PlayStation Sam Hit The Nail On The Head With Random Events

Discussion in 'Train Sim World Discussion' started by Samo1, Feb 10, 2021.

  1. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    I would sooner three journeys (morning, afternoon and evening) with RANDOM events than 200 timetables that are basically clones of each other, done once and seen it all, random runs should be an absolute focus in my opinion, you can run timetables with your eyes closed if you know signals are always going to be green because they were green last time, there is no real challenge or fun, we should be kept on our toes with every single drive and be made to stay focused, after all... it’s a simulation
     
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  2. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member

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    I think this would have to be an option. Some of us would enjoy it a lot, others would be tearing their hair out if they lost points for being late. I think it would be a great addition to immersion.
     
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  3. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I agree that random incidents should be an option, but there are also people who want to play a 20 minute scenario and not have it take 40 due to a broken down train, so that "toggle disaster" option becomes a thing

    The points system would have to be amended to allow for the incident in hand, something along the lines of an "unavoidable delay addition" to allow for the time lost due to the interruption. Maybe that could be built into the scenario creation tool when making the interruption.
     
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  4. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    I would get rid of the pointless (pun intended) points system, is it really important? ok it might be to some, Radom events must be the future to keep routes fresh
     
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  5. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    I want my points
     
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  6. flickyhecky

    flickyhecky Active Member

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    It's like groundhog Day!
     
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  7. JZJ90

    JZJ90 Active Member

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    I will admit that although the points aren't actually redeemable for anything, I do like that they serve as an indication of how well I am doing on a run. Plus who doesn't feel just a little bit better when they finish an hour or so run and the little gold medal pops up!
     
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  8. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    As important to some as whether the fence next to the line is 6 foot or 8 foot tall, or whether the ballast is grey/pink or brown...
     
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  9. JonnE

    JonnE Well-Known Member

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    I also think this has a lot of potential and definetely would increase the replay value to a enormous extent.

    In my opinion it should be more difficult to create and implement those events generally than dealing with it later.
    A simple on/oft toggle would do the trick or a copied slider from the weather settings if so much detail would be needed.

    I wouldn't change much in AP scores for now because if someone is after a gold medal or a maximum score I assume he/ she would turn the random events off anyway.

    For a proper integration in AP points I would like to see a more general rework there as well (like more AP points if safety systems are activated) but I think most of us would agree that TSW has more severe issues than that at the moment.
     
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  10. Richard CZE

    Richard CZE Well-Known Member

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    Interesting would be the planned events that could be turned on. Bridge repair, track replacement, scheduled maintenance. Trains would run on one track. However, this would require modifications to the 24h mode and that would be a lot of work.
    bahnbau_erhaltungsstopfarbeiten-za-übr-îeh-cz.jpg
     
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  11. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Random events are something that a majority of players want according to the winter survey. I do agree that they should come because let's face it, driving a train from point a to b doesn't always run smoothly. Things like track works causing you to have to slow your train down, train delays maybe that are cause by a sick passenger or doors getting stuck etc. Random events would keep routes feel fresh so I support the idea.
     
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  12. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I agree that the points system is pretty useless because their is no incentive to earn points. A virtual medal does not feel rewarding to me at all.
     
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  13. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I think that the gist of what Sam was saying was NOT that there would be major, service-wrecking disasters like trees across the line or breakdowns, but rather make the AI traffic not run with such clockwork precision, so that you might one time have all greens and another time get stuck behind an AI train running behind schedule.
     
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  14. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I personally would love to have a ai train breakdown and have to wait for a work train to pick up the stranded train so we can continue our journey but that's just me
     
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  15. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    There you would be talking scenario, not timetable randomization.
     
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  16. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    And I (like tallboy7648 it seems) disagree. I would love to have to some major interruptions or something that cancels a service etc, I get they don't want to show failed or broken trains but GWE has a service showing rescue anyway
    If you really wanted to you could have a randomised thunderbird service!
     
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  17. Snek

    Snek Well-Known Member

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    That's why routes with freight are better imo. Freight services on the line are already a bit random and add some dynamics

    Also keep in mind that most runs in real life are uneventful like those in game, so making it too frequent would be unrealistic too.
     
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  18. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    There is one journey out of Paddington that needs you to stop at a red for a freight train if you go too quickly...

    There is the scenario in LGV where the track is closed and you get switch track...

    I can see why randomisation of issues would cause even more issues...like the one where peeps are quite rightly complaining that they have found an oncoming train in the tunnel. The board would be up in arms...because of the unintended consequence of some random event. Not being able to get into a station because the slow train in front has actually terminated or something.

    But then that could well be reality. It probably does happen.

    Whilst frustrating, I probably like the idea of having to crawl along behind yellows because the train in front is limping.

    Or maybe our train as a malfunction that only allows you to go 30mph...

    I dont know...but sometimes random/planned interesting features might give it a spice of life into a dead route?

    D
     
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  19. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    random events = ultra-high priority for this game
     
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  20. Alexandra

    Alexandra Active Member

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    In most respects, the points system is a fatuous joke. For one thing, the dramatic 'passenger service bias': Contrast an hour's run on the Bakerloo with an hour hauling say, ca. 4,000 metric tons of coal, across Bavaria stopping and starting for reds on challenging grades for a fraction of the points.

    But, the points and linked levels provide a rough measure of time spent and can tell you that at least against these measures, 'I did better (or less well) than I did the last time I ran this route'. Relative points between different routes and different engines provide a bit of information and Gold Medals vs. Silver or Brass suggest one is getting some things right.

    Instead of abolishing the point sytem entirely, perhaps some thought might be given to making it a bit more rational.

    I should add, I suppose, that I don't favor publishing scores and rankings -- we all enjoy this game for different reasons and I'd like to think we can keep it that way.
     
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  21. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Creative Director Staff Member

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    As a counterpoint (pun unintended) you can only really compare point earnings against other runs under the same situation. If a freight run caps out at 5,000 points and a passenger run caps at 12,000 that doesn't really matter - you still have a benchmark to evaluate future runs under the same environment.

    That said, the points system would benefit from an overhaul to reward better and more complicated operation. If nothing else, earning additional points when running with safety systems enabled.
     
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  22. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    Extra points for safety systems would certainly be an improvement, even more for no hud? and while I know under the present system you can’t actually lose points, I think an “expert” mode with safety systems could actually deduct points for getting it wrong and bringing the train to a juddering halt, that would focus the mind even more, I realise that would not be for all players but the points system as it stands is very basic and adds very little to the overall experience
     
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  23. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    100% this and I heard you saying that to Matt a couple of times as well.
    Adding to this, I also feel that the low scores for freight could be improved as well, you usually take around the same time as passenger services but only get a small amount of points in comparison.

    Somehow this makes me feeling that freight runs are less "worthy" so to say and it becomes way harder to level up your routes and locos compared to passenger runs.
     
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  24. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Keeping within a percentage of the speed
    Stopping within given range at a station (less important for sidings)
    Acceleration and deceleration curves (no slapping it in power setting four from a standing start)

    Basically all the rules you broke on the Bakerloo Challenge :D
     
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  25. Alexandra

    Alexandra Active Member

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    Hopefully, anyone working on the revision will bear in mind that in addition to those of us who seek ultimate realism there are plenty of people who just like trains -- let's not frighten off the latter group or make them feel they don't belong here ;)
     
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  26. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    Agree, the game should be assessable to novices/fun players and those that need an extra challenge as well, it can’t be a one fit all though
     
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  27. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    But that could happen in a timetable service in reality. I remember being on the LIRR a few a years ago and a train in front of mines broke down so we was stuck for over an hour until a work train pulled the train away. These things do happen. Not frequently of course. Maybe they can give the player the option to have a train break down and we would have to wait for a work train to pull it away
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2021
  28. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    It absolutely CAN be a one size fits all if the people doing the bits that make a difference program the difficulty in

    I did some playtesting at DTG and suggested a concept similar to that in Gran Turismo where you start off as a newbie beginner and through progression end up mastering things, in this case things like stopping distances, cold starts and stopping locations could become very much part of your "driving license", even the HUD could become part of it, maybe with less parts showing as your experience grows so you end up HUDless for maximum points.

    Admittedly it may be too much for some, but I bet there would be those would would love to produce the best one brake application stop from high speed into a station without any assistance and stop within a meter of the stop boards...
     
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  29. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    I dont think any of us want to be sitting in front of the screen for an hour waiting for an AI train to clear the track.

    But maybe 5-10 minutes...

    D
     
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  30. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    A competing product has a nice solution to it - you can turn it on or off. As well, you can set the % value for the maximum possible deviations.

    temp.png

    PS The difference between having this option and not having it is like the difference between life and death :D This would take TSW to a whole new level of gaming experience and satisfaction. I am very happy, DTG is slowly starting to think about it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 11, 2021
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  31. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you could have the option of trains randomly breaking down turned off then.
     
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  32. Richard CZE

    Richard CZE Well-Known Member

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    It would be very useful for rail traffic management to be able to respond to different situations. I will be driving a slow freight train and ICE will follow me. Traffic management should move me to the sidelines so that ICE can overtake me. Then my train would continue on. This event might not always occur if my freight train ran on time. This is what a random event might look like.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2021
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  33. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    In Bus Simulator, every time you start a service, there might be some random event, like a bus stop being closed, or it being a bank holiday, so more people will be travelling. It isn't much, but it's interesting when something does happen.
     
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  34. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    If I've just done a full run of Bakerloo, got to Harrow and just after finishing the load passengers and preparing to go into the siding I get a screen saying "Game over. Points failure", I'm totally going to think "Wow this is such an amazing game I really want to play this again and I've totally not just wasted an hour of my life".

    There are April Fools workshop scenarios billed as full 40 minute or hour long runs and you open the doors and after they close you get a message saying "service cancelled". Funny the first time on April Fools' Day, not after the 50th time.

    I would be keen to support random events if it's as far as an AI train is being a bit slow, for example, or a passenger trips up as they get on the train, something that doesn't delay you by more than a couple minutes. Perhaps, very rarely, a line closure forcing you to do wrong line running, but then are we in scenario territory?
     
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  35. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking more a case of "there is a points failure ahead, you've now got to return back up the line as a shuttle service", and then you have to fight yellows back up to the end of the line where the service ends.
    And of course it's not "an hour wasted" if that hour was enjoyable and you get that big tick at the end
     
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  36. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Again, at this point we are into designed Scenario territory, not random auto-generated Timetable events.
     
  37. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I think the point is that timetable mode becomes a bit redundant if there's 40 services a day, all the same pattern, all the same lights and all you need to pay attention to is station stops. Knowing that the 14:40 service is all greens all the way makes Jack a dull boy
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2021
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  38. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    I think of small occurrences like "a door is not closing properly. Get out of the cab and close it manually."

    This would give a random incentive to get out and run along the train, plus it should not take that long as to completely throw you off your timetable.

    For freight, why not do something along the lines of a coupling appears to have come lose. Stop the train and decouple - couple the wagons anew.
    Though this would be horrible on steep inclines like spg and MSB
     
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  39. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Which can easily be stirred up simply by adding some +/- error into the AI trains' robot-like timetable precision, or, as you say, adding in some minor delays for the player train like that passenger who insists on bringing 12 suitcases and a reluctant dog aboard. But complete route-wrecking Major Delays like track blockages would fry the in-game dispatcher's little brain- to do those would require handcrafting, i.e. a scenario.
     
  40. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    They're all "scenarios" in a sense, but the scripted ones tend to have more calamities. Either way, ending a service early or breaking down before you even leave the depot is a frequent occurrence so having that replicated in game wouldn't be a complete escape
     
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  41. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    While that might be true for real life, I really don't see any benefit for your service breaking down before you even start (or having your service break down anywhere really). Why even bother in the first place?
     
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  42. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    For me I don't see much benefit in every light being green or every speed limit being maxed. I find myself watching youtube or browsing the forum waiting for something to actually happen that isn't "stop at the station 11 miles ahead"
     
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  43. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The difference is that scenarios are scripted- the devs work out what every train in the route is doing to allow for the nonstandard event.

    But as a random event that simply happens in service mode, that the in-game dispatcher will have to work out and re-route all the traffic? It couldn't handle it.
     
  44. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    A major part of the suggestion is that the dispatcher may well need to be updated to handle "what's actually there" rather than doing all it's working out at scenario load
     
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  45. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    At least you can play this way. Honestly I would kick this game in the bin if it randomly decided that my service was over. If I wanted that I could just quit in between and pretend my train exploded.

    You are right though in regards to the adverse signals, we have created a whole thread here where people list timetable runs that are interesting and differ from usual runs, like lots of traffic, many red signals, special tasks like dropping of freight between your start and endpoint.

    If they were to add anything to spice up timetable with random occurendes, I would be strongly against implementing anything that stops you dead in the tracks.
    Manually closing doors, getting sent to another track because an ai service has stopped, arriving on a different platform than usually, red signals due to "imaginary" roadworks or catenary problems that let you wait for around 2 minutes are all examples that enhance your experience with something interchangeable but not kicking you in the spleen when you just want to drive a service from start to finish because in between two stations your train brakes down and can't get any voltage anymore.
     
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  46. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    The matter is simple, DTG could copy solutions from competitors (and they work very well) and everyone would be happy. There is no need to reinvent the wheel.
     
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  47. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    But things like ARuscoe suggested like a track points failure could happen in reality in a normal service. A scenario is fully scripted and you know what will happen. Having everything green and nothing happen everytime you do a timetable service is simply unrealistic. Im sure you been on a train and had at least something happen that caused a delay in your journey at least once in your life. I know I've certainly have. I think that the reason why random events was the highest requested suggestion was due to the fact that driving a train with nothing happening along the way with green signals and opening/closing doors is simply unrealistic and gets boring after a while. Things do happen and as a Simulator, this game should have random events in the timetable mode of the game
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2021
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  48. Richard CZE

    Richard CZE Well-Known Member

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    Most services in 24-hour mode are the same. An example is DLC RSN. All freight trains end at Hagen hbf station on one track. There are a lot of unused tracks at that station. These services are copy / paste style. It would be enough to work more with individual services and give them more diversity. For personal services, I would welcome the occasional change of platform in order to make way for another train. These adjustments would not require any intervention within 24 hours. Then I would just start thinking about random events.
     
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  49. 66050

    66050 Active Member

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    Something like random temporary speed restrictions (TSR’s) could add even more immersion in the timetable services. You could even be provided with information of where the TSR is, and what the restriction is in the information box that’s shown when you spawn in!
     
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  50. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    While that is a valid point, the game's dispatcher AI couldn't possibly handle it. It would be great, sure- but the resulting game code would require a server farm to run.
     

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