Route Limits In Tsw2????

Discussion in 'Train Sim World Discussion' started by E.j., Mar 9, 2022.

  1. E.j.

    E.j. Member

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    I was having a discussion on another forum regarding TSW2 and the Harlem Line. There's been a lot of debate that the route should have gone as far as the electrification. I was told that the reason TSW routes aren't as long as the TS2022 routes are due to the number of stations. To me, that didn't make sense. So I decided to see if there is any truth to this and raise the question here.
     
  2. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I mean not really. London Commuter has 30 stations. The Electrified section of the Harlem line has 31. The reason why the Harlem line is short is because of the complex scenery. Basically the scenery in Manhattan and parts of the Bronx along with self imposed time constraints. DTG wanted to get the scenery right and since that took a long time, they most likely ran out of time to make the route longer.
     
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  3. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully they will extend it in the future before add the rest of the other line:D
     
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  4. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    My guess is they start with a budget, based on expected sales. Then make a calculation on miles of track, number of stations, landmarks and so on. During build they still may throw stuff out to stay within budget and schedule. For instances, see Tees Valley with a huge number of unfinished yards.
     
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  5. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    There isn't a hard limit. It's just a matter of what they are willing to and find financially reasonable to make. They could make the whole MTA system or the whole NEC as one single route, but it just wouldn't be worth it.

    Though I would be willing to pay more for more full routes
     
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  6. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    And in the case of TVL, if the freight only section, very scenic too, to Boulby had been included along with the Bishop Auckland branch, would have been much more complete.
     
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  7. Quentin

    Quentin Well-Known Member

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    As we've discussed often before, I'd be prepared to pay double for a significantly longer route, as (it seems) would many other users of these forums. But the question is whether a sufficient number, out of all the potential purchasers out there, would so so (and I'm sure DTG will have done market research to find the answer). If a double-length route costs twice as much to make, and sells for twice the price, but only half as many units end up being sold, DTG have made a thumping loss. So maybe it needs to cost 4x as much, but then hardly anyone would buy it ...
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2022
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  8. kaosfere

    kaosfere New Member

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    I'm big into flight simulation, both as a user and developer, and I think it shows the way here. I consider there to be three different "tiers" of aircraft produced for flight sim. You have the cheap and cheerful "Control-E and go" planes from companies like Carenado that you can get for $20 a pop, and they are good enough for the vast majority of folks. If you want to get a little more complex, places like MilViz and Flightsimworks offer slightly more complex and realistic models, usually in the $40 price range. But even these aren't good enough for the true rivet-counters and switch fetishists.

    To get to the truly top-of-the-line you are looking at a much more extensive amount of work. The leap in accuracy is big, but so is the leap in price. If you look at products from PMDG, traditionally the ne plus ultra of flight sim airliners, those take literally years to develop, and you pay for them too: often to the tune of $120 dollars, sometimes more. They exist because there is a market for it, but it's a small market that demands a lot of energy and specialist skills, so the products are proportionally much more expensive than the next step down the ladder.

    Most of TSW's stuff falls between the "Carenado" and the "MilViz" levels for me. I think to get the level of detail and attention some people are asking for, you need to be willing to pay not double, but three or four times as much.

    You might not immediately feel like you're getting three or four times as much content, but at that point you're falling victim to the Pareto Principle: the last 20% of the work takes 80% of the time. It's one of the iron laws of software development. Combine with that the fact that detail to that level often requires specialist, and expensive, levels of skill, both in development and in testing. Granted, development of train routes is not quite the same, but I think a lot of the same lessons, and expectations, apply.

    I'd happily pay upwards of $100 for fully implemented line that came with at least one very highly detailed and accurate loco. But it would need to be perfect. I wouldn't be the only one -- but there wouldn't be many. Such things usually come from specialist houses, not the "big" developers, and my suspicion is that's how we're like to eventually see such things for TSW, but I could be wrong there. It's just a semi-educated guess.
     
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  9. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    Good to know DTG want to get the scenery right. I would rather have a shorter more realistic route with the scenery right, rather than some fairytale fictional effort similar to Rivet’s effort’s especially after the disappointment with the scenery in West Cornwall Local.

    Well done to DTG for the time and effort they are putting in to getting the Harlem Line realistic and presentable, I will definitely purchase the Harlem Line, but am not going to buy the new Rivet route.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2022
  10. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    The concept is correct, but it's taken out of context and oversimplified.

    Back when TGV was released (~100km) and Clinchfield (+100km) this question was raised: "if now 100km+ routes are possible, why are we still getting incomplete routes, even if a "complete" route (terminus to terminus) is just over 100km?" And the answer to that is that the amount of resources that is needed to create a route is more dependent on number of stations (and I assume scenery) rather than lenght. This is the answer to the question: "why are some TSW routes shorter than other TSW routes?"

    Why are routes shorter compared to TS is another matter, I assume it's because more effort has to be put in other areas, for example building the timetable, and TSW has still to introduce things that are already done in TS (for example tilting trains were not a thing until a few months ago), some safety systems are still not working correctly (or at all), and the signalling is not perfect in some areas.

    That was sort of the correct answer to the wrong question.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2022
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  11. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    TSW routes and trains take significantly more development time than TS routes. It’s been said that a loco takes around 10 times as much work. One of the reasons is that the player can walk around within the trains and the routes, another is the level of detail is generally much higher. That is the major reason, the amount of work that goes into a route and the trains, the timetable (which is another thing TS doesn’t have) and scenarios is much greater than for TS and there is a finite limit on what is commercially viable to make because of it.

    Another thing to take on board with TSW is that not all routes are equal in the amount of work that goes into them. Just because one route has 30 stations does not mean that all routes can have 30 stations. The same goes for route length. Some people are saying that because the London-Brighton route (one of the flagship Rush Hour launch routes) is 50 miles long and has 30 stations that Metro North Harlem (a standard DLC) should be 53 miles long and have 31 stations by going all the way to Southeast. It’s just not possible to stretch to that kind of length and complexity with every DLC.

    As for some people being prepared to pay £100 or $100 for a longer route, that price would not be acceptable to the vast majority of players, so would not be viable for DTG to make routes at that price. As others have said, they just would not sell in the same large numbers that current route DLC sell at with their current price, so would likely result in less income and not cover the cost of development. It is the total number of sales of a DLC that matters not what some individuals are prepared to pay.

    Another thing that gets mentioned is that there is no limit to how long a route can get because the game only loads the scenery tiles around the player. This is false. The scenery tiles and the trains running that are loaded so they can be seen are not the only thing that use up resources. There are other things going on that will get more resource hungry as a route gets bigger. What DTG actually say is they haven’t reached the limit yet so they can’t say what it is but there will definitely be one. If a really long route or route mergers come in the future we might get to find out what that limit is but it won’t just be related to the length of the route or merged routes but to the total complexity, which includes the density of the track layout and scenery and how many trains are running etc.

    So the Harlem route stops where it stops due to the prohibitive cost of development of making it longer. North White Plains is achievable as an end point (and makes sense as it is a terminus for many services), while Southeast (the next potential sensible end point) is not, for the maximum development budget that DTG deem can be covered by the projected sales of the DLC, while still making a suitable profit.
     
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  12. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    In the case of routes though, probably not strictly true. Obviously no one outside DTG or their associates can confirm how long a section takes to do in their UE4 editor, but I know from my own experience in the route editors for TS, Trainz and in the past MSTS exactly how long a 10 or 15 mile stretch of track will take. There will be slight variations depending on factors such as urban density and especially in the case of Trainz I would be using ready made assets from owned DLC or the Download Station to populate the route, not making them myself. However, I assume DTG has separate artist teams working on buildings and stations plus as the programme moves forward there will be a large list of generic basic items such as houses and vegetation readily available.

    As a ballpark figure, I used to reckon about a month of work in spare time to produce around 20 miles of route in Trainz. A 60 mile route would be 3 months. DTG also don't have the issues a part time freeware hobby builder has. First of all their route builders are being paid to put in 8 or more hours a day, 5 days a week on the project (whereas in my spare time 2 hours, other jobs around the house or activities notwithstanding). They can't get bored and turn round to Matt or Jacko and say, "Sorry Boss, lost interest in this one. Going to delete it and move on to my next grand idea". That would be quickly followed by a P45 and escort off the premises by security...

    Again without knowing the intricate details of how route building works at Dovetail (WFH) Towers, it should be possible to crank out a longer route than the typical freeware builder working on their own, could ever hope to achieve in the same amount of time. That same 3 months in the route editor should give us 100+ miles as opposed to my 60.
     
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  13. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    You're overlooking the amount of time it takes to make, simulate, refine and re-calculate timetables, something TS and Trainz editors don't include. You're also I think overlooking the fact that TSW scenery assets are (usually; some should be but aren't) more detailed and complicated than TS assets; and you need a lot more of them because of the on-foot feature; TS doesn't have to model anything you can't see from the cab.
     
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  14. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Well let's just hope that really is the case and we really get good scenery. I mean I still havn't seen a single route that would reach Sand Patch Grade's level of scenery. And SPG offers you great scenery for a whole 2 hour long journey.

    Now I'm not expecting Harlem Line to have SPG level of detail, but I do hope the short length will mean we get something actually good. The fact that they bothered to add things like the improved track snow render is a good sign.
     
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  15. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Experience would suggest that Dovetail frequently underestimates the length of time it takes to complete a route.
    As witness the subsequent updates.
    This would indicate the length to the forthcoming route was selected to fit within their projected budget.
     
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  16. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I think the proof will definitely be in the pudding for the Harlem route. If, when released, it turns out to be heavily and accurately detailed in terms of the urban scenery, track work and train detail, then I think most of us will accept the relative shortness of the route as a necessary trade-off at the low $30 price.

    DTG's policy is to maintain a $30/£24 price level, it would seem, forever. Therefore, we are not going to see longer routes with a high level of urban/suburban detail any time soon. What we may see sooner are some long rural or mountainous routes in, say, the southwest of England, the north of Scotland or the mountain West of Canada or the U S, which can perhaps use auto gen technology.

    It's more important to get landmark structures accurately depicted than a few extra miles of factories and automobile graveyards. Some people like to spend all their time in the cab. I, and others, like to look around the train and the land/cityscape.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2022
  17. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    The problem with marketing questions is that an individual opnion may not be representative for a large population. At least DTG thinks (justified or not) that most people ar not willing to pay the double price.
     
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  18. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    $30 for dlc certanly isn't very low. Compared to other games, it's quite a high price.
     
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  19. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    True, but you still have to test each and every scenario or activity then rinse and repeat until it works correctly.

    I admit my view was probably rather simplistic, but the point still stands - the routes are being built by people paid to do so working full time on the task. So even if the job is harder and longer per route mile than Trainz or MSTS then that should still mean a three month budget for primary track laying and scenery building should deliver more than 50 miles. Or, is it the case that DTG have outsourced some of the route projects and they are indeed being built in spare time by people who are not working full time it?
     
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  20. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I dunno, Clinchfield looks awfully good.
     
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  21. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I don't buy many other games, so I can't make a comparison, but I think the amount of work that goes into accurately portraying the real life urban detail of Manhattan and The Bronx along with a complex railway and it's timetable, is pretty cheap at about $1 a route mile.
    How you can produce and sell something like BML, Boston or Dresden- Riesa at 30 bucks (or less as a bundle) and still make a profit, is frankly amazing to me.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2022
  22. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Well if you don't play other games then the price dlcs' be low to you . But for the average gamer who plays many other games, tsw2 dlc's certainly aren't "cheap"
     
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  23. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely agree with that.
     
  24. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I agree as well. Even though I don't play spg alot, I still think it is the best modelled route in tsw2. Even better then clinchfield and since that was the first route for tsw, that says alot to be honest about the inconstancies of quality of routes in tsw2.
     
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  25. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Nah. I mean yeah, at some placed it does. But it's still nowhere close to Sand Patch Grade.

    For example, most level crossings look horrible on Clinchfield, there are terrain tiles where the grass is completely missing, the river banks have zero detail (while on SPG the river is beautifully detailed with small rocks and things, and the water is actually blue). I believe the timetable is also better in SPG, giving you plenty of "go-to-mine, load coal, go back" timetable services, while I believe on Clinchfield you barely have any coal loading in timetable mode (but correct me if I'm wrong). SPG also has sound reverb in tunnels, which is something that barely any TSW route has.

    So while Clinchfield might be better than the avarage, it's still got nothing on SPG. And then Clinchfield also has issues like trains blocking each other in timetable mode, or the boxcars causing framerate drops.
     
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  26. Quentin

    Quentin Well-Known Member

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    I don't disagree, but the market for flight simulator software is far larger than train simulators. Once third party developers have reached the point where they can produce software on a par with DTG, I'd love to see one give a 'big' route a go. But I suspect it would be a 'brave' management decision.

    Market researchers (the reputable ones, anyway) are extremely skilled at producing accurate assessments of the behaviour of a large population from a small sample. Stratified sampling allows an accurate political opinion poll to be based on 1,000 people surveyed (in the UK).
     
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  27. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Trust me, in the Appalachians the RL rivers are murky green. The one in SPG looks unnatural.
     
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  28. kaosfere

    kaosfere New Member

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    Oh, indeed. There are only a few names that reliably produce truly high-end stuff for flight sim and it is, as you say, a much larger market.

    What I see as the most likely route for TSW is for DTG to contract an external dev who have proven their talent and attention to detail on smaller scale work and give them the task of producing an "expensive" route. It would allow DTG to continue to focus on their bread and butter, while also growing a potentially new market, and it provides a more stable partnered environment for the third party to work in than if they were doing it entirely on their own, speculatively.

    Another option would be "basic" and "premium" versions of a route. Use the foundational development work for a given route and loco to fund the rest of the development by letting people buy a streamlined, lighter weight version, then adding a more complex version as a later paid upgrade or for direct purchase on its own at a later date. Not sure how that would play out, but it could be one way of doing it in stages.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2022
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  29. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    I think the route lenght in a single dlc for the price now is ok. Sometimes its less (harlem line), and sometimes you get more (rh season pass).

    Longer routes for higher prices are unlikley because you force everybody to buy additional miles somebody might not want.

    My suggestion in this are the extensions / merges. Mudulare plugging the track sections. So as single dlc independend.

    Who ever had the idea with the 24h timetable, its a genious thing and in my opinion the best improvement of tsw.

    My point is the market potential of extensions is absolutley there. Tsw has improved gameplay wise. The stuborn excuse "extensions didnt sell well in ts" cant be adapted to tsw because ts is not open world for the player, no activities outside the train and has no 24h timetable.

    2nd: There was never a trial or reference, which that got tested. Dlc released, dtg moves on to next dlc, released, dtg moves on to next dlc..., nobody ever tested the true market potential of extensions in tsw, so nobody has a valid answer to it.

    At the point dtg wakes up, they will find them self stuck once again for creating fantasy timetables, which arent compatible at the linking point. With all those unnessecary self created problems due not thinking ahead we wont probably see much progress on that side.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2022
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  30. delucadomenico2009

    delucadomenico2009 Active Member

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    Expetially for german dlcs, where with DRA we are near the saturation in terms of gameplay service variety. Yes there are some germsn locos that can add too, but no one is very unique and "new" for the game. (The story is different for uk and U.S. dlc) So i think that a modulare project for a german long term dlc could be very interesting. A base route, in an area with a lot of traffic and varietry, exemple Dortmund to X city, and tham make a "season pass" for this route that provvides extentions of the line with addition of services but in form of branches (more or less 15km per time), so branch after branch the line will be complete, with gameplay variety. Also, this procedure can be focus on just a part of the route, exemple added a freight yard near Dortmund or a facilty area like the Volkswagen one that can add gameplay features. Same with time tables, they don't need to rework it every time, just extend the AI services and make it playable until the new "deadpoint". Also new trains can be added like dlc and layers on future (and maybe they find a solution about locos duplicate and subsituion). Someone can say, ok but how can be the timetable similar to real world one along the time? Just set the route to an era like now, or just update the time of the main services 1 time per year or every 2 year (work for the preservation crew). It is massive after a bit yes but with and upgraded version of the dispatcher for priority and train path and the game will update the timetable automatically for the most part and the Test will not take a lot of time. Could it be interesting? Yes. Something new that can be done for U.S. and U.K. too? Yes. For me, better than have duplicate versions of routes that basically do the same things without any gameplay peculiar activity (exemple, MSB banking services on gradient) and leave the "common" dlc sequence to the thrird party or to iconic and historical route. My honest opinion, third party needs to focus on locos and wagons dlc, better quality of consist and leave the creation of the route to DTG (owner of the tech) that instead can focus on scenary, track layout and game oprimization ecc ecc. Back to the topic, the main problem for me on harlem line isn't the lenght, but the fact that it doesn't have nothing special in this configuration. Just another A-B line. Simple a LIRR 2.0 with silver/blue train instead silver/yellow. If the story was gone different, and harlem line was done years ago and now with the new standard we will have the LIRR i think that the hype of everyone for the route would be 10 times more. However happy to be completly wrong and harlem will be one of the best route.
     
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  31. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Dont forget about the realistic Sound for the M3A, M7A, and more realistic track noise, horn, ata function and the city ambient, atmosphere and the headlight, and the night time view cause this is what we want to see:D
     
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  32. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I think DTG could easily do longer routes if the will is there. And I'm sure there is enough people that would pay a little more for them if the route was good enough. There is the problem, would DTG be capable of doing a longer route justice and would it run well on the consoles? Given we still are living with the bugs in the core update, Rush Hour, stutters for some, memory issues, sound problems on consoles, save issues ETC, ETC. I doubt it.
     
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  33. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Simple solution. 2 x £25 connectable routes that bolt together so those that want to pay £50 get a longer route, those that don’t buy the half they want
     
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  34. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    yeah that would work but again is the will there from DTG?
     
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  35. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Honestly that would be the best approach. I really hope at one point DTG gets to it.
     
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  36. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    And Sherman Hill.
     
  37. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that would be feasible, in a business sense, for DTG.
    Think about it. Suppose they had made two routes, one from GCT to North White Plains and another from NWP to Southeast which could be attached to form the entire route that people want.

    First, there would be a massive outcry if each section was $30. Secondly, who would really buy the NWP to Southeast route. Only people who first had bought the GCT to NWP by itself. So it would likely be a poor seller separately.
    You can extrapolate this argument to other routes such as the Hudson and New Haven lines.

    In TC, DTG made the line from Bristol to Cardiff, then later, separately, made Bristol to Swansea. That was a different solution to the " extension " problem, but, as far as I know, it was not repeated.
    They also made different sections of the ECML and SEHS, but not with the ability to attach them to make one long route
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2022
  38. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Easy. Bundle the second half of the Harlem Line with the P32s, so it gives the original route more traffic and variety while extending it at the same time. Same could be done with LIRR (another full branch + diesels), Boston Sprinter (another branch + new loco + bi-level cars), Sherman Hill (track 3 + another train), GWE (extend route + new train) and other similar incomplete routes.
     
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  39. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    So, in order to get the P32, people who wanted just the GCT to NWP would have to buy an entire " new " route?
    I think that would go down like a lead balloon.
    Actually, I think this whole notion would sink like a stone.
    Just adding a branch with new stock is OK, but that's not what we're talking about here.
    Do you really think DTG could charge $30 for Track 3? Most of us think it should have come with SHH. There was no charge for the Dresden Branch, and for good reason.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2022
  40. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Why would anyone want the P32 only on the GCT-NWP section? They barely have any purpose there. With a route extension however, they would be perfect.

    And it's not like bundles are a new thing. For example, to get the retro-CSX SD40 or the silver Bakerloo Line stock, I still have to buy the whole New Journey pack. The packs I made up as examples at least would make sense and would be appealing.
     
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  41. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

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    How is the sales environment on consoles? As far as I know the discounts never reach what is offered to PC players, right?
    Steam announced some new rules to allegedly fight fake discounts, hopefully it will have no impact on legit discounts due to time related restrictions coming up.

    In games like OMSI, they don't go over 25% even in the biggest campaigns and this is an old and very outdated game. I've only seen a 40% discount once in the past 5 years and lasted for a day think.

    My point is, if budget is so tight and crucial, how come we can have reductions of up to 90% in some cases and then use the argument that the budget was not enough to build new routes more accurate, with enough trains accurate to the route (not wrong dostos) etc.!?

    The preservation team appeared as a need to allow the main team to focus on releasing a product "good enough" to then be patched here and there in the next years. How much financial resources could be saved by not needing this team and making the product of higher quality from the get-go? If they really want to invest the money in a second team, QA is a weak spot, allocate resources there to get at least some specialised testers and not the same ones that test the fishing game for example.

    I'm not complaining about the discounts, I'm glad we have them. I am just trying to find a logic between their arguments and their sales strategy and how this affects development.
    We know this strategy from TS but considering they always say TSW is different, it needs more time to build the same route and loco etc., it is then viable to have a sales strategy viable to TS applied to TSW? It seems to hurt the product more than it helps it.

    Due to their constant corner cutting, I rarely buy routes at full price as I believe they are not worth the full price. I would make this effort if they would make the effort to come with a product over its TS counterpart. Until then...
     
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  42. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    That isn't really so.

    The Preserved Team exists as a function of the fact that technology marches on and that DTG expects that over time its routes will increase in sophistication. In the first instance, this manifested in the release of TSW2/UE4.2, and the need to upgrade older UE 4.1 routes to be compatible. But the addition of improvements has not stopped there, with things like PIS, skies, crossing gates, LZB and RH passengers, just to name a few. Newer routes will continue to add features that older routes don't have, and upgrading older routes to current standards is the Preserved Crew's main job. Bug fixes are only ancillary, a sort of "while you have the hood up, you might as well..." thing.

    The notion that DTG sets out to release buggy DLC and set up the PC for the purpose of walking behind the elephant with a broom is nonsense.
     
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  43. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    I like this 2 parts of a route as seperate DLC and the Hudson line following the Harlem with the P32AC would be a perfect fit IMO.

    But from a business perspective Im not sure that 2 Metro North DLCs would be as profitable as say 1 Metro North and 1 Tri Rail route (for example).
     
  44. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder why was the ¨main team¨ the one that revived the oldest routes in the game through the expansion pack and not the preservation crew if they are truly in the game for bringing older rotes up-to-date!?
     
  45. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The recent expansion pack had little or nothing to do with bringing the core routes (which are not the oldest) "up to date." The most that could be said in that regard is that somehow, by mistake, a partial implementation of PIS on SKA was included. But inventing a new timetable or new livery is hardly an "updating to current standards."
     
  46. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Your example with MNR is a poor choice of route to be honest, Southeast to White Plains, I agree, not going to be popular.

    You really need a city to city line, something like WCML Manchester- Euston, with the cutoff in between. Of course that’s probably stretching the length, but WCML is usually a popular suggestion, and has tons of DLC opportunities beyond it.

    I think the biggest issue is DTG’s commitment to loco DLC’s, these would be pretty major to getting the potentially longer routes working.

    I think that creating intercity routes in sections is probably the way to go, it’s not like the content would much different to what we get in terms of DLC theme right now, most of the DLC in TSW within a particular country is set around the same time, with the same traction method, and very similar trains.
     
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  47. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    That effort would in the first instance be easiest with a German route, because of the availability of existing trains without needing repaints. Any German route pretty much comes with multiple layers because the r/s is universal (which of course is also the drawback to German routes: little variety).

    As a quick and dirty experiment, they could attempt to link RRO and RSN. Yes, I know there are no passenger services that those routes have in common- but for a first experiment, that's an advantage. Only have to timetable some through freights and sort out platform assignments at Hagen.

    Problem with a British route is the plethora of TOCs and liveries. As has oft been complained of, BML has a glaring hole in it called "Thameslink."
     
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  48. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Problem solved if you set it pre 1994 and the split into Railtrack (the predecessor of Network Rail), then the break up of BR into various private companies.
     
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  49. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

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    But you said in your previous post that the preservation crew...
    Oh, nevermind. We know you just like to contradict me. ;)
     
  50. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, the quieter parts could be bundled with a wagon or these £8.99 expansions built in to entice perhaps. Something not too onerous on dev time but tantalising enough to make us buy it.
     

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