length of time people play in one session is, from loading the game to exiting the game. I’d have an educated guess that the Baby Bullet services are played many more times than any other and that the time people spend playing is not much more than an hour or so. That’s your core audience, that’s where your sales come from, and that’s what development will be focused on. Not route extensions purely for longer distances.
     
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  22. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    I'm certain they've done more than that, Solder Summit & the TGV extension come immediately to mind, also know there was a German High Speed route extension as well. Those are DTG proper at least according to the store pages, even assuming they've had help from other companies they're still the main devs at any rate.
    But then what's the benefit of merging them? At that point they may as well be separate routes and have the advantage of being available to a wider audience
    I wouldn't go that far, I fully expect there will be a few expansions, hell the TGV's coming, and I can bet you that one of the main complains are gonna be that it's too short if TS Classic is anything to go by. If it does sell well I could easily see that be one of the first routes to get a extension, I could also see one of the ICE routes getting one. I just don't think every route warrants one, nor do I expect there to be a ton of them.
    Now this I completely agree with, and I think that's the problem with a lot of the requests. For example I've never been a fan of Gilroy being added to PC, with San Jose already being a good end point for the line and it being fairly complete in terms of rolling stock as is I don't really see the appeal. It has some single track sections which some find interesting out of the current line up of routes, but don't feel that would sell the average player alone. you could add another UP freight engine to try and diversify the line I guess. but I don't think that sell it either considering that freight ops aren't prominent in the area. Granted I don't think it would do terribly as long as it was done well, PC's a fairly popular route after all, but don't think it's worth the resources over making other extensions or new routes.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2020
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  23. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    Personally I don’t think there are going to be route extensions. There are several reasons including technical ones but one has to be what does the extension get you? I’ll use as an example GWE. Now given the iconic nature of the route and DTG’s UK audience an extension would make sense. The current route gets you to Reading. Doubling it in length I guess would get you to Swindon but it’s not going to get you to say Bristol which logically what you’d want. The same is going to be true of the TGV or ICE lines. Adding an extension might just get you to the next station down the route, but that’s it.

    i also think that DTG, because of the work and technical issues involved are going to steer clear of extending routes to major hubs. Imagine the work in modeling the TGV coming into Paris. Imagine East Coastway heading for Victoria or even the London suburbs. You might get to Croydon, but that doesn’t sound like a blockbuster to me.
     
  24. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    This is where I think the focus this year on high speed is going to create a lot of grumbling towards the end of next year?

    We are going to have "lots" of 40 mile A-B routes with a combination of passengers and maybe freight. Yes we can spend hours learning all the different safety features etc but ultimately its going to be ~20 minutes at full tilt to cover those 40 miles.

    If we look at the "original" game of GWE for example (the forgotten line) its the 35 miles with the option of fast, slow and freight but its there and back. There is no branch lines there is no deviation. The scenery is flat, the line is straight, its a non-event.

    Just what I always feel once the train pulls out of Reading when I have come up from London. By the time you've got your bag you are nearly there.

    Going longer on that route towards Bristol isnt going to be any more exciting. The route is flat, straight and fast. Yes it is longer, but will it be any more exciting? I very much doubt it.

    The TPL is similar a there and back, but at least it has hills and bends, its a short route, but as you never really get above 65mph for more than 2 minutes, it takes a long time, and trying to get the 1960's beasts up the hills makes for interesting fun. But as with GWE there is no deviation off the mainline.

    The TVL I believe is the closest route to the train sim "world" element of the sim. There are different sidings and destinations along the line and so with the different trains gives you differing routes, which makes it interesting.

    The east coast line gives us that one thing that is missing from the other games? The branch line! We have the mainline, but then there is the cheeky run down the branch with passengers or freight which gives the game a little variance.

    So going back to the beginning of my waffle my interpretation of everyones complaints is that they would like a C or D option on their A-B route? For DGT they have to work out the cost/benefit of adding 10 miles on to a DLC as either an extension or a branch to a) their bottom line and b) the game play.

    For ~£25 they will give us a new French line for us to get our heads around which will be fun for a few weeks, and then it will dawn on us that we have driven ~1000km at ~320km/h and we will all be itching to do something different looking for extensions or another train to do that very same line with?

    I have read on here over the last 12 months people asking for variation- heathrow express/branch lines/variation/extensions of "its only another x miles to y".

    DGT make a great emphasis in their intro to every line that we can ride as passengers. So I guess my suggestion would be why not try and make a "world"?

    Pick a station already in the sim- for example Brighton or Cologne or Paddington and make it a world. Maybe we have to buy 5 different extension packs of 5 different lines, but they all stem from the same station?

    So between Paddington and Reading for example there is :-
    Excluding the HE there is Henley, Marlow, Windsor, and I think Greenford? branch lines?

    Surely over the last 3 or so years they could have sold us for £15 extension packs to this line? The main bulk of it remains the same? It gives us the few miles of the variation and the potential changes? BUT I guess it comes back to layers, the more branches, the more AI trains needed and suddenly the game will crash? As coming in and out of Paddington would be overrun with trains? and a low FPS? Or you could wait till the end and then there is GWE Deluxe for £50?

    But we would then have got the full GWE "world" of that area?

    I am sure you all discuss these things on the Streams etc but its just an idea. Yes everyone is loving new rolling stock for line x y z

    But it was just my thoughts going through my head.

    D
     
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  25. Nidhish Inumala

    Nidhish Inumala Active Member

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    I think that what we would really need is more locos with the route(it's me, as I think that multiple routes have the potential for more)

    As for the Locos, GWE has a countless number (387, 165, 800/802, 57 for Night Riviera), and Köln-Aachen has- The 406, PBKA(Thalys), 146, 111, Talent 2, 425, 143, 644, 423 and Talent Series DMUs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne–Aachen_high-speed_railway#Passenger_services is where I got the information)
     
  26. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    The 800/802 were not there for GWR in 2015 when the line is set! Plus having more loco's and still doing the same 35 miles of line? Does that still interest you?

    Fair enough :)

    D
     
  27. Nidhish Inumala

    Nidhish Inumala Active Member

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    true point about the 800s- there is a North Pole Depot so I thought that we can utilise it
     
  28. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Suppose that services or sessions on one route could be optionally continued on another route? My limited knowledge of railroad geography comes into play here, so I'll try for a purely theoretical example. Let's imagine that DTG makes a freight/[passenger route that covers the western third of the "Hardy Line"; then, some time later, the central third becomes available as a separate DLC that includes some activities that are confined to this part 2 as well as others that begin in the new third but continue into the earlier third; later still, the eastern third appears, with activities ... well, you know. The second and third parts would include additional rolling stock; each third could be operated independently but those who bought more than one part would benefit from doing so.

    I'd certainly be interested in owning all three parts!
     
  29. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I believe it's the old Eurostar one
     
  30. tubefan1973

    tubefan1973 Well-Known Member

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    AND, of you took East Coastway for instance, you could do the cab swap (not sure if the scenario planner could handle this sort of A-C service yet TrainSim-Matt ) (which is a rarity in Normal Service mode without continuing your session) and, if you owned both halves of the route, you could have an option, either have the service in 2 halves (one to Eastbourne and the other to the terminuses) or have the service in one part (or maybe some of both) they could make the extensions come with more locos too (for East Coastway maybe a class 171 and a class 70?) as that could make it a standalone route too (called East Coastway: Hastings to Eastbourne, but make it blindly clear that this is NOT THE EAST COASTWAY TO BRIGHTON and Then have directions to the one from Brighton, you could also remedy this by making the main pictures of the terminues (so Brighton and Hastings)) so there a win-win you get a new route, but in a bundle for maybe £40:99 you could have both Brighton to Eastbourne and also Hastings to Eastbourne. If you already owned the first part BEFORE the release (and maybe 2 weeks after too) you could get a £4:99 discount?
     
  31. Alexandra

    Alexandra Active Member

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    Rhein Ruhr Osten and Ruhr Sieg Nord both terminate in Hagen and it's but a moment's interruption to change DLCs (and trains) to continue your journey. Both are great routes.
     
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  32. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that when dtg make a standalone route, they don't make the actual full line of the route and that's what's causing such a high demand for route extensions in the first place. For example the lirr route is part of the MTA Long Island Railroad Ronkonkoma branch which is a 48.5 mile route. Instead, we got only 24.8 miles from Penn Station to Hicksville and once you get to the end, players like me want to go further hence why there is such a high demand for extensions in the first place. Some players are happy with not getting non full line routes, and some like me would like to see a full line route. Some may argue that you may not get anymore enjoyment out of a route being extended but my problem with that is if people are not gonna get enjoyment out of a particular route being extended like gwr or lirr or others, then why would a lot of people want to see those particular routes extended. Presumably because they would get more enjoyment out of their favorite route extended. I believe if dtg were to make an extension, we would have to pay for it which is fine for me. Extensions are like a preference. You don't have to buy it if you already enjoy the standalone route. Just like how you don't have to buy a new dlc route or train that make. The only dlc that I'll be buying from the current roadmap is London To Faversham route and no dlc locomotives. If dtg were to make the full line of a route then people won't be asking for extensions so I really do hope that they either start making extensions because it's not technically impossible to do, or to start making full line routes
     
  33. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't want a route in parts. I don't think that would be popular then you would have some people asking for the two routes combined into one like how people are asing for Rhein Rhur Osten and Rhur Sieg Nord to be connected into one standalone route. I rather have a route extension. It's not impossible to do. Also if dtg were to make an extension to east coastway or for example, they wouldn't need to add additional services. They would just have to make the trains go to hastings and ore and allow us to do the return journey from Hastings or ore to Brighton. They wouldn't have to add any additional services if they extended any route at all to be honest.
     
  34. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    ‘Going longer on that route towards Bristol isnt going to be any more exciting. The route is flat, straight and fast. Yes it is longer, but will it be any more exciting? I very much doubt it.’

    So it’s exciting routes that people want? Like the train to Machu Picchu?
     
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  35. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Imagine if dtg actually made a route to Machu Picchu lol. Wanting a exiting route though is very subjective because a exiting route could mean many things
     
  36. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    The truth is that when putting TSW together DTG backed themselves into a corner over route length. The last UK product (not their finest hour I realize) was releasing WCML South on their old platform. The newer platform released IOW. Getting exciting on 30 mile routes is tough.
     
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  37. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The wcml on ts2021 was a mess. A third party probably would've done much better on wcml. Yes, it's hard to get exited on a 30 mile route. The tgv route is a route that I won't be getting personally because even though it will be the longest route in the game, a service can be done in 30 minutes with only a to b services because your doing speeds of 200mph which is way too short for a high speed route. (Not to mention the fact that the overhead wires are modeled unrealistically.) I would only buy that route if it's extended. I'll wait for London to Faversham instead. I do believe dtg did put themselves in a tight spot when it comes to route length for tsw2
     
  38. Nidhish Inumala

    Nidhish Inumala Active Member

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    Great Idea, however I think that lots of people would find it to be priced too much for what might well be thought of as the same thing, and some might find it confusing

    That is where we can have a prompt that says "Do you want to switch to (Selected DLC)"
     
  39. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    A prompt may be a good compromise although i would rather have rro and rsn connected
     
  40. Nidhish Inumala

    Nidhish Inumala Active Member

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    True, but we want to keep console compatibility (preferably without ten-minute wait times just to put two routes together)
     
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  41. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    With the next gen already out, they should be able to handle rro and rsn fully connected
     
  42. 59321747

    59321747 Active Member

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    I dare to pack a ticket DTG will definitely choose a section of the route for expansion. If they have been released with a 40-mile route, then I will lose patience and interest in one or two years.
     
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  43. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully they will soon
     
  44. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    That's not been the issue, issue's largely due to time and money, not anything technical, if there's any issues it be due to space before anything else.
    There is demand for them certainly, but the question really is if that demand is is enough than that of new routes. Some routes I do suspect will have lots of demand for route extensions, again the LGV I suspect will have lots of requests when that's out. But outside of the proposal to have a merge Ruhr Sieg Nord And Rhein-Ruhr Osten I don't see any super popular proposals of the current routes, and that's been given a no at least to this point. LIRR I don't really remember tons of people wanting a extension for it, the big thing people want's a busier timetable from what I remember. I do believe I've seen more proposals for GWR, and granted I'm sure that was request a lot more back when it launched, but the main thing people want are the 800s, which isn't possible on the current route. So personally I suspect if they end up doing anything with GWR it would include a updated and modernized version of the route and have the 800s. Kind of like how routes like Portsmouth Direct Line got extended and rereleased as new routes instead of extensions. Granted depending on how broad your definition is that certainly would count for a lot of people.
     
  45. Nidhish Inumala

    Nidhish Inumala Active Member

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    I meant for people with PS4 and XB1 but yes if there will be no more support later on for them then it is a viable and good option (same for having full line routes)
     
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  46. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The ps4 and xb1 will most likely die off by the end of 2021 start of 2022
     
  47. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    It would be cool to get a modernized version of great western express
     
  48. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    There never was a limit on consoles with regards to route length as the routes load in tiles, so the only things in memory are the bits you're looking at, just looked at or just about to look at
    The bigger issue on consoles is consists and other assets, so long trains, loads of stuff in sidings etc.
    DTG have always said that the dev cycle for routes is determined by how complex the route is and their internal deadlines rather than the hardware and I see no reason not to believe them
     
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  49. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    PAD to RDG is as boring now as it was then... Extend off it to other places and give more service variety rather than replacing the HST with IET and the 166 for the lizzy line trains, because that would be the only differences
     
  50. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    For me it wouldn't be boring
     
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