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Route Suggestion: Chicago & Northwestern / Union Pacific | Geneva Subdivision | Updated!

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by ingenzone, Nov 30, 2020.

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  1. Chicago & Northwestern - Classic

    58.7%
  2. Union Pacific - Modern

    15.2%
  3. Metra UP West line - 1984 to Present

    26.1%
  1. ingenzone

    ingenzone Member

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    UPDATE 1/19/21:
    (Added a full list of Locomotives and Railcars + DLC in the replies)

    We Need A Classic Chicago Route!

    Train Sim World really needs a good Chicago route, let alone more US ones. Because Chicago is known as the "Railroad Capital of the World", TSW needs a route that can properly showcase Chicago and midwestern railroading. Fret not railfans, for I bring you the Geneva Subdivision.

    Some new features that this route could include:
    - Older Style North American locos
    - Trailers on Flatcars
    - Cabooses
    - Older Style Covered Hoppers
    - More Loading of Cars Services and Scenarios
    - Semaphore Signals (Those mechanical, flag type signals)


    My proposal contains three different approaches to the same route.
    1. Chicago and Northwestern (Era: Early 80s - 1995)
    2. Union Pacific (Era: 1995 - Present)
    3. Metra UP West - Passenger Route (Era: 1984 - Present) I since removed this approach from the thread. I will repost this on a separate thread if there is enough demand for it.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Photo: CNW yards at Clinton, Iowa. 1981.

    Below is my map of the Geneva Subdivision. Yards and other railroad 'hotspots' are marked. Lines in green mark the portions of track I think should be modeled in order to shorten the overall length. (applies to freight) Metra UP West runs on a different section of track not shown on the map.
    Screen Shot 2020-11-29 at 8.11.16 PM.png

    Map below shows the total track starting at Proviso.
    Screen Shot 2020-11-29 at 3.10.12 PM.png
    I highly recommend this route operate under the Chicago and Northwestern Railroad. With this, players can experience caboose operations, have more locomotives to run, and immerse themselves in classic midwestern railroading. Adding more defunct railroads to TSW adds variety to the game.

    I wanted to make sure the route had enough variety and flexibility. Some issues I’ve had with other North American routes in TSW is that they don’t have enough variety throughout the route. Sand Patch Grade, for example, has most services run from Rockwood to Cumberland or vice versa. There isn’t much change throughout the 50 miles of track. This could be fixed by having parts of the route left out (flat farmland exceeding over 5 miles, etc.)

    I don't believe DTG has ever done something like this before. Although it may make the route seem 'unrealistic' to some, doing this will make sure the route has enough content in length given. DTG could consider doing this to other routes, fixing the problem of routes feeling "unfinished."

    Geneva Sub General Background:
    The Geneva Subdivision is the oldest railroad in Chicago. It originally started as The Galena and Chicago Union Railroad, later merging with Chicago and Northwestern in 1864. In 1995, Chicago and Northwestern merged with the Union Pacific Railroad. CNW ran passenger trains from the very beginning until the mid 70s when RTA (now Metra) took over operations.

    On the Geneva Subdivision, trains run on the left side instead of the usual right. This is because CNW ran trains this way in the past and the practice has remained to this day.

    Proposal 1 (Chicago and Northwestern | Early 80s - 1995)
    Proviso IL - Clinton IA
    Total Route Length: 131 mi. (210 km)
    Shortened Length: 77.1 mi. (124 km) - This is subject to change
    (I am hoping to get the final length down to around 60 miles)

    Locomotive Suggestions:
    • EMD SD40-2 - CNW Livery
    • EMD GP30 or GP50 - CNW Livery
    • GE C40-W Standard Cab - CNW Livery - (See reply #21)
    • GE AC4400CW - CNW Livery - (DLC)
    • EMD MP15DC - CNW Livery
    • Union Pacific Cane Creek Locomotives

    Union Pacific would frequently run their locomotives on CNW lines. My suggestion is to have Union Pacific locomotives added to the route if the player has the Cane Creek DLC downloaded. This will allow more locomotives for the player to use and adds to the history of the route. Conrail also occasionally ran their power on CNW lines. If a Conrail route is ever added to TSW, Conrail locos could also be added.

    [​IMG]
    Proviso Yard in the 1970s.

    Caboose Suggestions:
    • Bay Window Cabooses were the most common during the CNW days. However, cupola cabooses were also used.
    Route Description:
    (Applies to both proposal 1 and proposal 2
    as they are the same route in different eras.)

    My proposal has this route start at Proviso Yard in Chicago, run through the west suburbs, and over the Mississippi River to the ADM plant in Clinton, Iowa. CNW / Union Pacific’s Global 2 and 3 are on this route, providing intermodal operations and even ‘piggyback cars’. The steel facilities in Sterling, IL can add a new freight car to the game. Players could also load and unload these cars in the plant. The route ends at the ADM plant in Clinton, Iowa, where ethanol is produced. Loading and Unloading of cars can be added.

    This route contains dense suburbs, open farmland, trees, and rivers. All freight types run on this route.

    Because the route is over 130 miles long, it will need to be significantly shortened. In the map provided, I have marked where I think parts of the line should be modeled. I chose these based on their significance, uniqueness, and to make sure there is enough variety across the route.

    [​IMG]
    Photo: CNW 5064 Crosses the Mississippi River. Note the UP power.
    [​IMG]

    Common Freight Cars:
    (Significant car types are in bold)
    • Intermodal - (This only applies if route is set in present time. Otherwise, see TOFC)
    • Manifest
    • Oil
    • Grain - Would add older style covered hoppers to the game
    • Coal
    • Autoracks
    • TOFC (trailer on flatcar or ‘piggyback’)
    TOFC, and Manifests are usually the most common on the Geneva Sub.

    'Piggyback' Cars on The Geneva Subdivision:
    Through the 70s and 80s (going into the 90s), Chicago & Northwestern adopted the Trailer on Flatcar or 'Piggyback' as it was nicknamed. These cars were heavily used on the Geneva Subdivision, especially in the early 90s. These trailers were loaded at Proviso Yard. It wasn't until Union Pacific took over that well cars started to become more common.

    Implementing this trailer system (like how DTG did with autoracks on Oakville Subdivision), would bring a new car and feature to the game for future North American routes.
    (Trailers could be unbranded or with the CNW logo)

    Today, Union Pacific's Global II at Proviso is where these trailers were loaded onto flatcars.
    (See proviso yard link for more information)

    C&NW's 'Falcon Service':
    Around the early to mid 1970s, CNW created an express TOFC train that was ran on the Geneva Subdivision. Locomotives and trailers had a special livery to accompany it as well. I recommend this be a DLC to further expand this TOFC oriented route. However, DLC or not, this service is a must-have addition to the route.

    Because of the attachment limit, I have written a full suggestion with images on Reply #47

    [​IMG]
    (This may be a Falcon Service train, although it's too hard to tell)

    Proviso's Piggyback Plaza:
    (Yes, that was the actual name for C&NW's trailer-on-flatcar loading facility.)

    Services/Scenarios could have the player build a train by picking up these loaded flatcars at 'Piggyback Plaza', similar to the autorack services on the Oakville Subdivision. Then, the player would need to go to the other end of the yard to pick up a caboose and attach it to the train. MP15DCs were usually the locomotive used for these jobs. (see reply #25)

    I haven't been able to find many photos of this facility up close. I do have a few connections who might be able to supply some photos of the facility. I'll post these in the comments because of the attachment limit.

    This has since been removed in place of Union Pacific's Global II.

    [​IMG]
    Photo: CNW 8507 at the ADM Plant in Clinton, IA. 1995

    Proposal 2 (Union Pacific | 1995 - Present)
    Proviso IL - Clinton IA
    Total Route Length: 131 mi. (210 km)
    Shortened Length: 77.1 mi. (124 km) - This is subject to change
    (I am hoping to get the final length down to around 60 miles)

    Locomotive Suggestions:
    • GE ES44AC
    • EMD SD70ACE
    • EMD SD70MAC
    • EMD GP38-2
    Today, standard cab locos like the GP38 or SD40 are rarely seen on the Geneva Subdivision. Proposal 1 fixes this problem by allowing more variety of locos to the route. It also seems like there is more demand for a 'fallen flag' route.

    Proposals 1 and 2 both use the same track. Proposal 1’s route description also applies to Proposal 2’s.

    Because a good portion of the route is part of the UP West Line, passenger stops should be added. This can allow users to make their own passenger operations using the scenario designer.


    Proviso Yard

    Proviso Yard was built in the 1920s. At the time, it was the largest hump yard in the world. Just like Cumberland Yard in SPG, Proviso has a car shop, engine shop, refueling station, and roundhouse. These are shown in the map provided.
    Screen Shot 2020-11-29 at 3.52.50 PM.png
    Please note this map will be replaced with a more detailed one in the coming days.

    Proviso’s roundhouse is not around anymore. It was torn down sometime in the 1990s. However, Union Pacific does sometimes use the turntable to this day. Because the roundhouse was torn down just before the UP-CNW merge, it doesn't really matter if the building is added or not, although it does have some historical value to it.

    Almost everything about Proviso and its history is documented in this website. I highly recommend you check this out if you want to learn more about the yard.

    http://industrialscenery.blogspot.com/2015/12/cn-proviso-roundhouse-yard-and-freight.html
    [​IMG]
    Photo: Proviso Locomotive Refueling Station, just outside of the shops.

    Proposal 3 (Metra Union Pacific West | 1984 - Present)
    Elburn IL - Chicago OTC
    43.8 mi (70 km)

    I have removed this because I think the freight route is a much better option. Also, licensing with Metra can be difficult. If there is enough demand, I'll repost this on a separate thread.

    --------------------
    Here are some more photos along route.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    This photo is of the section of track after the yards at the ADM plant. This is where I'm thinking the route should end.
    [​IMG]
    The ADM Plant's 'Gold Dome' used in the production of ethanol.
    [​IMG]
    Clinton Railroad Bridge over the Mississippi River in Clinton, IA.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    CNW 6811 with UP 4254 in Elmhurst IL, just outside of Proviso Yard.
    [​IMG]
    Proviso Diesel Shops
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    I believe this is over the Rock River but I am not too sure. A quick look on Google Maps shows that this is very similar to a portion of the line though. CNW was big into the TOFC 'piggyback' consists.
    [​IMG]
    CNW 5055 manifest crosses over the Rock River in Nelson, IL.

    ------------
    In the end, I would really like to see Proposal 1 added to TSW. I really tried to emphasize the variety that this route offers. The change in scenery every couple of miles was key with this route.

    If Dovetail is interested in my idea, I would be happy to help provide photos, videos, and other information I’ve collected over the years. I also have the equipment to collect fresh audio samples if needed, along with the ones I have of old CNW locos when they were still in service.

    Heck, if you need me to take detailed photos of stations, I will drive to each and every one! That's how badly I want this route!

    Important:
    The same bell and horn on CNW locos aren't on class 1 railroads anymore.
    (Please don't use your existing sounds for this route or we'll have an uprising)

    CNW locos had a unique, 3 chime airhorn and their bell was a nose mounted gong bell.
    Both sounds I can provide.

    I have plenty of extra information and history if anyone is curious. I’ve got many resources I’ve collected over the years and I’d love to share them with the community.

    I plan to add more to this regarding the steel mills, ethanol plants, and intermodal TOFCs in the replies. I'm working on a more detailed map that I'll release soon.

    Here is some video footage of the Geneva Subdivision between 1988 till 1995.


    List of extra Replies:
    (I've added this section because of the attachment limit and to list some good recommendations by others)

    - #15
    - #17
    - #20
    - #21 (C40-8 Standard Cab DLC?)
    - #24 - #25 (MP15DC DLC - see Falcon Service)
    - #31 (Piggyback-Plaza)
    - #35 (Yard Maps and content discussion)
    - #43
    - #45
    - #46
    - #47 (Falcon Service DLC)
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2021
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  2. Nidhish Inumala

    Nidhish Inumala Active Member

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    maybe also the cn line through Naperville- they already have the license for CN
     
  3. ingenzone

    ingenzone Member

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    I believe it's the Freeport Subdivision. It's owned by CN but CSX, BNSF, NS, and some others run on that track. That may cause some licensing issues but I'm not sure. The Freeport would make for some great local freight operations though!
     
  4. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    There's two major licensing issues with the big North American railroads, neither of which I imagine would heavily effect the route.

    1: BNSF not being licensable overseas.
    2: Dovetail not having the license for CN's fallen flags.

    From what I can tell anything owned by UP, NS, CSX, and CP are all fair game as there's content present for all of them in TS Classic, including some of their fallen flags, also no issues with CN itself, just can't use any of their fallen flags.
     
  5. ingenzone

    ingenzone Member

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    The Freeport was formerly under Illinois Central ownership. Would that affect their licensing?
     
  6. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Only if its set in the IC era, if its CN its all good.
     
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  7. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    The No. 2 issue isn't a problem since IC it's part of CN's merge. Otherwise, we wouldn't see it as part of the new Heritage Units from CN. However, the other second issue I see as a problem is with METRA, as DTG doesn't have a license with them (Exampled from TS1's Chicago Racetrack). Other than that, it's a good proposal for the Midwest. Especially with the CNW/UP eras of freight.
     
  8. jeremydunn8

    jeremydunn8 Well-Known Member

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    I’d love a good Chicago route. Personally I would prefer the el, but I’m always gonna be in favor of anything in Chicago. Licensing is tricky there though, case and point, the TS Racetrack route.
     
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  9. ingenzone

    ingenzone Member

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    Yeah, it's a real shame BNSF won't give licensing to DTG.

    I also love the Chicago 'L.' However, I'm not sure it has it's place in TSW just yet. DTG would need to model the whole city. Accurately modeling a major city across the pond is no easy task. DTG didn't even do it with LIRR. But I would definitely purchase an L route if it was ever released.
     
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  10. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Yes, we have LIRR and Peninsula Corridor, time to fill in the map gap with a Chicago based commuter route. Despite all the licensing issues, it's a great suggestion.
     
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  11. Nidhish Inumala

    Nidhish Inumala Active Member

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    ok... I was also thinking blue, red, or pink line on CTA (Blue because it is long, pink because it does the loop and goes west, and red because it is underground). Also Metra operations on the MD-N to Fox Lake just to look at all the lakes along the way.
     
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  12. ingenzone

    ingenzone Member

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    I'm thinking about scrapping the whole Metra idea. I think it's too similar to Peninsula Corridor to be what TSW needs right now. That and the licensing issues adds to the whole Metra debacle. Union Pacific is pretty open with their licensing so I don't think getting a CNW license is too complicated.

    I also updated the post with more photos if you guys want to check them out.
     
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  13. Nidhish Inumala

    Nidhish Inumala Active Member

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    fair enough, and anyways we don't get mugh freight that is of good quality (this is coming from someone who sees CN trains by his house everyday in the Chicago area)
     
  14. jeremydunn8

    jeremydunn8 Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough. If this were an issue though, the red line would be a lot less challenging, being largely underground. My personal choice would be to have the red, brown, and purple lines, due to the transfers between them. I’d pay 50 bucks instead of the usual 30 if they’d do all 3.
     
  15. ingenzone

    ingenzone Member

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    One of the photos shows the old semaphore signals being used. I think that would be really interesting if it was implemented to TSW. (Route uses both signal types)

    I plan to add more to the thread regarding the steel mills, the ethanol plant, and CNW's 'piggyback' loading yard at Proviso. (Now UP Global II) I'm working on a more detailed map for each component that I'll release soon, and also removed the Metra idea just for simplicities sake.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2020
  16. ingenzone

    ingenzone Member

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    Hey all! I've updated the thread regarding CNW's trailer on flatcars and how it could add a new game mechanic to TSW.

    I've also found a video of different sections along the Subdivision. I highly recommend you check it out!


    There are many railyards (fairly large ones) along the route. (West Chicago, Sterling Steel Mill, etc.)

    Would you pay more for these yards to be accessible to the player? Or should they just be added, but won't serve any purpose other than looks? I would greatly appreciate anyone's opinions on this.
     
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  17. jeremydunn8

    jeremydunn8 Well-Known Member

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    It would probably come as an extra DLC, with one or two yard switcher locos with services and scenarios. I would probably buy that, provided it would be decent quality.
     
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  18. jedi247

    jedi247 Well-Known Member

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    This sounds like a great idea. There would be so much to do, from switching in the yards or at industries, to running heavy freights. Also, if we get a C&NW version, I'd like to suggest a C44-9W and maybe a dedicated switcher (a GP7/9 or something).
     
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  19. migmadmarine

    migmadmarine Member

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    Could be nice to have it set around the time of the merger, so you have both C&NW and UP locos about?
     
  20. ingenzone

    ingenzone Member

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    Yeah, I was hopping maybe Dovetail could add UP locos into the timetable if Cane Creek is downloaded. Union Pacific was always running their locos on CNW lines, even before the merge. Since around the mid 70s, Union Pacific power was a common sight on CNW trains, along with other companies as well.

    I'm not quite sure why, but I've always seen photos of CNW trains with Conrail, Southern Pacific, Illinois Central, and a bunch of other North American railroads.

    [​IMG]
     
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  21. ingenzone

    ingenzone Member

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    Glad you liked my idea! Although a C44-9w would be great to see in CNW colors, wide cab locos were fairly uncommon on the Geneva Sub until around the late 2000s. Usually it was just AC4400CW's that were wide cabs but they were almost as rare as Heritage Units today! I was thinking a C40-8 standard cab could be added instead. Some people were asking for a standard cab variant of the Dash 8 for SPG.

    I would love to see something like this in TSW.
    [​IMG]
    These things were so cool to see when they were still in service.
    [​IMG]

    Depending on the era, CNW would usually use GP9 (both high and low nose) or MP15DCs. I think adding an MP15 would probably be the best option in my opinion. Both because of the era, and because we don't have an 'actual switcher' for freight routes. Also, DTG should make the beacons operational. CNW would use beacons all the time, since they had no locos (as far as I am aware of) that had ditchlights. I've always liked the beacons on trains. They have a certain quirky, characteristic quality to them. Definitely a blast to the past to an older era of American railroading.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2021
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  22. steammaster4449

    steammaster4449 Well-Known Member

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    Well this rather detailed suggestion has my support. Good on ya my friend.
     
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  23. peterg1002612

    peterg1002612 Member

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    love to see in the union pacific era
     
  24. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    This sounds like an amazing route idea!

    The standard cab Dash 8 wouldn't be too hard to do as they have a base model they can work off of. They'd just need to redo the cab and the nose. Same with the MP15DC. They have an MP15DC model they can work off of, it would just need to be backdated and CNW'ized.
     
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  25. ingenzone

    ingenzone Member

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    Haha CNW'izing would mean a lot of weathering! CNW switchers were very dirty all of the time.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I also recently noticed that most of these switchers had all-weather / bay-windows on the engineer's side. CNW GP50s had winterization hatches as well. I guess CNW always had some funny additions to their locomotives that weren't completely necessary. CNW had these red colored sun visors in their SD40-2s and some other locos as well. And we can't forget about the gong bells!
     
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  26. Nidhish Inumala

    Nidhish Inumala Active Member

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    I would also like the CN line going north
     
  27. ingenzone

    ingenzone Member

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    I did some research on the CN line you liked. Unfortunately, it seems like most of CN's yards are actually owned by BNSF, and we all know that debacle. Although the line is mostly CN owned, some portions of that line cross with Canadian Pacific, BNSF, and at one time, Union Pacific. Unfortunately, I think licensing would become a nightmare, if even possible. I don't think we'll see CN as the Chicago route in TSW.
     
  28. Nidhish Inumala

    Nidhish Inumala Active Member

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    I see... that is fine- I just wanted to see the line that goes right by my house
     
  29. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    If the equipment in use is CN it shouldn't matter, you don't need licensing for things like track plan or buildings, it would just mean a few buildings not having branding.
     
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  30. Nidhish Inumala

    Nidhish Inumala Active Member

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    I think it's fine if some buildings aren't branded- it is nice when it is though
     
  31. ingenzone

    ingenzone Member

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    I've made another update to the thread! This time, I started discussing CNW's 'Piggyback Plaza'. (Yes, that's the actual name they gave it) I'm in the process of finding photos of this facility. I have a few connections who might be able to supply photos of Piggyback Plaza. I'll post these in the comments because of the attachment limit.

    Here's the only photo I've got so far:
    [​IMG]

    I've also added a little to my suggestion of shortening the route by removing some 'uninteresting' parts to the route. I'm hoping this could fix the problem of TSW's routes feeling unfinished. Please let me know what you think!

    I'm working on an updated map specifying where parts of the route should be removed. (i.e. remove UP Global III if set in CNW era)
     
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  32. Nidhish Inumala

    Nidhish Inumala Active Member

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    moovitapp.com has good transit data for many cities- if they want the "l" or Metra they can find some stuff there
     
  33. Nidhish Inumala

    Nidhish Inumala Active Member

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    I would also like a Lake Shore Ltd
     
  34. Nidhish Inumala

    Nidhish Inumala Active Member

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    I could also do with the BNSF line between RTE 59 and US RTE 30 (in the parallel section by Naperville and Plainfield by Commissioners Park that is around where I have seen CN trains)
     
  35. ingenzone

    ingenzone Member

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    I have finally mapped out some of the yards and other railroad facilities along the route.

    Please check out the 'poll' I added at the bottom. Feedback is greatly appreciated.

    Some of these are labeled 'Optional Inclusion'. This is because I feel like DTG will not model a route that has massive amounts of track that is player controlled (switches, etc.). There are two options that can solve this.

    Option 1: Have these yards modeled, although inaccessible to the player.
    Option 2: If there is enough support, DTG could model every facility/yard, rising the price of the route. (or a DLC)

    I made this post with the DTG staff in mind. I know how difficult it is to pull a route like this off, so I tried to give as many options for them as possible, while retaining the route's feel of being complete.


    West Chicago Yard - Optional Inclusion Screen Shot 2020-12-08 at 11.00.11 AM.png If this is set in the CNW era, the West Chicago Yard can be slightly 'downgraded.' This means some parts of the track will not be accessible to the player, or modeled at all. This can help reduce the amount of work needed for the route, yet still retaining that 'finished feel' that is missing from the other routes already in the game. Historically, West Chicago Yard was not as built-up or busy as it is today. Completely modeling the yard is not necessary if it is set during the CNW era.

    Sterling Steel Facilities - DLC or Optional Inclusion
    Screen Shot 2020-12-08 at 10.59.43 AM.png

    Closer view of the main facility.

    Screen Shot 2020-12-08 at 10.59.58 AM.png Realistically, the Sterling Steel Facilities could simply be modeled, yet the player will not be able to access the track. However, DTG could have the option to make this a DLC in the future. Adding a new loco (most likely a GP-9r) and access to the plant.

    ADM Plant - Must Include Majority

    Because the ADM Plant is the 'final destination' of the route, most of the yard and facilities there should be modeled. Switching jobs like transferring cars from the three different yards or loading and unloading materials for the production of ethanol are some services I had in mind.

    I haven't gotten around to finishing the track plan for the ADM plant. I'll release the updated maps when I create another post regarding the entirety of the plant.

    Part 1 (Main Facilities): Screen Shot 2020-12-08 at 10.58.54 AM.png
    Part 2 (Classification Yard and End-of-Line): Screen Shot 2020-12-08 at 10.59.27 AM.png
    I would really appreciate your suggestions and feedback on how DTG should approach modeling this route. Because I can't add another poll, please just submit your answers/suggestions in the replies. If there are anyone outside of US/Canada, I would greatly appreciate an 'outside' opinion on how much content should be in this route.

    - Should ALL yards and facilities be modeled, AND be accessible to the player?
    or
    - Should these not be accessible or require a DLC be done instead?
    or
    - Other suggestion.

    I guess these can be pretty much best answered by a DTG staff member, although it is extremely unlikely they are reading this.
     
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  36. Nidhish Inumala

    Nidhish Inumala Active Member

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    All yards please, lol but it has enough views and activity that a staff member has got to see it eventually. They could also convert the Chicago Racetrack route from TSXX
     
  37. Nidhish Inumala

    Nidhish Inumala Active Member

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    They have also got Caltrain F40PH and MP36PH Locos that can be converted over to a Metra style (I want Metra if that isn't obvious already) Also, could you please tell me where you got this info from- I want to read a bit more about (I do live in the Chicago Area)
     
  38. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    They cannot, 1st Dovetail didn't make that route, 2nd, the BNSF licensing issue.
     
  39. Nidhish Inumala

    Nidhish Inumala Active Member

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    Ah, I see
     
  40. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    If DTG made the CN line, it wouldn't be the first time they've changed the ownership of a line. Cajon Pass is owned by BNSF (formerly by ATSF). When they made the Cajon Pass route for TS, there was no BNSF content (due to licensing), it was all UP locos and UP branded rolling stock.
     
  41. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    All yards, all accessible please. Remeber what happened when OSD came out and people realized you couldn't access all the modeled track?
     
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  42. steammaster4449

    steammaster4449 Well-Known Member

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    I gotta go with all yards and tracks being modeled and player accessible.
     
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  43. ingenzone

    ingenzone Member

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    That's exactly what I was trying to prevent. We really need a freight route where there is many places to explore. If DTG decides it should be a DLC, so be it, as long as we can expand routes if we so wish.

    I think it all comes down to if DTG thinks it's worth the effort. My route suggestion is intended to be as 'DTG friendly' as possible, allowing them to have enough choices for this single route. (Basically a pick and choose situation)
     
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  44. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    That makes sense, but my favorite routes are ones that have lots of yard to explore and use. I have played almost exclusively SPG, and I have only done one mainline service. Nearly all my time is spend in the Cumberland Terminal.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2020
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  45. ingenzone

    ingenzone Member

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    I really like the idea of 'exploring' you mentioned. Having multiple places along the route where you could explore is something I would really like to see. I guess DTG tries to do this with their collectables, but I'd rather explore while in a service or scenario. Bringing back to my suggestion, there could be many places to explore in the multiple yards along the Geneva Sub. There are also many small facilities like the quarry in Elmhurst, IL, or the grain elevator in Nelson, IL. (I'll probably discuss these smaller facilities and how they could be implemented in a separate comment.)

    This route can be made in a way that some services could have the player go along the mainline while dropping parts of their train off along the route, much like a local freight. These operations do happen, although not as frequent as local freights.

    I doubt that DTG will add more to OSD, so this route could do a good job at 'filling the gaps' missing on OSD, SPG, and even Peninsula Corridor.
     
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  46. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I really enjoy the TS workshop scenarios that utilize the branches and spurs on routes that were put there for scenery. There are some great places to explore. One I can name is M-WPB. It has a detailed spur hidden from the mainline, and is really cool. I wish they had some of that in TSW2. It would have been cool if they modelled the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad interchange on SPG. That would have added a short local service, and a small branch off the main to explore.
     
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  47. ingenzone

    ingenzone Member

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    Chicago & NorthWestern's 'Falcon Service': (DLC)
    The Falcon Service was a special, express TOFC freight train that ran along the Geneva Subdivision. This would mainly originate at Proviso and run across the midwest to various other terminals. Locomotives and trailers had their own special livery. Adding this would further expand this TOFC oriented route. Players could do a series of scenarios, starting with building the train using a switcher. A second scenario then has the player run the train across the route, ending at Clinton.

    These trains often consisted of three locomotives that were either lead by an SD40-2 in the Falcon Service livery, or three fresh GP50s in their 'Safety Yellow' livery.

    In simpler form:
    Consist 1: SD40-2 - Other SD unit - GP50
    Consist 2: GP50 - GP50 - GP50


    Here are a few examples:
    [​IMG]
    This slide was taken in the mid to late 70s coming out of Wood Street Yard. (CNW's other Falcon Service Yard)
    (Note the special Liveries)


    [​IMG]
    Falcon Service lead by 3 brand-new GP50s.

    [​IMG]
    Taken in 1985 at Elmhurst, IL. A Falcon Service livery SD40-2 leads a manifest back to Proviso to be used for the next Falcon Service.

    Falcon Service Livery on a Trailer:
    [​IMG]

    Falcon Service Livery on an SD40-2:
    [​IMG]

    I don't know why I love this livery so much. Maybe it's the font or the thin white stripe. What ever it is, this has got to be one of my favorite 'fallen flag' railroad liveries I've ever seen.

    I feel like this would make a good DLC. It adds a good amount of content to the route, yet it does not feel forced. To elaborate, players can still run TOFC trains without purchasing the Falcon Service DLC. However, the DLC could add more to the TOFC game mechanics, adding a switcher, a new SD40-2 livery, and a new trailer livery. If players want to try out TOFC operations, they can do so without purchasing the DLC. However, if they want more from it, they can purchase the Falcon Service. Isn't that what DLCs are for?

     
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  48. ingenzone

    ingenzone Member

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    Hey all!

    I have made a more complete overview of the various types of rail cars that would come with the route.

    (Significant car types are marked in bold. New car types are italicized)
    • Trailer on Flatcar (TOFC - 'Piggyback') - See Falcon Service
    [​IMG]
    Here is a Falcon Service train on the Geneva Subdivision, lead by three brand new GP50s.

    • Covered Hoppers - Older Style - See photo below for examples.
    [​IMG]
    These and 70 ton hoppers were the most common on the Geneva Sub. There is some DLC potential with the various types, similar to how DTG did the CSX C40-8 and the addition of a new hopper type.

    • Coal - Long coal trains from Wisconsin and even Canada would go through Proviso Yard and sent across the United States.
    • Autoracks - These would usually originate from West Chicago Yard. Operations would be similar to the ones on OSD.
    • Oil - These would be a good addition, as they are needed in the production of Ethanol at the ADM plant in Clinton, IA.
    [​IMG]
    The APM Plant at Clinton, IA. - Circa 1990. Note the older style of covered hoppers.
    • Manifests - Manifests were very common on the Geneva Subdivision. If DTG got licensing for all Union Pacific 'Fallen Flag' railroads, we could get added realism with boxcars under different railroad names. These include, but are not limited to: CNW, Union Pacific, Southern Pacific, Rio Grande, Missouri Pacific, etc. With CNW and UP being the most common. There is also room for the addition of new types of boxcars in the future as well.
    This route has a lot of potential with DLCs. There are many types of cars and locomotives that could be added through a DLC, while still making the route have that 'completed feel'.

    As of 12/27/20, no new additions have been made to the original post. I will continue to post updates and revisions on all posts and replies.
     
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  49. ingenzone

    ingenzone Member

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    It's been a while since there was a lot of action on this thread, so I've made a list of some of the locomotives I had in mind for the route. I'll list the core/important locos and DLCs as well. This list will be spread across multiple replies due photos sometimes not appearing.

    - Core Locomotives -

    1) EMD SD40-2
    [​IMG]

    I don't think anyone can get enough of an SD40-2. These were the backbone of CNW, making up the majority of their fleet in the 1970s-1990s. Chicago & Northwestern's units are fairly unique with details such as strobes, a three chime horn, red sun visors, and of course, the gong bell, just to name a few. A new livery for the SD40-2 can be included in the Falcon Service DLC. (See reply #47)

    2) EMD GP50
    [​IMG]

    The EMD GP50 is another common locomotive on the Geneva Subdivision. These units were known for their distinct winterization hatch at the top, and commonly were used on long trailer-on-flatcar trains.

    3) C40-8 - Standard Cab
    [​IMG]

    It seems like there has been a lot of desire for a standard cab variant of the C40-8, so the CNW version could fill that gap. These were not as common as EMD units on the Geneva Subdivision, but could still add to the overall route. These units would often lead long coal trains from Wisconsin to Iowa and onward.

     
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  50. ingenzone

    ingenzone Member

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    (2/2) This list covers some locomotives that would work best with a DLC. Feel free to add any comments or suggestions of other locomotives that could be added!

    - DLC Locomotives -



    1) EMD MP15DC
    [​IMG]

    These units were common on the Geneva Subdivision, usually building trailer-on-flatcar trains and even helping long distance freights. I have already discussed how de-modernizing this could work. Adding the MP15 in a freight route could really help fill what was lacking in Peninsula Corridor (and NEC).

    2) EMD GP30
    [​IMG]

    Although the GP30 wasn't very common on CNW lines, the unique appearance could add some variety to the game. These units were usually used for short manifests, or replacing a faulty unit.

    3) GE AC4400CW
    [​IMG]

    The AC4400 was one of (if not) the last units CNW ever purchased before merging with Union Pacific in 1995. These became fairly common for a short period on the Geneva Sub. This loco should only be added if other DLCs for the route have already been made, just to avoid routes being too similar to each other.

    --
    That concludes my list of locomotives I had in mind for the route. I would greatly appreciate any suggestions for other locomotives in the replies.
     
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