Rush Hour Passengers Not Coming To Bakerloo Or Koln-aachen???

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by bart2day, Aug 13, 2021.

  1. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2018
    Messages:
    582
    Likes Received:
    1,715
    So I've just seen on another thread that it has been confirmed on Discord that the Bakerloo line and Koln-Aachen will not be getting the new Rush Hour passenger system with increased density and paletisation.

    As a reminder, this is what it says on the Rush Hour FAQ:

    "Rush hour in Train Sim World 2 means more passengers on the platforms during peak hours and increased activity at each station. For launch the passenger upgrade will be exclusive to the routes included in the Rush Hour Add-On, as well as the Bakerloo Line and Schnellfahrstrecke Köln-Aachen."

    And this is what Matt said in the Rush Hour Q&A on the 23rd July while playing the Bakerloo line:

    "This version includes all of Adams Teams improvements apart from the Rush Hour passenger system. That will come with the Rush Hour update."

    Is now appears these routes are now not getting this upgrade but in fact simply passengers stepping as opposed to sliding up and down stairs which Matt said in the same stream would apply to all routes as it was in the "core". It will not include the new passenger system and if this is true then the two statements above are flat out UNTRUTHS from DTG. I have never accused them of lying before and often give them the benefit of the doubt but if this is true then it is a big disappointment and frankly extremely misleading. Urgent clarification would be appreciated.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2021
    • Like Like x 9
  2. FeralKitty

    FeralKitty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2020
    Messages:
    405
    Likes Received:
    800
    I assume this means not getting it (at launch), rather than never getting it.

    If so, the Core update and Rush Hour has been complex enough, and it’s easy to understand why base route passenger density and palletization might have slipped, considering the remaining work that needs to be finished for Rush Hour routes.
     
  3. 4-COR

    4-COR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2019
    Messages:
    357
    Likes Received:
    744
    we may still only have trains every half an hour on the bakerloo and platforms clipping into the train at every station but boy am i excited to see passengers walk down some stairs...
     
    • Like Like x 4
  4. CrAzZyKiLLa

    CrAzZyKiLLa Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2018
    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    179
    for context
     

    Attached Files:

    • Helpful Helpful x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2019
    Messages:
    1,532
    Likes Received:
    4,214
    And here I was looking forward to testing the new passengers without having to buy the season ticket...
     
    • Like Like x 6
  6. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    1,581
    Likes Received:
    2,035
    It was never promised till the announcement of the season ticket and the updated price. So complexity does not impress me a lot. It may be they forgot to mention it in the patch notes or they will release it as a separate update in the context of the Summer Ticket at a later moment. This needs some clarification at least.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  7. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2018
    Messages:
    582
    Likes Received:
    1,715
    Fair point about their workload but then why announce it as late as they did on 22nd July when they must have known it wasn't going to be in in time. Why announce it as coming 'at launch'?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. FeralKitty

    FeralKitty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2020
    Messages:
    405
    Likes Received:
    800
    Mistakes happen. Perhaps the person who handled the announcement didn't know it had to be delayed?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    5,171
    Likes Received:
    7,381
    I think, bart2day , that there's rather a difference between a lie and a broken promise. A broken promise only rises to the level of a lie if the promisor at the time he makes it has no intention of fulfilling it. In this case I am willing to believe as of July 22 DTG intended to do so, but for whatever reason that has not proved possible.
     
    • Like Like x 8
    • Helpful Helpful x 2
  10. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2018
    Messages:
    943
    Likes Received:
    632
    clipping has been fixed from what the update notes say
     
  11. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Community Manager Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2020
    Messages:
    1,308
    Likes Received:
    8,744
    I have just answered the same question in a similar thread so I will post my reply in here too.

    That information on the FAQ's is incorrect and will need to be updated.
    I have checked with the preservation crew and I can 100% confirm that SKA and BKL will not be receiving the extensive passenger update that includes new outfits, increased density and passenger dioramas. They will get the updated walking animations.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 2
  12. anarchy99

    anarchy99 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2021
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    65
    Hi Nat please could you clarify is this just at launch or no plan for them to ever receive the extensive passenger update?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Community Manager Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2020
    Messages:
    1,308
    Likes Received:
    8,744
    This is just for launch. The plan is to add the updated passenger features to the preserved collection. But there is no firm timeline for when you can expect it yet.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 8
    • Like Like x 2
  14. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2019
    Messages:
    2,989
    Likes Received:
    3,393
    This is not the only such case. All these mistakes should be corrected.
     
    • Like Like x 8
  15. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2018
    Messages:
    943
    Likes Received:
    632
    what are the other cases?
     
  16. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2019
    Messages:
    2,989
    Likes Received:
    3,393
    Read the product descriptions on Steam and make notes (to find out).
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2021
  17. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    5,171
    Likes Received:
    7,381
    What Nat has posted conforms to my recollection of what Matt or Sam said in a stream: that the passenger upgrade applied to the new routes, only. I had never seen, or didn't remember, the erroneous FAQ inclusion of Bakerloo and SKA. (While we're on the topic of base route upgrades, Sand Patch obviously isn't a passenger route, but would still be improved by dioramas of yard workers)
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  18. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2018
    Messages:
    582
    Likes Received:
    1,715
    Very disappointing that yet another miscommunication has occurred, especially after the very recent Riesa-Dresden debacle. It's not just the FAQs that need updating. It's advertised prominently on the main page too:

    Screenshot (464).png
     
    • Like Like x 13
  19. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2020
    Messages:
    538
    Likes Received:
    1,143
    It isn't a mistake on the website, the plans have been scaled back again and they have tried to avoid announcing it (like the branches). It is quite apparent from the last few weeks and the Boston streams that everything around RH is crunched and they are trying desparately to just get something out this summer that will meet the basic outline of the Rush Hour plan (3 routes: 1 US, 1 UK and 1 DE). Everywhere you look there are things that will come later, in a further patch, after the preservation crew get round to it or not at all. Its disappointing, I always encourage people to under-promise and over-deliver because this, the opposite, never goes down well.
     
    • Like Like x 26
  20. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    5,171
    Likes Received:
    7,381
    Are you calling Natalie a liar?

    Again, I clearly recall Matt or Sam saying on a long-ago stream that the passenger system at launch would only apply to the new routes.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  21. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2019
    Messages:
    2,989
    Likes Received:
    3,393
    I'm afraid more people will read the wrong product descriptions and promotional material than will see these ancient streams :D

    PS It may not be a deliberate act, but I am also irritated by this mess /o\
     
    • Like Like x 8
  22. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2020
    Messages:
    538
    Likes Received:
    1,143
    • Like Like x 7
  23. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,811
    Likes Received:
    3,314
    People have a perfect right to be annoyed. It is indeed mentioned in several places on the website and quite recently, so it's not just the FAQ that is "incorrect". We can be kind and call it a " communication error ", but this may be another case of " right hand, left hand".
    Of course it's not a game breaker and I'm sure this feature will be added soon enough. I'm more annoyed about things like the missing cruise control in the ACS 64 than passenger diversity or PIS screens which I barely notice in game. It's really a shame that this wonderful Siemens loco is incomplete. I hope at least they have modeled the regenerative braking, another important feature of this loco.
     
    • Like Like x 8
  24. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,811
    Likes Received:
    3,314
    Please! Calm yourself! No-one is doing that, for goodness sake.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2021
    • Like Like x 11
  25. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    1,581
    Likes Received:
    2,035
    Thank you for clarifying this. But it is not just a small issue. DTG made a big announcement with a lot of disappointing news for us. We have been told explicitly that Bakerloo and SKA would get to the updated passenger system. This was a big surprise and now you tell us this is incorrect? I do not blame you personally but it is not very good for the already not very good reputation DTG has. Some people are even thinking not all Rush Hour Routes will actually be published (I am not one of them). How difficult can it be that competent people check these publications? Are you knowing what you are doing? It took months before RH was announced. I still remember all apologies because there was no news again. Then we got the message, including a reasonable amount of details and the, shortly before release it all seems to change and now fairly big changes again. This is not good. The same thing is for bugs that are not fixed. We are still waiting for part 2 of the tunnel lighting issue for SEH, a fair amount of issues with the BR363 and I can go on for a long time. Complaining seems not to help a lot and I think this really must change.
     
    • Like Like x 16
  26. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Community Manager Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2020
    Messages:
    1,308
    Likes Received:
    8,744
    You have reason to be frustrated and disappointed by this news. And I agree that this is not something small. The details we share with you on streams and on the FAQ's should be reliable, and lately that hasn't been the case with many things changing.

    I am looking into how this error was made, and why it wasn't communicated better internally.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  27. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    1,465
    Likes Received:
    1,786
    I would envisage Rush hour will be deemed "the new stuff only" thus making it accurate
    Play the game :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  28. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Messages:
    4,135
    Likes Received:
    10,290
    What a pickle.
     
    • Like Like x 11
  29. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Community Manager Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2020
    Messages:
    1,308
    Likes Received:
    8,744
    That's one way to describe it.
     
    • Like Like x 9
  30. FeralKitty

    FeralKitty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2020
    Messages:
    405
    Likes Received:
    800
    Being annoyed is a choice a person makes, not a right (or entitlement).
     
    • Like Like x 6
  31. 4-COR

    4-COR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2019
    Messages:
    357
    Likes Received:
    744
    bakerclip.jpg hopefully we won't have anymore of this
     
  32. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2018
    Messages:
    943
    Likes Received:
    632
    well again with what the patch notes have said it will be
     
  33. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2019
    Messages:
    1,532
    Likes Received:
    4,214
    But if we happily accept everything, we can be served sub-par products. Look how movie quality degraded since fandoms don't allow critique.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  34. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Messages:
    925
    Likes Received:
    5,068
    I gotta hold my hand up to this one i'm afraid, I dropped the ball on this bit. I could talk about why this probably got missed, but ultimately it really doesn't matter, we didn't meet expectations or promises and that's bad and on me.

    We'll get it sorted, it's always been the plan to do the upgrade for the Koln and Bakerloo routes, and will continue to be so, just not in the timeframe we'd originally said. We'll let you know asap once we have confirmed it's done.

    Matt.
     
    • Like Like x 16
    • Helpful Helpful x 6
  35. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    4,180
    Likes Received:
    4,832
    On the plus side, the upgraded passengers for bkl and koln aachen will come at a later date :). This mistake though reminds me of the BRD Branch line debacle. A shame that a similar mistake happened again
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
  36. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2020
    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    296
    Since no further details were shared about what led to this situation, I can see these most likely causes:

    1. An error in planning which led to setting unrealistic timelines for development
    2. A business decision to only offer Rush hour content in a separate pack and not via base game routes to generate sales
    3. A combination of both: nr. 1 led to nr. 2 (which takes DTG to a happy end)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  37. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2019
    Messages:
    982
    Likes Received:
    458
    2022.8.19?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  38. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2018
    Messages:
    943
    Likes Received:
    632
    ?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  39. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2018
    Messages:
    943
    Likes Received:
    632
    What do you by this as I think no one knows what you mean
     
    • Like Like x 1
  40. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    1,465
    Likes Received:
    1,786
    Probably ,means rush hour will be here next year instead
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2021
    • Like Like x 4
  41. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    5,171
    Likes Received:
    7,381
    There are other ways, but you wouldn't deem them appropriate on a family forum. ;)
     
  42. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    2,248
    Likes Received:
    10,134
    There seems to be an increasing amount of 'internal miscommunication' going on, which is not only bad, but it also seems things are getting scaled back and/or delayed.

    Regarding the recent patch notes posted, is that ALL of the fixes which will be coming, or are there some things which aren't listed, but are coming/fixed?
     
    • Like Like x 8
  43. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2018
    Messages:
    950
    Likes Received:
    1,483
    I thought your voice seemed deeper on the last stream. :)
     
  44. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2020
    Messages:
    420
    Likes Received:
    741
    Oh well nothing unusual here same old same old. The changes to what we were originally promoted still seem to continue on, I still am waiting for the BML to be cut back at some point before release.

    I have no confidence in DTG giving what they say will come with their products anymore, and all the misinformation is not helping to gain any trust with me.

    I've already stopped reading the articles and watching the streams, as I can't believe what they say on them anymore.

    If a DLC sounds interesting to me I will purchase it with no expectations anymore. Just like it was back when they didn't give us any info at all as that seems to me a better way than it is today.

    Transparency does not work if you are always misinforming people.
     
    • Like Like x 9
  45. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2019
    Messages:
    472
    Likes Received:
    1,220
    These past few weeks undoubtedly have been very...erm... interesting to witness. While the situation with the Bakerloo and SKA passenger upgrades isn't really too bad (better late than never I suppose), time and time again we see this same narrative of DTG overpromising certain features or aspects, only for it to be stagnated in some way shape or form.

    Guys, this isn't some sort of recent development that happened this year with SEHS, or Arosa, or Hamburg - Lubeck. No, this narrative has been going on throughout the entirety of TSW's existence. It's a damn shame really because this game allows for soo many amazing possibilities, and yet we only have a fraction of what could be achievable.

    It's not all downhill, however. Although this level of transparency within DTG has allowed for issues like this to occur, I am still convinced that it's worth all the effort. There's more interaction and feedback than ever before, and we have indeed seen community feedback influencing the outcome of some DLCs. Not much, mind you, but it's a start.
    The community roadmap has very clearly demonstrated how game development can be a tricky beast to manage. Communication seems to be a large factor in all of the recent uproar, and it's no surprise really. It's nothing more than a mere consequence of transparency, but I don't believe it has to be this way.
    Communication within DTG really needs to be optimized. There is way too much uncertainty about when things will release, or if they're on some list, or whatever.
    It's not a good look when an annoying bug takes several months to be rectified, when the fix for it is going around and around in circles in development hell, just waiting to be released.
    'Internal Miscommunication' is not something we customers should have to hear time and time again when we ask for why something went wrong.

    DTG needs to do a better job at handling something as fragile as community expectations, and that starts with improving and optimizing communication within and throughout.
    It won't ever be perfect, but these changes can go a long way.
     
    • Like Like x 10
  46. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2020
    Messages:
    420
    Likes Received:
    741
    Well here you go its still up on the FAQ that at launch SKA and BKL will get them. Again can't trust the trusted source.

    Screenshot_20210815-214048_Chrome.jpg
     
    • Like Like x 3
  47. Stephen Crofts

    Stephen Crofts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2020
    Messages:
    620
    Likes Received:
    650
    There are definitely major internal comms issues. We often hear Adam telling us he doesn’t know anything about the publishing team’s policies for his own team’s work! That’s not a normal situation. Either that or comments like that are all that can be tolerably put out into the public domain…. Which is even more concerning.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  48. thundergaming11

    thundergaming11 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2020
    Messages:
    260
    Likes Received:
    528
    Sounds like they're just putting too much on the plate for themselves atm.
     
  49. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    2,248
    Likes Received:
    10,134
    From the day Rush Hour and it’s associated features were announced, I knew it wasn’t going to go plain sailing from their past experiences. Just look at the issues we have already with DLCs. Creating three routes within a limited time period was always going to be a struggle.

    So far we’ve had:
    - Cut back route(s)
    - Dubious scenery
    - Features not coming out at release to the routes initially advertised
    - Price increases

    In my opinion they were too ambitious, which has led to overpromising and under delivering yet again.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  50. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2020
    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    296
    The typical symptoms of an entity that is alone in its field.
    If there was competition they would arguably care more about community feedback but they would definitely have cared more about losing to the competitors.
     
    • Like Like x 4

Share This Page