Route Proposal: Tehachapi Pass Pre-1971 ( Bakersfield To Mojave )

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Blacknred81, Sep 4, 2020.

  1. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    So, and idea for a mix Passenger and Freight route for Train Sim World 2 would be Southern Pacific's Tehachapi Pass, which runs between the Central Valley town of Bakersfield, California, to the desert town of Mojave, with a route length of about 68 miles between Stations (about 55 direct miles). The best era for this route, due to the lack of Steam Trains, would best be between 1960 and 1971, the later years of passenger service over the line (As SP would ban passenger trains from the line after 1971, which is still upheld by the Union Pacific, aside from Coast Starlight detours)
    [​IMG]

    The line itself sees a mix of flat high speed running in both the valley and the desert, as well as steep mountain grades thru the Tehachapi Mountains. Snow is also a possibility in the higher elevations (But not to the extend as Donner Pass). The highlight of the route would obviously be the very well known Tehachapi Loop.

    -Bakersfield Yard
    [​IMG]

    -Sandcut
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    -Caliente
    [​IMG]

    -Tehachapi Loop
    [​IMG]

    -Tehachapi
    [​IMG]

    -Monolith
    [​IMG]

    Mojave
    [​IMG]

    Passenger Service
    So for passenger services there would be 2 trains that can run the route for the era. The San Joaquin Daylight, which ran between Oakland and LA, and its overnight counterpart, The Owl. At the time this is set in, there were 3 stops on the proposed route, these being in Bakersfield, Tehachapi, and Mojave.
    [​IMG]

    The majority of equipment at this time was painted into the simpler Red and Stainless Steel "Sunset Limited" scheme aside from some head end cars, which were solid grey.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    As far as power goes, there are a few candidates for this job...
    -EMD F7A/B
    -EMD GP9
    [​IMG]

    EMD SDP45
    [​IMG]

    Freight Service
    With this being one of Southern Pacific 2 major north-south routes in California, the line would of most likely seen a majority of freight handled by the railroads at the time. Both Mojave and Bakersfield maintains large freight yards, so yard switching is also possible for the route, the only think I don't have any knowledge on is any local services on the line except maybe between Edison and Bakersfield (I don't know when that cement plant near Tehachapi was built).
    Motive Power for the route could be the following...

    -EMD SD9 (1954)
    [​IMG]

    -EMD SD35 (1963)
    [​IMG]

    -EMD SD40 (1966)
    [​IMG]

    -GE U30C (1968)
    [​IMG]

    In addition,switching power could be eitrher any of EMDs or ALCOs switchers

    Uses with Scenario and Livery Editor
    With the addition of the Livery Editor and Scenario maker, it would be possible to also add Santa Fe Trains to the route for ones own personal use, as the Santa Fe had trackage rights with the SP, as the SP didn't want the ATSF to build their own line thru the pass. Off the rails mode would allow use to simulate more modern operations as well with the UP equipment coming with the Cane Creek branch line.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  2. jedi247

    jedi247 Well-Known Member

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    Tehachapi in the 60s and 70s would be an amazing route. I like the SD7 or SD9 idea. An Alco RSD-15 Alligator would be a great loco to include for heavy freight. I'd also like a few SP Black Widow diesels on the route. Also, if the route is set in the 60s-70s, I'd love an SP U50, FM H-24-66 Trainmaster Alco PA, Alco DH-643, and/or ML4000. ATSF and/or UP diesels would be great to see as well. If we get steam locos in TSW2, a cab forward would be awesome.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
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  3. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    Amazing idea for an awesome route. I would absolutely buy this!
     
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  4. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Great suggestion. Would make a great addition to our collection no matter the era. I‘d have argued that BNSF (or in this case ATSF) licensing would be an issue, but by setting it in the SP era we avoid most of that (great idea to use the livery designer for ATSF btw).
    For DTG‘s usual game of reusing one loco they could even use the upcoming Clinchfield F7s.
    Would love to see this happen and would definitely buy on day one!:)
     
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  5. steammaster4449

    steammaster4449 Well-Known Member

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    Not true. SP 4449 ran over the pass with 3 Tunnel Motor helpers in either '75 or '76 with the American Freedom Train and multiple times after it got painted back into Daylight colors. SF 3751 also ran over it with 2 FP45 helpers on its first public excursion in '91 or '92 after it's restoration was completed.




    UP probably doesn't want any extra trains going over the pass aside from Coast Starlight detours like you said, but SP didn't ban passenger trains over the line.
     
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  6. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Excursions don't count as regular passenger trains.

    Others that also dont count are OCS and the Ringling Brothers Circus trains.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2020
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  7. whitmanr87

    whitmanr87 New Member

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    100% would purchase! Great proposal.
     
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  8. steammaster4449

    steammaster4449 Well-Known Member

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    Ah. I stand corrected.
     
  9. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Would TSW trains be long enough to pass under or over themselves on the loop I wonder. It would be a shame if the route was made but the trains were too short for that to happen.
     
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  10. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Per wiki, at least 4000ft or 1200m.
     
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  11. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    So currently it’s a no then. You’d want a train that was around 1300m for a decent overlap. Never mind.
     
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  12. brodeyness4

    brodeyness4 Member

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    I am very much hoping this becomes reality as there is so much scenery along with passenger and freight operations which would be very fun! Thanks for the suggestion!
     
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  13. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Would be epic! Nice introduction :)
     
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  14. pugilist3

    pugilist3 Member

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    I agree!
     
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  15. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Good idea but I can possibly see this falling outside DTG's remit for a number of reasons - length, slow speed over much of the route (I love Run 8 but grinding up the hill at 22 MPH if you're lucky can get tedious) and whether there could be licensing issues with UP/BNSF. (Even for a historical setting).

    Tehachapi is also quite well represented elsewhere, with as mentioned Run8, 3DTS earlier version for MSTS, the version in Freddy Kreuger Train Sim (sorry, Trainz) and there was Marc Nelson's beta version rolling for RW/TS.
     
  16. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I still have fond memories of that:love: In fact, I still got it installed.

    That's probably true. As DTG say they want to provide variety, I wouldn't expect slow uphill American freight anytime soon after SPG's console release.
    As for licensing: They could just go with UP or brand belonging to them but they may not wish to model a route featuring a lot of BNSF action without. It's either way a detrimental point from DTG's point of view, I think.
     
  17. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    -I don't see how this is a problem, the Union Pacific is pretty good about their heritage and the licensing side of things, we have gotten Southern Pacific DLC for Train Simulator as well, so I don't see how that's any kind of roadblock.

    -BNSF shouldn't be an issue for this line, they have trackage rights and that's it. The line is still owned and maintained by UP, and a commercial historical release could easily omit any Santa Fe traffic from the line and replace it with SP traffic (Or none at all)

    -If that's the case, why did Dovetail pick The Clinchfield Railroad for their next US project instead of a line that is more straightforward like a commuter line or midwest freight line?
     
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  18. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I‘m afraid I‘m not actually familiar with Clinchfield. If it‘s similiar to SPG then I stand corrected.
     
  19. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    It should be fairly similar to the TS20XX one minus about 6-7 miles on the south end of the route. Still mountain railroading, still slow grades and curves.
     
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  20. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Ah thank you. I haven't watched any of that as I want to see it for the first time myself in TSW aboard a F7:)
    But thanks for educating me.
     
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  21. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    So found some modern footage of the pass from the rear of a detouring Amtrak Coast Starlight. Something to note is that it does take almost 2 hours to go from Mojave (About 1:55:00 in) to the end of the video, so timetable length might be a problem (I don't think most players want to spend 2hrs on a service)
     
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  22. aarontheloner

    aarontheloner Active Member

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    Sounds cool to me.
     
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  23. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    It would be around the same lenght then like a SPG service. I think the problem (for those that don’t like 2hr services like me :D) of long services is just something that will almost always accompany North American freight because of its slow nature and long distances between yards (or other stopping points for TSW).
     
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  24. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    Back in 2018 Dovetail put this route as one of the options in that years survey, the question was "Which of these routes would you be interested in?" or something close to that. Granted said survey ain't a guarantee they'll be made, and some I'm dead certain won't, but I imagine that they're ideas that they had been seriously considered at one point. So I gotta imagine that timetable length was factored in, and clearly it wasn't enough of a factor to completely toss the idea.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2021
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  25. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well if they fix the save game algorithm, shouldn't be a problem to do it in two or more stages...
     
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  26. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    With the Steam announcement today, gonna open up Tehachapi's suggested era to Southern Pacific's Steam Era, post 1952 Kern County Earthquake, as well.

    One thing that it will add is that SP ran a Stopping Train between San Francisco and Los Angeles along with the Daylights and overnight Owl. This would add station stops at Caliente, Woodford, and Monolith. I'm not sure when SP discontinued this train. Timetable below is from 1949.
    sanjoaquinroute.jpg

    Possible Steam trains for the route can be the following.

    Cab Forward 4-8-8-2 AC10 to AC12 class.
    [​IMG]

    Mountain Class 4-8-2 + Daylight Colors
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    GS Class 4-8-4 (Daylight, War Baby)
    [​IMG]

    The steam equipment could be mixed in with some of Sothern Pacific's Black Widow Diesels, to make a transition era route, not to mention some trains used both steam and diesel during this time. The F7, GP9 and SD9 could fill into this role.

    It also seemed like common practice for Southern Pacific to Double Head the San Joaquin Daylight for the climb over the Tehachapi Mountains.
    [​IMG]
     
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  27. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    One last add for this route is 2 potential branch lines for the route.

    The 1st is the Arvin Branch Line, which splits off of the Mainline between Bakersfield and Edison, and runs about 17 miles south to the small town of Arvin. A little ambitious of a line, but its the shortest branchline the SP had in the Bakersfield area. The SJVR still operates on this line.
    aaaaaaaaaa.png

    The 2nd is the Creal Branch, which runs west from the Mojave Yard, to a cement plant about 8 miles away.
    aaaaaaaaaaa.png
    3973f3162fb718e5a84fdcf3a364068e.jpg
     
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  28. csxfan#8403

    csxfan#8403 Active Member

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    Update this into the 1980s-1990s, and you'd have early Amtrak and SPSF Kodachrome schemes, as well as Superliner coaches and the F40PH-2s
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2021
  29. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    There are no more passenger services on the line after 1971, Amtrak didn't maintain them and Southern Pacific denied them.
     
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  30. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Excellent proposal and two these locomotives is already in game for Clinchfield the SD40 & F7A/B both need a reskin from CSX predecessor railroad clinchfield into Union Pacific predecessor Southern Pacific Railroad paint. Pretty much sending the standard for United States Freight railroads they order the same locomotive with different specifications but still able to do multiple unit control. Even the U30C Southern Pacific can layer onto Cane creek route just like SD40 Clinchfield on SPG.
     
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  31. csxfan#8403

    csxfan#8403 Active Member

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    That would come in handy for a N&W route
     
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  32. dedh98mosqueto

    dedh98mosqueto Active Member

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    Yes, I love the route idea and the idea of adding older passenger trains.
     
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  33. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    An article came out about this coming soon for TS2021, so hopefully, a TSW2 version pops up one day.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    The TS2021 version looks pretty good from the screenshots TBH.
     
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  34. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. As it is a DTG route from what I gather skipping through the article, that could mean it'll come to TSW someday. I imagine it would only feature UP in TSW for licensing reasons, though. Still, I'd love to see it happen.
     
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  35. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    As long as there's a bunch of mainline locos (Aces, GEVOs, Tier 4s maybe) and not just AC4400 again, I'm fine with just UP.
     
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  36. finntd#7891

    finntd#7891 Well-Known Member

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    Do you think Alco PAs could be a Potential DLC?
    I was gonna ask about the Alco FAs but i couldnt quite find out if SP had those.
     
  37. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    The ALCO PA definitely can fit this time period. The SP owned about 39 PAs and 13 PBs (More if you include the SSW and TNO orders) And they did get the Bloody Nose paint.
    6015_sp-pa1-don_jewell.jpg

    Only thing is by the end of the 60's, only 10 PA's were left on the roster, and those got scratched in 1968.
    http://espee.railfan.net/1968rost.html
     
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  38. finntd#7891

    finntd#7891 Well-Known Member

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    well they can probably make the PA scenarios take place before 1968.
    on the other hand do you think it would be reasonable to see the SP locos on some UP routes like Cane creek if this gets made?
     
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  39. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Unlikely for this era, as the Southern Pacific "technically" only owned the Cane Creek branch from 1988 to 1996. Most of the locomotives ives suggested have been retired by then except for the GP9 and SD40s. Also even during that time, it was still mostly Rio Grande power operating the local out of Grand Junction. Even after Union Pacific took over, it was still possible to see Rio Grande equipment out there till about the mid 2000s.
     
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  40. finntd#7891

    finntd#7891 Well-Known Member

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    well going back to my PA DLC question how about it instead its a E9 DLC with the E7, E7B to with
     
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